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$20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
#1209961
04/05/12 12:36 AM
04/05/12 12:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 57
CT
440Kilmartin
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 57
CT
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69 roadrunner 4speed.....20dollar jegs loop.. with some extra bends bolted it to the cross member similar to the high dollar ones out there.
Save your money!
Last edited by 440Kilmartin; 04/05/12 12:40 AM.
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: OUTLAWD]
#1209968
04/05/12 09:12 PM
04/05/12 09:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Wonder if it will pass tech?
Fastest 300
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: Kevins493]
#1209970
04/05/12 09:33 PM
04/05/12 09:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
SCATPACK 1
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
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I didn't think it would hold up either. I would like it better if it had a brace to one of the seat bracket bolts
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: rickraw]
#1209974
04/06/12 12:56 AM
04/06/12 12:56 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,377
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,377
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
 after studing his pic again, i think the drive shaft bangin around in the hoop would catch the bolts & rip everything out. one way to find out would to try it. hope that wouldn't happen to anyone.
The loop part is a standard design, there are lots of cars driving around with driveshaft loops like that.
If a driveshaft banging around would rip the steel off the crossmember, it would be more likely to rip out the thin metal of the floorboards which is where they are typically attached.
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required *DELETED*
[Re: 440Kilmartin]
#1209976
04/06/12 02:18 AM
04/06/12 02:18 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: HPMike]
#1209977
04/06/12 09:59 AM
04/06/12 09:59 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,377
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,377
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
A driveshaft let go on one of the FAST RR's a while back. Broke the U joint at the front powershifting 1-2 on a 6"bias ply tire. Even with a properly installed, heavy duty loop(that did its job), it TORE UP the floors and crossmember and broke the transmission output shaft in two and shattered the tailhousing to pieces. You could probably hang 2500 pounds or more off a hardened 833 output shaft and not even bend it let alone break it...
MB
So all that damage happened because of (after) the driveshaft hitting the driveshaft loop? Sounds like the yoke got caught on the bolts inside the loop and torqued everything and broke it. For the driveshaft loop to rip the floor up, something more than a driveshaft rattling around inside it has to happen.
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required *DELETED*
[Re: Exit1965]
#1209978
04/06/12 10:08 AM
04/06/12 10:08 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: HPMike]
#1209979
04/06/12 11:37 AM
04/06/12 11:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,377
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,377
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A driveshaft let go on one of the FAST RR's a while back. Broke the U joint at the front powershifting 1-2 on a 6"bias ply tire. Even with a properly installed, heavy duty loop(that did its job), it TORE UP the floors and crossmember and broke the transmission output shaft in two and shattered the tailhousing to pieces. You could probably hang 2500 pounds or more off a hardened 833 output shaft and not even bend it let alone break it...
MB
So all that damage happened because of (after) the driveshaft hitting the driveshaft loop? Sounds like the yoke got caught on the bolts inside the loop and torqued everything and broke it. For the driveshaft loop to rip the floor up, something more than a driveshaft rattling around inside it has to happen.
You missed the point...
The loop didnt rip the floor up because it wasnt attached at the floor. The loop "contained" the shaft. Im sure it violently "danced" around inside the loop, but the shaft never fell. It bent up the the loop terribly, but it didnt break away. It was one of the US CARTOOL ones that bolts to the 4 bolts of the crossmember.
MB
I didn't think your story made any connection between the carnage of the RR you describe, and whether the OPs driveshaft loop will work. Maybe that wasn't your point, even though you said "Even with a properly installed, heavy duty loop" it tore up the floor and crossmember, which certainly sounds like you were suggesting that the strength/design of the driveshaft loop played a large role in the damage to the RR. If not, what was the point, and what does the properly installed, heavy duty driveshaft loop have to do with a torn up RR?
Maybe your main point was that hanging weight off something is not a good test, if so it was only made at the end of your example. Fair enough, but it hardly addresses whether OPs driveshaft loop would work as intended if a driveshaft fell into it.
