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Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
#1226111
05/02/12 06:38 PM
05/02/12 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
Keith Black®
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
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I am looking at buying this (new) crankshaft. I've checked the spec-sheet etc from the seller and I am comfortable with it. As I don't have a reference part to check against (it's in the US and I am in Australia), I need to check if the flywheel flange will work for my combo or I can make it work. These are my only concerns & hopefully you guys can set me straight: 1. it doesn't have a step-register for flywheel .?. 2. doesn't have locating dowels for flywheel ? the bolts carry the entire locating load as well as clamping load is that ok? Sorry about pic quality. if anyone has pictures of std Hemi forged crank flywheel flange it'd be appreciated. otherwise i may have to go down a custom flywheel route to suit this crank. cheers, Darren  
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: Keith Black®]
#1226115
05/02/12 08:08 PM
05/02/12 08:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,588
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,588
Great Neck,LI,new york
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The register on your ATI is 2.25 and the register on the blower pullies are 2.00.You will need to open the the ID of the spacer deep enough for the spacer to be flat on the damper.
The crank needs the insert for the register.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: AndyF]
#1226116
05/02/12 08:11 PM
05/02/12 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,162
s e mich
ro23car
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,162
s e mich
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Quote:
Those cranks are usually not a good idea. Besides the flat flange, they often use a different keyway up front, and are usually super heavy. There was a post recently from a guy trying to figure out how to get a special damper made so it would fit the crank that he got a good deal on.
i have one in my engine i think my bobweight is 2385. the flange is thicker than a normal crank. so you have to either cut down the flange or the lugs on the conveter. i dont know what to tell you about a flywheel,in the end i dont have a problem using fueler cranks.
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: ro23car]
#1226117
05/02/12 08:43 PM
05/02/12 08:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
Keith Black®
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,212
QLD Australia
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the asking price for this crank is about the same as a new forged 4340 crank from crower. it isa great looking crank but is looking like hard work. so I am tossing up whether the strength difference is worth the effort for the things i will have to accommodate, like: -weight difference ?? -rear flywheel flange machining and/or custom flywheel etc -special balancer -any extra work required as a result of dealing with the above crank will need to be strong enough to handle infrequent use at 1,500hp & 1,200 ft/lbs. ?? &the 4340 may bolt straight in. D
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Darren Beale
Keith Black Racing Engines®
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: Keith Black®]
#1226119
05/02/12 08:55 PM
05/02/12 08:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,162
s e mich
ro23car
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,162
s e mich
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Quote:
the asking price for this crank is about the same as a new forged 4340 crank from crower. it isa great looking crank but is looking like hard work.
so I am tossing up whether the strength difference is worth the effort for the things i will have to accommodate, like:
-weight difference ??
-rear flywheel flange machining and/or custom flywheel etc
-special balancer
-any extra work required as a result of dealing with the above
crank will need to be strong enough to handle infrequent use at 1,500hp & 1,200 ft/lbs.
?? &the 4340 may bolt straight in.
D
no issues with my ati balancer. jus have the flange cut down. i have 1 in my engine and 1 spare.
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: Keith Black®]
#1226122
05/02/12 10:21 PM
05/02/12 10:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
I would get a K1 or Callies, the K1 is around 600.00 USD, the Callies is about double that if you are lucky to find one for that price. Tim
...Serious?
..a $600 crank in a $30k engine just doesn't "feel" right!
I may be wrong, any feedback on these cranks?
I handle the K-1 and Callies brands, as well as a few others, but before i could make a recommendation on a crankshaft, i'd want to know which power adder you'll be using to make 1500 HP and how much of it is the power adder vs. N/A ?
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: astjp2]
#1226124
05/02/12 10:57 PM
05/02/12 10:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,058
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I would get Callies, the K1 is around 830.00 USD, the Callies is about double that if you are lucky to find one for that price. Tim
Fixed
The K1 of today is no longer the K1 of yesterday, the K1 is now completely an offshore part including finish machining. 
Wayne Brewer has a NEW 4.5" Callies for sale in the race parts section
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: hemi-itis]
#1226125
05/02/12 11:47 PM
05/02/12 11:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,162
s e mich
ro23car
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,162
s e mich
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Quote:
By the time you get done with the bells & whistles,your better off with a billit crank and have no doubt  
i believe he is talking about a billet crank.
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: JohnRR]
#1226127
05/03/12 02:34 AM
05/03/12 02:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,141
A Red State
SNK-EYZ
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,141
A Red State
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Quote:
That is a fueler crank flange and it uses a flywheel like an earlier Hemi, they had a flywheel that was located by the OD of the flange.
