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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: shoebox]
#987190
05/06/11 03:26 PM
05/06/11 03:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,499
PA
moparacer
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,499
PA
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On the burnout, start in second and shift to high, come out of the water and don't let the tires grab hard...
Pretty much it...
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: moparacer]
#987193
05/06/11 04:00 PM
05/06/11 04:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Quote:
On the burnout, start in second and shift to high, come out of the water and don't let the tires grab hard...
Pretty much it...
This is wrong.
Your automatic will start out in 1st by itself. Therefore you must start in low to apply the band, then go in to 2nd and don't look back.
I've got alot of runs on mine, same same, and still works like day one.  (10 yrs, 4 championships...blah blah)
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: shoebox]
#987194
05/06/11 04:03 PM
05/06/11 04:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Leave in manual low?
No, put the shifter in second then hit the pedal pretty
good... its going to start out in low then it'll
shift on its own pretty quick then get the revs up
a bit more and then shift into drive... let it burn
forward a few feet then back off the pedal... pull to
the line... you can manually shift it if you want or
put it in drive... your choice
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#987195
05/06/11 04:12 PM
05/06/11 04:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Leave in manual low?
No, put the shifter in second then hit the pedal pretty
good... its going to start out in low then it'll
shift on its own pretty quick then get the revs up
a bit more and then shift into drive... let it burn
forward a few feet then back off the pedal... pull to
the line... you can manually shift it if you want or
put it in drive... your choice
I don't agree with this(Respectfully) because you will be starting out against the sprag alone. Put in low and you will apply the low band, therefore helping the sprag hold all of the torque you are putting to it , trying to get the tires lit.
Remember, this is not a mv body.
Please explain if I'm off base here. 
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: RemCharger]
#987196
05/06/11 04:31 PM
05/06/11 04:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,499
PA
moparacer
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,499
PA
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With an hand grenade 727 if I COULDNT start out in second, I would switch to a manual valve body that COULD... All I am saying....
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: shoebox]
#987197
05/06/11 04:37 PM
05/06/11 04:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
I need the cheaper option.
The CHEAPER ... in the long run .... is a aftermarket front drum. THEN the trans can NOT blow-up. The sprag might still fail .... but then all you have to R&R is that one item.
IF you go the route of all then fancy shields and blankets .... the problem then ... is IF the trans blows-up and then is successfully contained .... the trans then is TOAST ...and maybe even the converter.
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: RemCharger]
#987198
05/06/11 04:59 PM
05/06/11 04:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Leave in manual low?
No, put the shifter in second then hit the pedal pretty
good... its going to start out in low then it'll
shift on its own pretty quick then get the revs up
a bit more and then shift into drive... let it burn
forward a few feet then back off the pedal... pull to
the line... you can manually shift it if you want or
put it in drive... your choice
I don't agree with this(Respectfully) because you will be starting out against the sprag alone. Put in low and you will apply the low band, therefore helping the sprag hold all of the torque you are putting to it , trying to get the tires lit.
Remember, this is not a mv body.
Please explain if I'm off base here.
i'm with remcharger on this. anything you can do to protect the sprag should be implemented. manual low may seem redundant if it jumps right into second, but weird things happen. a lot of stuff blows up in the burnout box. i ran an automatic valve body for a long time, and i always started in manual low, whether in the burnout box, or on the track.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: maximum entropy]
#987199
05/06/11 05:23 PM
05/06/11 05:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
kissmyaspen
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
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I had a auto V/B in mine for a couple years. put it in 2 and put it to the wood till it hits second then come out of the water.. and if your going to shift it, start in first and go through the gears.. the stock drums went through a lot during the 60's and 70's in top fuel cars... and i have only seen 2 come apart that rally blew up...   so drive it like u stole it.  By the way what combo you have?
79 Dodge Aspen
12.265 at 109.75 MPH
67 Satellite NSS/E
11.83 @ 110
1968 Plymouth Road Runner 472 Hemi
3 time MOPAR NATIONALS CHAMP '03 FWD and '06 & '09 Street.
'07, '10, '12 Mopar Nats runner-up Street.
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: shoebox]
#987201
05/06/11 10:42 PM
05/06/11 10:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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To the best of my knowledge, the Transgo TF-2 (auto vb) is NOT a low-band apply modification. To get the low band to apply, you still have to manually shift the trans into low. For this reason, I would always manually shift the trans into low when starting a burnout, OR and especially when launching the car. Otherwise, you're relying on the sprag to hold 1st gear. (at least this is how my trans builder explained it to me...  ) I have the TF-2 vb. I start my burnout in 1st and quickly move to second as soon as I get the tires rotating along. Try to avoid "catching" the tires while still under power when pulling out. This procedure seems to be working for my 727.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: dOrk !]
