|
manual trans question
#1009081
06/08/11 11:15 AM
06/08/11 11:15 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
New York
EF8aar
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
New York
|
hello... I am looking for opinions on a shifting problem I have been having with my '70 'cuda. The rods appear to be installed and aligned correctly. With the car at rest, it appears I can reach all gears and reverse. However, while in motion going from 1st to 2nd is a problem. I can only get into 2nd gear intermittently and most of the time it won't go in. I can however, go from 1st to 3rd or 4th, then back into 2nd. I can also start out in 2nd. - The fluid is non-synthetic valvoline (or other) 80-90w. - The shifter was rebuilt by me with new internal parts and appears to be working well. - I also replaced the 1-2 operating lever because it had some play. I bought the car with the trans problem. My initial thoughts were a rod alignment, but after a closer look, I decided to rebuild the shifter. And while that made a big improvement, it didn't cure the 2nd gear problem. I have not pulled the sidecover, but at this point, I'm thinking 1-2 shifter fork???? Any thoughts would be very much appreciated, I'd like to drive this thing  . Thank you - Jerry
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009082
06/08/11 11:43 AM
06/08/11 11:43 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
|
Did you try adjusting the clutch?
Also is the fluid in the trans GL-4 or GL-5?
Last edited by Cuda340; 06/08/11 11:44 AM.
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: Cuda340]
#1009083
06/08/11 11:48 AM
06/08/11 11:48 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
New York
EF8aar
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
New York
|
Thank you for responding ..
No, I hadn't thought of adjusting the clutch. The car does not have an overcenter spring either, if that matters at all..
The fluid was in the trans when I bought the car. The prior owner told me it was valvoline 80-90w nothing further..
Last edited by EF8aar; 06/08/11 11:49 AM.
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: Cuda340]
#1009085
06/08/11 12:22 PM
06/08/11 12:22 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
New York
EF8aar
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
New York
|
It does not grind, it just will not go in. It will go into 2nd from 1st at a crawl, but under acceleration or any rate of speed about >5mph, it won't go in.
I do not know what type of clutch is in the car.
If I adjust the clutch, am I looking for a higher or lower pedal?
Thank you for your help
Last edited by EF8aar; 06/08/11 12:23 PM.
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009087
06/08/11 01:30 PM
06/08/11 01:30 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 105
Ontario, Canada
D149
member
|
member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 105
Ontario, Canada
|
I had the same problem with 3rd gear in my Road Runner, no grinding, it just wouldn't go into gear most of the time. I did the same thing as you, adjust rods and rebuild shifter, but neither fixed the problem. I pulled the trans and found the 3-4 synchro sleeve worn. I replaced it and it shifts perfectly now. Hope this helps.
1968 Valiant Signet 4dr. 273 4spd
1969 Road Runner 383 4spd
1969 Barracuda 318 auto
1970 Dart Swinger 340 4spd
1975 Cordoba 400-4bbl
1988 Caravelle 318 Auto
1999 Dakota R/T
2000 Viper GTS
2001 Ram 2500 Diesel 6spd
2018 Dodge Challenger GT (Winter beater!)
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009093
06/08/11 04:51 PM
06/08/11 04:51 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,936
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,936
Holly/MI
|
It may not be relevant but under really hard acceleration it can be hard to get it into 2nd gear dur to worn/loose motor mount insulators.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1009096
06/09/11 10:32 AM
06/09/11 10:32 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
|
Quote:
i had the problem a while back trying to shift at high rpm from 1st to 2nd,shifted ok just riding around, found the bushing in the crank was very tight(actually pulled out of crank when i removed the trans)so the syncs could not slow the speed of the shaft to shift.i put the roller bearing that fits where the conv snout goes and worked great. fixed the problem i had.
Good Point!!!
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009099
06/09/11 02:11 PM
06/09/11 02:11 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,862
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
|
Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,862
Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
Although if it is an 18 spline I believe you have to drop the cluster gear to remove tailshaft/stock.
Think about what you just said ... if you had to drop the cluster to get the taistock out that would mean it would also have to be dropped to put it back in. If so, how would you get the cluster shaft in after the tailstock is in ?!?!?! So no, you don't have to drop the cluster to get the tailstock out.
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: Stanton]
#1009100
06/09/11 02:22 PM
06/09/11 02:22 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
If so, how would you get the cluster shaft in after the tailstock is in ?!?!?!
If it were the case you would do it the same way you have to do it assembling an overdrive 833 
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: JohnRR]
#1009101
06/09/11 03:38 PM
06/09/11 03:38 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
Cuda340
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,367
Wheatfield, NY
|
Quote:
Quote:
If so, how would you get the cluster shaft in after the tailstock is in ?!?!?!
If it were the case you would do it the same way you have to do it assembling an overdrive 833
Exactly John... 
For some reason I thought you couldn't remove the main shaft without dropping the cluster on an 18-spline. maybe I am getting confused with the OD.