I'm pretty sure KB sells an insert to give you a converter/flywheel register in the center or you could just make one when you get the crank .
Sounds like what you need is
I bought mine from Keith Black.
Quote:
Those cranks are usually not a good idea. Besides the flat flange, they often use a different keyway up front, and are usually super heavy. There was a post recently from a guy trying to figure out how to get a special damper made so it would fit the crank that he got a good deal on.
That would be me, the damper is supposed to arrive sometime today (Thursday).
The problem was that the crank (a Keith Black Billet) had 2, 1/4 inch key-ways cut in it (one at 90 degrees and at 270 degrees).
My engine builder said if I wanted to build it right, just order the custom made damper and be done with it.
Most people said broach a key-way at 0 degrees and silicone or epoxy the extra key-ways and use an off the shelf harmonic balancer.
He said, "No, it will leak oil from there!"
Since he's the expert building it, not me, I order the balancer.
Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: Keith Black®]
#1226128
05/03/12 08:22 AM
05/03/12 08:22 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,162
s e mich
ro23car
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,162
s e mich
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Quote:
Quote:
jus have the flange cut down. i have 1 in my engine and 1 spare.
Do you mean the rear flange? this is the spec:
Quote:
rear flange is 4.8125 diameter with a 2.0504 diameter x .140 deep counter bore and a .907 diameter x 1.125 deep pilot bearing hole
Do you know if the front /snout dimensions are standard on one of these cranks ?
Is it heavy at 2,450g?
My calculations for this scenario depending on my rod choice, dictate that the pistons + rings + pins + locks + oil with a compression height of between 1.375-1.575 and 35cc dome would weigh in at circa 935g to 1,025g.
Does this range sound about right ,or would the crank be too heavy?
thanks of your help
what you have to do is measure the thickness of the the rear flange,then have it cut to atch that of a regular crank. i have a automatic trans i made up the difference by cutting the lugs down on the converter.
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1226133
05/04/12 07:21 PM
05/04/12 07:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,145
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,145
Melbourne , Australia
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I would be weighing up how much time I was going to spend and any extra $$$ to get a crank like that to work for you. Weigh that up against a crank spec'd out for what you want. More often than not the fuel crank ends up costing more.
Alan Jones
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: Keith Black®]
#1226135
04/18/14 04:13 AM
04/18/14 04:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I am a big fan of center counter weights, which that crank has. If it isn't too much hassle, and it hasn't seen a lot of abuse, I would go with it. The stress it takes off the block is quite a bit. On top of that, you will be hard pressed to hurt it if it is new, or low use.
I had cap walk at 2432 bobweight. I put in a center weighted Crower crank and it went away. That was in a Mega block with cross bolts.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: gregsdart]
#1226136
04/18/14 10:25 AM
04/18/14 10:25 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
I am a big fan of center counter weights, which that crank has. If it isn't too much hassle, and it hasn't seen a lot of abuse, I would go with it. The stress it takes off the block is quite a bit. On top of that, you will be hard pressed to hurt it if it is new, or low use.
I had cap walk at 2432 bobweight. I put in a center weighted Crower crank and it went away. That was in a Mega block with cross bolts.
This crankshaft was something I ordered and is new. I'll pick it up later today, and then will decide what bushing I need.
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Re: Hemi crankshaft - rear flange
[Re: Keith Black®]
#1226137
04/18/14 12:10 PM
04/18/14 12:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
go green
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
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Quote:
Quote:
The depth of the backside(transmission side) of the crankshaft flange to the back of the block is different(longer) on the old top fuler cranks than the stock later model(1962 and up) cranks are   Several solutions as already mentioned, one not mention is a thin spacer plate between the trans and block to move the trans back from the crank flange 
any idea of what the difference is ..? maybe i could machine the flange thinner leaving a step register.
.100 " longer in the back and .100" in the front for a bryant fuel crank
As for the adapter rings
I called kb and he said that he has them in stock and is looking at one in his hand as we talked on the phone so I ordered it . I waited a month and a half and it still never recieved it , so I machined one my self . A week later the one from kb shows up
I think ATI sells the adapter also .
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I use to buy used Top fueler cranks like those, a lot of guys did in SO CA and use them in wedge motors, it takes some work and modifications to make them fit and work. That was before the cheaper Chinese imported cranks where available. I buy and use the forged 4340 Ohio brand stroker cranks now, they have the Hemi 8 bolt flange on them 
Maybe one of the machine shops or machinest can come up with that information 
If not try E mailing Kieth Black and ask them 
