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manual trans question #1009081 06/08/11 11:15 AM 06/08/11 11:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York EF8aar OP member
EF8aar OP member Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York	hello... I am looking for opinions on a shifting problem I have been having with my '70 'cuda. The rods appear to be installed and aligned correctly. With the car at rest, it appears I can reach all gears and reverse. However, while in motion going from 1st to 2nd is a problem. I can only get into 2nd gear intermittently and most of the time it won't go in. I can however, go from 1st to 3rd or 4th, then back into 2nd. I can also start out in 2nd. - The fluid is non-synthetic valvoline (or other) 80-90w. - The shifter was rebuilt by me with new internal parts and appears to be working well. - I also replaced the 1-2 operating lever because it had some play. I bought the car with the trans problem. My initial thoughts were a rod alignment, but after a closer look, I decided to rebuild the shifter. And while that made a big improvement, it didn't cure the 2nd gear problem. I have not pulled the sidecover, but at this point, I'm thinking 1-2 shifter fork???? Any thoughts would be very much appreciated, I'd like to drive this thing . Thank you - Jerry

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009082 06/08/11 11:43 AM 06/08/11 11:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY Cuda340 top fuel
Cuda340 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY	Did you try adjusting the clutch? Also is the fluid in the trans GL-4 or GL-5? Last edited by Cuda340; 06/08/11 11:44 AM.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Cuda340] #1009083 06/08/11 11:48 AM 06/08/11 11:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York EF8aar OP member
EF8aar OP member Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York	Thank you for responding .. No, I hadn't thought of adjusting the clutch. The car does not have an overcenter spring either, if that matters at all.. The fluid was in the trans when I bought the car. The prior owner told me it was valvoline 80-90w nothing further.. Last edited by EF8aar; 06/08/11 11:49 AM.

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009084 06/08/11 12:04 PM 06/08/11 12:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY Cuda340 top fuel
Cuda340 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY	Does it grind or not go in to 2nd? Also adjustment of the clutch may help with the input shaft not spinning. If the oil is not GL-4 spec the slider won't grab the syncro as good as it should and it will be tough to shift. Just a couple of quick things to look at, before you tear into the trans. As far as the overhead spring being gone if it is a diaphram style clutch the it is supposed to be gone.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Cuda340] #1009085 06/08/11 12:22 PM 06/08/11 12:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York EF8aar OP member
EF8aar OP member Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York	It does not grind, it just will not go in. It will go into 2nd from 1st at a crawl, but under acceleration or any rate of speed about >5mph, it won't go in. I do not know what type of clutch is in the car. If I adjust the clutch, am I looking for a higher or lower pedal? Thank you for your help Last edited by EF8aar; 06/08/11 12:23 PM.

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009086 06/08/11 12:50 PM 06/08/11 12:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY Cuda340 top fuel
Cuda340 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY	Actually you want to measure the air gap between the clutch disc and/or the flywheel or pressure plate with the pedal fully pressed in. It should be about .060" or so for the proper clearance. The higher the pedal goes the more stroke and the more clearance will be gained.

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009087 06/08/11 01:30 PM 06/08/11 01:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 105 Ontario, Canada D D149 member
D149 member D Joined: Nov 2010 Posts: 105 Ontario, Canada	I had the same problem with 3rd gear in my Road Runner, no grinding, it just wouldn't go into gear most of the time. I did the same thing as you, adjust rods and rebuild shifter, but neither fixed the problem. I pulled the trans and found the 3-4 synchro sleeve worn. I replaced it and it shifts perfectly now. Hope this helps. 1968 Valiant Signet 4dr. 273 4spd 1969 Road Runner 383 4spd 1969 Barracuda 318 auto 1970 Dart Swinger 340 4spd 1975 Cordoba 400-4bbl 1988 Caravelle 318 Auto 1999 Dakota R/T 2000 Viper GTS 2001 Ram 2500 Diesel 6spd 2018 Dodge Challenger GT (Winter beater!)

Re: manual trans question [Re: D149] #1009088 06/08/11 01:50 PM 06/08/11 01:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York EF8aar OP member
EF8aar OP member Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York	both of you have brought me great advise... thank you I will try adjusting the clutch, then if that dosen't do it I'll pull the cover and take a peak inside. Is is possible to see if the synchro sleeve is worn just from pulling the cover?

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009089 06/08/11 03:13 PM 06/08/11 03:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY Cuda340 top fuel
Cuda340 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY	I am assuming by the syncro sleeve he is refering to the slider. If so you can see if the ends are all chewed up, but more than likely it will be the brass syncro itself. The brass syncros are made to be sacrificial (brass is softer than steel) make sure all the dog teeth of the syncro are good and all the dog teeth on the gear are good. The should be sharp looking not with a smooth face. It sounds to me like the syncro is not grabbing the gear enough and that can be due to the oil not being GL-4 rated. If it is GL-5 it has too many friction modifiers in it and it is too slippery and won't let the syncro grab the gear hub. Hope this helps.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Cuda340] #1009090 06/08/11 03:40 PM 06/08/11 03:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York EF8aar OP member
EF8aar OP member Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York	This is good... Ok, so if I understand you correctly, I should check condition of the dog teeth of the syncro and all the dog teeth on the gear. If they look good, perhaps a change of fluid to a GL-4 type could solve it? I think I will check the clutch as you said earlier and revisit my linkage one more time before cracking the case. Thank you!