#987202
05/06/11 11:32 PM
05/06/11 11:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
cbarracuda
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
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Quote:
Quote:
I need the cheaper option.
The CHEAPER ... in the long run .... is a aftermarket front drum. THEN the trans can NOT blow-up. The sprag might still fail .... but then all you have to R&R is that one item.
Are you sure? Have been racing so many years with factory drums
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: cbarracuda]
#987203
05/07/11 12:42 AM
05/07/11 12:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Are you sure? Have been racing so many years with factory drums
I too have also had good-luck with the OEM drums ... but I have never broken a sprag. And to be perfectly honest ...I potentially have a WORSEer problem than 99.9% of the others ... I drilled the band surface THROUGH TO THE CLUTCHES (like a vented rotor) as an experiment way back when. If my sprag failed ...I am sure that my drum would come-apart sooner(lower RPM) than a stocker.
And the more I think about all this ... the more I am thinking about changing THAT DRUM before I see any other drag-strip or street action. It is a 65 trans in my 62 ..and that stuff is getting harder to find now..... ESPECIALLY that 65 Race Hemi converter.
THAT THING has been a sweetheart. SOMETHING about that converter has me keeping putting that back in the car for years ...even though I had a good Fairbanks WD deal ...way-back-when .... 
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: shoebox]
#987204
05/07/11 01:01 AM
05/07/11 01:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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How you do your burn out will depend on how your trans is set up. I run a 727 with a 4 clutch steel front drum and a Turbo-Action Cheetah Pro street valve body - has low band apply and will upshift automatically in drive. I pull in to the water in drive ( 1st gear ). With the line lock on, I dip in to the throttle and let the trans upshift in to 3rd. I then release the line lock and feed in more throttle as the car powers out of the water - sometimes referred to as a "power burn out". As the tires get traction and the motor starts to lug down, I ease out of the throttle around 20 feet in front of the staging lights. As I come to a stop, I dump it in neutral, give it a blip or two to make sure the motor is clean and the secondary squirters are fuel charged, and I am ready to go. Again, this is just my proceedure. http://s79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/jcailey/?action=view¤t=MOV01123.mp4
Fastest 300
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: Crizila]
#987205
05/07/11 01:17 AM
05/07/11 01:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
cbarracuda
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 415
Peru
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: CrazyD]
#987208
05/07/11 10:29 AM
05/07/11 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
If it was a MANUAL valve body 727, burnout should start in what gear?
2nd or high gear... if you have a light car or plenty
of power just start in high... your trying to get
heat into them and the faster tire RPM does it quicker
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: maximum entropy]
#987209
05/07/11 06:08 PM
05/07/11 06:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,786
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,786
Rio Linda, CA
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Quote:
i'm with remcharger on this. anything you can do to protect the sprag should be implemented. manual low may seem redundant if it jumps right into second, but weird things happen. a lot of stuff blows up in the burnout box.
Yep, and it's not always the first incorrect burnout or the second or....but it's the accumulated abuse of the sprag that can eventually lead to failure.
Simply stated, spinning the tires in water doesn't fully load the sprag, if the sprag doesn't see a load at the rear wheels the rollers won't fully seat and partially seated rollers can skid and get flat spots worn on them leading to failure.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: fishy340]
#987211
05/07/11 09:03 PM
05/07/11 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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So, curious.... exactly what WILL it hurt by starting the tires turning in 1st before going to second? Is it the gear change unloaded? (Explain this to me like I'm the village idiot)
My car is a low 12-second street car with a TF-2 kit. I pretty much shift it manually all the time though. The way I understand it, by engaging 1st gear manually, I am applying the low gear band. It seems that this would only make things stronger... (????). Why is this not true?
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: Twostick]
#987213
05/07/11 10:30 PM
05/07/11 10:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Doc Fiberglass I don't know that your drilled drum is any more dangerous than a stock one. Here is my theory... The surface of the drum is lighter and therefore may not have as much force trying to throw it apart upon a sprag failure.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: Leon441]
#987214
05/07/11 10:37 PM
05/07/11 10:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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As far as I know the only Valve Bodies that do not apply the band in low gear are aftermarket race versions that deleted this function.