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: JohnRR]
#1009105
06/10/11 10:36 AM
06/10/11 10:36 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,862
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
|
Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,862
Ontario, Canada
|
John-boy, do you actually read the posts before you reply or do you just have a hard time with the english language ?!?!? Quote:
you can't get the cluster pin out the front even after you pull the key off the back as you are suggesting.
I never suggested that at all
Quote:
First off you are correct
Thank you John-boy ... this is one of the most intelligent statements you've made.
Quote:
and one would definitely not do it with the trans bolted to the bellhousing engine as you are suggesting the OP do because there is no way to push the cluster pin to the rear.
Never suggested that. In fact I actually stated why it couldn't be done but of course you didn't read that post!!
Quote:
But as far as dropping the cluster gear on an OD the manual tells you how to do it ... Unbolt the tailhousing , rotate it till you have clear access to the rear of the cluster pin , pull the soft plug from the front of the trans and push the pin out the back , the cluster gear drops down and the mainshaft is now easily able to be removed , repeat in reverse to assemble.
This would be logical to me, I wouldn't need a manual for this.
And since its just eating away at you, I called you a smarta$$ and that's all they editted out.
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: Stanton]
#1009106
06/10/11 10:42 AM
06/10/11 10:42 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
John-boy, do you actually read the posts before you reply or do you just have a hard time with the english language ?!?!?
Quote:
you can't get the cluster pin out the front even after you pull the key off the back as you are suggesting.
I never suggested that at all
Quote:
First off you are correct
Thank you John-boy ... this is one of the most intelligent statements you've made.
Quote:
and one would definitely not do it with the trans bolted to the bellhousing engine as you are suggesting the OP do because there is no way to push the cluster pin to the rear.
Never suggested that. In fact I actually stated why it couldn't be done but of course you didn't read that post!!
Quote:
But as far as dropping the cluster gear on an OD the manual tells you how to do it ... Unbolt the tailhousing , rotate it till you have clear access to the rear of the cluster pin , pull the soft plug from the front of the trans and push the pin out the back , the cluster gear drops down and the mainshaft is now easily able to be removed , repeat in reverse to assemble.
This would be logical to me, I wouldn't need a manual for this.
And since its just eating away at you, I called you a smarta$$ and that's all they editted out.
Stanton-girl nothing is eating away at me , I don't have a clue what your problem is ... well I have an idea but this is not the forum to hash that out in ... but you need to go back and reread what you said before you go accusing me of not being able to read or UNDERSTAND the English language ...
First you suggested this in your FIRST reply in this thread ...
Quote:
Pull the side cover, drop the driveshaft, yank the tailstock and replace all the brass rings, reassemble and drive it for years.
Sure sounds like you SUGGESTED to take the tailhousing and maingear assembly out with the trans still bolted to the bellhousing and installed in the car ... 
Then you asked this when going after another member in the post the mod edited , did the mod also edit the question you posed? ...
Quote:
tell me how you'd get the shaft out from the front - particularly since there's a key in the back !!!
Once again , sounds like you asked how to get the cluster pin out of the front of the transmission after pulling the key off it?
As an aside since the OD cluster pin is a slip fit into the front of the case I think one could push the pin out the front after getting the key off ???
If the only logical thing I said was that you were correct, don't worry, that won't happen again.
volley 
running up my post count some more .
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009109
06/13/11 09:38 AM
06/13/11 09:38 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
I assume the trans is still in the car , can't really see a lot from those pictures , there is evidence of a missed shift in there , don't know of any trans I have opened that didn't have that. The wear on the fork is from driving around with ones hand on the shifter and putting a little pressure on it, that is not causing your shifting problem. How is the downshift from second, when you can get it into it to first at speed greater than 5mph? Have you ever put it in 2nd, drove at speed and got on and off the throttle, if so does it pop out of second? How did the oil look when it came out? Can you get some sort of magnet in thru the side cover into the bottom and see if there is anything metal down there? For a test I would put a lighter oil in , maybe a mix of a GL4 oil and ATF  and see if the problem still persists. If so your only choice is to drop the trans and go thru it, but it's probably going to be a little more than just changing the brass. Pay particular attention to the condition of the syncro hubs, I rebuilt one that had ATF in it for I don't know how many miles, the cluster pin had significant wear and the inside of the slider hubs and the hubs themselves were all galled up and I spent a lot of time with a small stone cleaning them up, would have been easier to just replace them. You'll also want to take a dremel and small stone and dress down the teeth that the syncros engage , get points back on them.
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009112
06/13/11 10:00 AM
06/13/11 10:00 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Thank you for responding. Just a little history, I bought this car with this problem, test drove it and saw how sloppy the linkages were and also could hear a slight gear or bearing noise. When I got the car I adjusted the rods and saw little improvement so I decided to rebuild the shifter. That made a big difference, but I was still not able to reach second and still heard the noise.
Yes, the trans is still in the car. I never really tested second gear like you said. Because I was afraid to drive it with that noise. The oil looked super clean when I drained it. I have reason to believe it's got GL-5 in it, because that's pretty much all I saw on the shelves at 4 stores this weekend (special order??), so I'm thinking the person before me who filled it just grabbed that. I will try a magnet tonight..