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: RobX4406]
#1209983
04/06/12 01:20 PM
04/06/12 01:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I do like the idea of getting the inside nuts protruding on the inside out of the equation. I would agree the loop mentioned is better then nothing, just not by much. I am puzzled by those who are so adverse to drill a couple of holes, but have little worry about how much damage a DS can do with a combined 12"? overhanging/swinging yoke and u-joint at say 100 mph just under your seat. The rotating twisted mess will rip those arms off in less then a second (6000 rpms, thats 100rpms/hits). The design is IMO "very lacking" (edited) and may only serve the purpose of passing tech. Even the other guys hanging crossmember safety loop is as per designer NOT for competition use, and I give him  for admitting that.
Last edited by jcc; 04/06/12 02:09 PM.
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: jcc]
#1209984
04/06/12 03:26 PM
04/06/12 03:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 485
Raleigh, NC
j.mcconnell
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 485
Raleigh, NC
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Quote:
combined 12"? overhanging/swinging yoke and u-joint at say 100 mph just under your seat. The rotating twisted mess will rip those arms off in less then a second (6000 rpms, thats 100rpms/hits).
Don't most u-joints are going to break at the initial hit, not at speed? I guess you could damage it and have it hold on for a while.
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: jcc]
#1209990
04/07/12 08:32 AM
04/07/12 08:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
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Quote:
Don't most u-joints are going to break at the initial hit, not at speed? I guess you could damage it and have it hold on for a while.
Not all of them.
Many years ago I had a U-joint come apart just when I let off the throttle during a long overtaking action at the highway at a 'good rate of speed' (read: 100-110mph)...
The U-joint 'failure' could be traced back to my own stupid installation fault at the time, but luckily the driveshaft didn't entirely break loose from the transmission. The final result was a wrecked transmission with bend outputshaft and a carbottom covered in ATF.
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1209991
04/07/12 09:55 AM
04/07/12 09:55 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
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First off I've had 4 U joints break at speed . The 1st was on my 4 speed Challenger power shifting 3rd. It broke the bell housing off the block from vibration due to losing a cap. However the joint did not break and the shaft stayed in the car with no floor damage.The 2nd was at Budds Creak at the end of a 130 MPH pass. The front cap broke,not the joint. It broke the tail shaft. Shaft stayed in the car with no damage. The 3rd was driver error . He put my LBA valve body in 1st gear at 100+. It ripped the U-joint straps of the rear axle,so the shaft flung around pretty good.. The loop did its job,bent the mufflers some. I was able to get the shaft rebalanced at Dyno-tech. The 4th, a buddy driving his 66 Coronet down the X-way with no loop. The front joint broke. Ruined the shaft,came through the floor,broke the console,broke the tail shaft housing. But the best was the fact that most of the damage came from the output shaft of the 727 being bent at a 15 degree angle. As you can see from my experiences you never know the amount of damage. The damage could be to yourself. This is why I always plate the floor where the loop bolts.
Doug
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: sshemi]
#1209992
04/07/12 10:23 AM
04/07/12 10:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Quote:
My english is not good enough to explain why the loop doesnt need to be super strong. If the shaft breaks and is kept close to centerline it wont do much damage, if that makes any sence
Your communication skills are fine, but what many seem to overlook is not all DS failures are front u joint, they can be the rear joint, can be the front yoke, can be the DS itself, and can happen at any speed, since higher speeds cause greater runout, increasing chance of DS failure. If the failed DS was pristine and perfectly balanced, containing it inside a small perfect circle would be no big deal, but we are usually talking about a hugely unbalanced twisted 5'? long flexible tube, inside an oval, powered by a 3,000lb car accelerated by a 3-4:1 rear end, for hundreds of revolutions, and the mass is constantly increasing in diameter each revolution, extremely multiplying the forces. Hanging 200lbs on it as a test is like checking your timing with a wet finger.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: pacifica]
#1210001
01/28/13 01:29 AM
01/28/13 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Bolt it onto the crossmember with existing through bolts. Drop back of driveshaft and slide hoop up to bracket and bolt together.