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009091 06/08/11 04:03 PM 06/08/11 04:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY Cuda340 top fuel
Cuda340 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY	Yes sir. that's it. I would even try and change the fluid before cracking the case, it's easier and it might just work.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Cuda340] #1009092 06/08/11 04:43 PM 06/08/11 04:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York EF8aar OP member
EF8aar OP member Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York	excellent Thank you!

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009093 06/08/11 04:51 PM 06/08/11 04:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI	It may not be relevant but under really hard acceleration it can be hard to get it into 2nd gear dur to worn/loose motor mount insulators. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: manual trans question [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1009094 06/08/11 05:28 PM 06/08/11 05:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada	My vote goes to a bad syncro. If fluid was the problem it would likely be an issue with all gears, not just second !! Clutch ... shouldn't be an issue if you have about an inch of freeplay in the pedal. Ideally the syncro teeth should all be sharp - both the steel and the brass. However, I've had a few trannys with bad steel teeth and they've all worked fine once new brass rings were installed. The problem with replacing the "steel" parts is the extent and expense. Its one thing to replace a slider/ring assembly but they're only half the equation ... the other half is the syncro teeth on each gear! If they're worn on the slider then the corresponding teeth on the gear should be shot too! Start replacing all the steel parts that have worn teeth and you may as well buy a new trans! Pull the side cover, drop the driveshaft, yank the tailstock and replace all the brass rings, reassemble and drive it for years.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Stanton] #1009095 06/08/11 07:09 PM 06/08/11 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,233 fredericksburg,va C cudaman1969 master
cudaman1969 master C Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,233 fredericksburg,va	i had the problem a while back trying to shift at high rpm from 1st to 2nd,shifted ok just riding around, found the bushing in the crank was very tight(actually pulled out of crank when i removed the trans)so the syncs could not slow the speed of the shaft to shift.i put the roller bearing that fits where the conv snout goes and worked great. fixed the problem i had.

Re: manual trans question [Re: cudaman1969] #1009096 06/09/11 10:32 AM 06/09/11 10:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY Cuda340 top fuel
Cuda340 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY	Quote: i had the problem a while back trying to shift at high rpm from 1st to 2nd,shifted ok just riding around, found the bushing in the crank was very tight(actually pulled out of crank when i removed the trans)so the syncs could not slow the speed of the shaft to shift.i put the roller bearing that fits where the conv snout goes and worked great. fixed the problem i had. Good Point!!!

Re: manual trans question [Re: Stanton] #1009097 06/09/11 10:34 AM 06/09/11 10:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY Cuda340 top fuel
Cuda340 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY	Quote: My vote goes to a bad syncro. If fluid was the problem it would likely be an issue with all gears, not just second !! Clutch ... shouldn't be an issue if you have about an inch of freeplay in the pedal. Ideally the syncro teeth should all be sharp - both the steel and the brass. However, I've had a few trannys with bad steel teeth and they've all worked fine once new brass rings were installed. The problem with replacing the "steel" parts is the extent and expense. Its one thing to replace a slider/ring assembly but they're only half the equation ... the other half is the syncro teeth on each gear! If they're worn on the slider then the corresponding teeth on the gear should be shot too! Start replacing all the steel parts that have worn teeth and you may as well buy a new trans! Pull the side cover, drop the driveshaft, yank the tailstock and replace all the brass rings, reassemble and drive it for years. Another Good Point!!! Although if it is an 18 spline I believe you have to drop the cluster gear to remove tailshaft/stock. Last edited by Cuda340; 06/09/11 10:42 AM.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Cuda340] #1009098 06/09/11 11:48 AM 06/09/11 11:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York EF8aar OP member
EF8aar OP member Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 149 New York	I took a closer overall look at the trans last night. I see evidence of a fresh pinkish color RTV most notibly at the reverse detent bolt area. Therefore, I think this box has been opened and I'll need to pull the cover to see what's going on. Thank you for all the excellent responses

Re: manual trans question [Re: EF8aar] #1009099 06/09/11 02:11 PM 06/09/11 02:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada	Quote: Although if it is an 18 spline I believe you have to drop the cluster gear to remove tailshaft/stock. Think about what you just said ... if you had to drop the cluster to get the taistock out that would mean it would also have to be dropped to put it back in. If so, how would you get the cluster shaft in after the tailstock is in ?!?!?! So no, you don't have to drop the cluster to get the tailstock out.

Re: manual trans question [Re: Stanton] #1009100 06/09/11 02:22 PM 06/09/11 02:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: If so, how would you get the cluster shaft in after the tailstock is in ?!?!?! If it were the case you would do it the same way you have to do it assembling an overdrive 833

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