I sincerely appreciate your help. Thank you!
I would do the fluid test as cheaply as possible , fill it with ATF , and confirm the clutch is adjusted correctly and go for a drive , but if it's making a noise I would think you should just pull it and rebuild it, just get it over with considering the fluid is drained already.
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: eds dart]
#1009119
06/13/11 03:02 PM
06/13/11 03:02 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
in the past when i had 4 speeds and i had problems with second gear i found the brass synchro split. the early (70 and earlier?) synchros were machined differently from later synchros. the later synchros were different and were stronger and didnt break near as often as early style synchros. seems i remember you change the synchro and its holder as an assembly. brewer probably sells a kit to do this conversion. the steel slider teeth and the gear teeth look preety good in the pictures, not a lot of wear for a gear box that always got beat on back in the day.
I scoop up cheap OD 4 speeds for this reason, take the syncro assemblies out and just buy a new 3/4 hub from one of the suppliers ...
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: JohnRR]
#1009120
06/13/11 03:37 PM
06/13/11 03:37 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,285
Ohio
64dodge572
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,285
Ohio
|
The trans in question has the 70 and newer style syncro assemblies. The rings will still wear even if they haven't been abused. Just might be time for a new set.  Dan
Brewers Performance Inc. 4-speed transmission and parts specialists PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259 FAX 937-947-4419 www.brewersperformance.com
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: Cuda340]
#1009122
06/15/11 04:05 PM
06/15/11 04:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
I had another thought. Is the reverse ball detent intact? A missing ball will cause the reverse gear to float over and lock 2nd gear. 
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009124
06/16/11 01:55 AM
06/16/11 01:55 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Thanks for responding. I didn't have a chance to get under the car tonight. But one thing comes to mind when you mention the reverse ball detent. I noticed there is no 'click' or positive position for the reverse arm. While I was adjusting the rods I just positioned the lever to the forward position as far as it would go.
Should there be a 'click' or detent when the lever is correctly in reverse? Without a 'click' would I assume the ball may be missing? There is RTV on the bolt at the detent area, so someone's been in there.
There should definitely be a detent , disconnect the reverse lever from the trans and rotate the part it bolted to on the trans , if you have no detent you have a problem there . Pull just the outer bolt , pull the spring and put a magnet down the hole to retrieve the ball , if there is no ball you may have found the problem .
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: Cuda340]
#1009129
06/17/11 12:01 AM
06/17/11 12:01 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
New York
EF8aar
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 149
New York
|
Quote:
I had another thought. Is the reverse ball detent intact? A missing ball will cause the reverse gear to float over and lock 2nd gear.
Well, I checked it tonight and found a spring but no ball. I used a magnet and even a mirror and didn't see a ball. So I guess it's safe to say, it's not in there. And, maybe, maybe this is the first step at getting this problem solved. I guess the next logical thing is to order up a ball, gasket, and side cover gasket. Should I replace anything else while I'm in there?
Thank you 
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009133
06/19/11 10:18 AM
06/19/11 10:18 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
So I went back under the car tonight doing some clean-up and I thought I'd feel around the bottom of the trans for any metal, and what do you know...... the ball!!
So for the heck of it, I assembled the reverse detent mechanism and the reverse arm now has the detents .... now I have to wonder why the ball was at the bottom of the trans...
more than likely someone pulled or installed the detent housing incorrectly , it has to go in and come out in a certain order or the ball ends up in the bottom of the case .
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: EF8aar]
#1009135
06/19/11 11:08 PM
06/19/11 11:08 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,824
MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,824
MI, usa
|
Quote:
So I went back under the car tonight doing some clean-up and I thought I'd feel around the bottom of the trans for any metal, and what do you know...... the ball!!
So for the heck of it, I assembled the reverse detent mechanism and the reverse arm now has the detents .... now I have to wonder why the ball was at the bottom of the trans...
I wondered about this when 1st reading this post. If the detent is removed in the car and the lever gets moved the ball can fall in. This will cause the problem you have. Do'nt ask how I know about it.
Doug
|
|
|
Re: manual trans question
[Re: dvw]
#1009136
06/20/11 09:41 AM
06/20/11 09:41 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
Quote:
So I went back under the car tonight doing some clean-up and I thought I'd feel around the bottom of the trans for any metal, and what do you know...... the ball!!
So for the heck of it, I assembled the reverse detent mechanism and the reverse arm now has the detents .... now I have to wonder why the ball was at the bottom of the trans...
I wondered about this when 1st reading this post. If the detent is removed in the car and the lever gets moved the ball can fall in. This will cause the problem you have. Don't ask how I know about it.
Doug
The ball is held in place by the big hollow bolt that goes in the trans case first which holds the ball and spring in place, if you remove it without first pulling the ball and spring the ball, and probably the spring, falls into the trans .
|
|
|
|
|
I'm a little disappointed that it was edited by a mod because I enjoy reading the venom you 
I want to thank all of you for making my trans fix an easy one. I put a new reverse detent ball in, and filled the trans with GL-4 rated oil and the problem is gone. The trans shifts great and I have no problem getting into second!! 