Yeah they've been beat up a fair amt (on here) but we are (pretty much) about posting probs to be solved rather than noting how many houses Jimmy Carter built in a given year. The salesman was nervous when he picked up the ph as I did punch in 1167 1st but when I started conversing he calmed down when realized I was not a telemarketer nor was intending to get in his a$$. As a person who spends more time than I am comfortable admitting to in Harbor Freight I have no significant prob w China stuff and tho I am as patriotic as the next guy (I think), but so much stuff is being outsourced these days that I'm (pretty much ) used to it & am (much) more concerned with getting quality & that is declining everywhere.