Why do some of you guys insist on making them with such
a long lever arm.... that looks nice but you better
have a plate between it and your butt
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: hemi-itis]
#1210003
01/28/13 01:58 AM
01/28/13 01:58 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Been this way for 20 years 
I dont know if your rolling eyes were directed at me
or not but I even have a problem with yours... you
have what 1 bolt on each side 3/4 of the way out on
those long pieces of flat stock.... put a couple of
good bolts in CLOSE to the loop and cut 3/4 of that
wasted flat stock off
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1210004
01/28/13 11:41 AM
01/28/13 11:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
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No Raff,roll not directed at you.Recentley replaced the old one with a new one and just went into exsisting holes.The old loop was missing the top half and you have to get the whole kit so I just installed it complete. Guess I could shorten it up a tad 
HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: hemi-itis]
#1210005
01/28/13 12:53 PM
01/28/13 12:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
No Raff,roll not directed at you.Recentley replaced the old one with a new one and just went into exsisting holes.The old loop was missing the top half and you have to get the whole kit so I just installed it complete.
Guess I could shorten it up a tad
OK... if you bolt it in close you can cut a good bit
of that flat stock off and have it work better and
look better(I hope you have a top half on the new one)
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: FastmOp]
#1210009
01/28/13 03:13 PM
01/28/13 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Nice looking loops you guys built! I'd run either if I needed one.
Don't you like how this board looks at new ideas lol
Sorry... I look at them from a structural point..
do you think its wise to control a rotating item
thats way out of whack from 12"-14" away or right
next to it... you can use what ever floats your boat
but I was just trying to point out the reason it should
be closer
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: RobX4406]
#1210011
01/28/13 03:22 PM
01/28/13 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Satty,
Hold 5lbs in your hand.
Then grab one end of a 2 foot long piece of wood and put the 5 pounds on the other end... A bit harder to hold up.
Nothing wrong with your loops, just the suspended ring and the way it will lever against your attachment points. I'd find a way to solidly mount the ring so there is another attachment point than just the crossmember bolts.
Yep... like putting a bolt through the ring into the
floor pan with a reinforcement inside.... but that
takes drilling
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1210012
01/28/13 08:20 PM
01/28/13 08:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 602
N.E.Ohio
pacifica
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 602
N.E.Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Satty,
Hold 5lbs in your hand.
Then grab one end of a 2 foot long piece of wood and put the 5 pounds on the other end... A bit harder to hold up.
Nothing wrong with your loops, just the suspended ring and the way it will lever against your attachment points. I'd find a way to solidly mount the ring so there is another attachment point than just the crossmember bolts.
Yep... like putting a bolt through the ring into the
floor pan with a reinforcement inside.... but that
takes drilling
As much as I don't want to drill a hole in my floor 
I'm afraid I know that in order for the loop to have a chance
at being effective I'm gonna have to plate the floor at the top
like Mr P. says above 
My car is street car more than race car but I made more than
90 passes at the track last year [with NO loop] and I think I've
pushed my luck long enough.
Can't wait till this  is put away and this 
returns
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: Crizila]
#1210014
01/29/13 12:20 AM
01/29/13 12:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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Over the last 40 plus years of racing I have yet to break a front u joint, twisted off drive shafts,never broke a tail shaft , spread rear yokes, blew out lots of rear joints. That $20 dollar universal loop is all you need. NHRA says it must be mounted within 6" of the joint. Keep it centered at 6" from the Joint and the bolts won't catch and tear your stuff.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: $20 drive shaft loop no drilling required
[Re: rowin4]
#1210015
01/29/13 01:09 AM
01/29/13 01:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Over the last 40 plus years of racing I have yet to break a front u joint, twisted off drive shafts,never broke a tail shaft , spread rear yokes, blew out lots of rear joints. That $20 dollar universal loop is all you need. NHRA says it must be mounted within 6" of the joint. Keep it centered at 6" from the Joint and the bolts won't catch and tear your stuff.
I was gonna let this drop BUT I cant and Steve I'm
suprized you would say its good enough.... if the
front breaks(I've seen a few) and that thing bends
down, it will bend enough to allow the shaft to exit
the loop.... I guess none of you guys ever seen a
car pole vault... all he has to do is bolt the loop
to the floor on that design... that'll make it 100%
better
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