If I were running a "Shift Kit Valve body" I would probably start in 2nd as Pbody suggested. The reason right or wrong is your trans is still going to start off in 1st no matter what you do. So at least it will cause the sprag to seat the rollers where if you are in low, you are applying the band and not seating the sprag. A manual rear band apply valve body would be a better route. A few hundred for a front drum that will not blow, even better. I would say a low power combo may not be threatened by a sprag failure, BUT.... I have seen a 4WD pickup out playing in the mud blow a tranny up. So it can happen. A blanket can be used but you will still bend up the floor board.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: moparacer]
#987217
05/08/11 01:30 AM
05/08/11 01:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Quote:
On the burnout, start in second and shift to high, come out of the water and don't let the tires grab hard...
Pretty much it...
 this is correct. your trans will live by it. 
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: robnbird]
#987218
05/08/11 04:36 AM
05/08/11 04:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 214
Hamburg / Germany
Den300
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 214
Hamburg / Germany
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I use the Cope Pro Street Automatic valve Body with Low Band Apply and asked Cope
in what ear to burn. His answer: First. Maybe it depends on the valve body?
Hamburg/Germany
69 Chrysler 300
446cui Dual Quad
12.64 @ 110.7
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: FurryStump]
#987220
05/08/11 09:55 PM
05/08/11 09:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 230
DragtimeDodge
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 230
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I published an article on The Dragtime News about the 'burnouts' part of this question. You can find "Burnouts 101: Heat Your Tires Without Beating Your Parts" halfway down on the Home page.
Last edited by DragtimeDodge; 05/08/11 09:58 PM.
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: DragtimeDodge]
#987221
05/08/11 11:49 PM
05/08/11 11:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
I published an article on The Dragtime News about the 'burnouts' part of this question. You can find "Burnouts 101: Heat Your Tires Without Beating Your Parts" halfway down on the Home page.
" Every vehicle is unique. Once you learn what the vehicle requires, operate on the minimal side". Some good points in the article. We over do the burn-outs ( agree )- Of course we all aren't running MT tires ether, and all tracks arent prepped the same. My 1,2,3 and roll out of the water works real good for me and my set up. My car shifts automaticaly ( in drive) from first to 3rd within around 2 seconds ( still in the water ). I'm usually off the line lock in about 4 seconds and I'm usually done around 6 seconds or less. Never have to go full throttle and I'm off the pedal and in neutral just before the car comes to a stop. Since my car shifts automatically in drive, it's just one less thing I have to do ( shift )during a burn out, and it makes them just that much more repeatable. As I said in a previous post in this thread, this is just how I do it. I'm comfortable with it and I think my drive train is too.
Fastest 300
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: Den300]
#987222
05/09/11 12:18 AM
05/09/11 12:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#987223
05/09/11 01:52 AM
05/09/11 01:52 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 446
oregon
savoyracer
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 446
oregon
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Quote:
So, curious.... exactly what WILL it hurt by starting the tires turning in 1st before going to second?  .......YOUR FEET !! 
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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure
[Re: Mopar-Al]
#987227
05/10/11 09:44 PM
05/10/11 09:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Seems everyone says to do your heat up in the water box. I don't think anyone goes 1st 2nd and 3rd in the water. You pull in , spin the tires over once, pull out of the water box, then proceed to heat the tires up. If you do your burn out in the water box, then your wheel tubs can drip water down on the track and your tires, causing havok. I believe most everyone that made a post in your thread does this, but are not making it clear for you. It also does not take long to heat a tire up. Only 5 or 6 seconds usually gets them sticky and soft.
I have yet to run accross a starter that stops you in the water to do a burn out. He doesn't care about your wheel wells dripping water, but he sure doesn't want any water outside the box on his track. That being said, I always double check where he stops me to do a burnout with a reference point along the track ( sign on the fence, etc ). First thing I do when racing at a new track - besides watching how the starter is lining up cars. As I have said, my burnout takes about 6 seconds - and there is a video somewhere in this thread that proves it
Fastest 300
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When you do a burnout correctly, it is not a violent experience.
You definitely need a blanket or a shield.Ask Don Garlits 1/2 of his foot gone. If you use a trans brake start your burnout in 2nd gear then to 3rd. as you start moving out of the water and the tires move to dry surface let off of the throttle. don't accelerate in first let off and hammer it again. 
. Tail housing gasket looks reuseable.
