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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: maximum entropy] #987209
05/07/11 06:08 PM
05/07/11 06:08 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Quote:

i'm with remcharger on this. anything you can do to protect the sprag should be implemented. manual low may seem redundant if it jumps right into second, but weird things happen. a lot of stuff blows up in the burnout box.




Yep, and it's not always the first incorrect burnout or the second or....but it's the accumulated abuse of the sprag that can eventually lead to failure.

Simply stated, spinning the tires in water doesn't fully load the sprag, if the sprag doesn't see a load at the rear wheels the rollers won't fully seat and partially seated rollers can skid and get flat spots worn on them leading to failure.


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Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: John_Kunkel] #987210
05/07/11 07:08 PM
05/07/11 07:08 PM
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LONG ISLAND
fishy340 Offline
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on any converter or even my ati 727,and on ford trannys also..(it always has a warning NEVER START BURN OUT IN 1ST GEAR)get tires wet,roll out to where the water stops,2nd gear hit peddle when tires spin...shift to 3rd and hold 4000 to 5000 rpm atleast with a high hp motor

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: fishy340] #987211
05/07/11 09:03 PM
05/07/11 09:03 PM
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Puyallup, WA
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StealthWedge67 Offline
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So, curious.... exactly what WILL it hurt by starting the tires turning in 1st before going to second? Is it the gear change unloaded? (Explain this to me like I'm the village idiot)

My car is a low 12-second street car with a TF-2 kit. I pretty much shift it manually all the time though. The way I understand it, by engaging 1st gear manually, I am applying the low gear band. It seems that this would only make things stronger... (????). Why is this not true?


LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: StealthWedge67] #987212
05/07/11 09:50 PM
05/07/11 09:50 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,563
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Unless you are running a MVB you are starting in 1st anyway so you are right, putting it in 1 applies the band in addition to the roller clutch = stronger. What kills the roller clutch is a shock load like the tires spinning (no load) and then they dead hook at full power in 1st. That's why they say to get into 2nd or D ASAP and roll easy out of the throttle when you're done.

If you have a MVB AND enough power you can start in 2 or D and the roller clutch isn't in play.

Kevin

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: Twostick] #987213
05/07/11 10:30 PM
05/07/11 10:30 PM
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Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
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Doc Fiberglass I don't know that your drilled drum is any more dangerous than a stock one. Here is my theory... The surface of the drum is lighter and therefore may not have as much force trying to throw it apart upon a sprag failure.

Leon


Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: Leon441] #987214
05/07/11 10:37 PM
05/07/11 10:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
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As far as I know the only Valve Bodies that do not apply the band in low gear are aftermarket race versions that deleted this function.

If I were running a "Shift Kit Valve body" I would probably start in 2nd as Pbody suggested. The reason right or wrong is your trans is still going to start off in 1st no matter what you do. So at least it will cause the sprag to seat the rollers where if you are in low, you are applying the band and not seating the sprag. A manual rear band apply valve body would be a better route. A few hundred for a front drum that will not blow, even better. I would say a low power combo may not be threatened by a sprag failure, BUT.... I have seen a 4WD pickup out playing in the mud blow a tranny up. So it can happen. A blanket can be used but you will still bend up the floor board.

Leon


Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: Twostick] #987215
05/07/11 10:42 PM
05/07/11 10:42 PM
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Az
Crizila Offline
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Quote:

Unless you are running a MVB you are starting in 1st anyway so you are right, putting it in 1 applies the band in addition to the roller clutch = stronger. What kills the roller clutch is a shock load like the tires spinning (no load) and then they dead hook at full power in 1st. That's why they say to get into 2nd or D ASAP and roll easy out of the throttle when you're done.

If you have a MVB AND enough power you can start in 2 or D and the roller clutch isn't in play.

Kevin


Easy in - and easy out and she will be a happy camper When you do a burnout correctly, it is not a violent experience.


Fastest 300
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: shoebox] #987216
05/08/11 01:16 AM
05/08/11 01:16 AM
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robnbird Offline
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You definitely need a blanket or a shield.Ask Don Garlits 1/2 of his foot gone. If you use a trans brake start your burnout in 2nd gear then to 3rd. as you start moving out of the water and the tires move to dry surface let off of the throttle. don't accelerate in first let off and hammer it again.

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: moparacer] #987217
05/08/11 01:30 AM
05/08/11 01:30 AM
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robnbird Offline
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Quote:

On the burnout, start in second and shift to high, come out of the water and don't let the tires grab hard...

Pretty much it...


this is correct. your trans will live by it.

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: robnbird] #987218
05/08/11 04:36 AM
05/08/11 04:36 AM
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Hamburg / Germany
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Den300 Offline
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I use the Cope Pro Street Automatic valve Body with Low Band Apply and asked Cope
in what ear to burn. His answer: First. Maybe it depends on the valve body?


Hamburg/Germany

69 Chrysler 300
446cui Dual Quad
12.64 @ 110.7

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: Den300] #987219
05/08/11 10:51 AM
05/08/11 10:51 AM
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Connecticut
FurryStump Offline
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This has always been the problem with this questions. For the most part you get "no first gear burn outs" The problem is that there are far to many variables to accuratly answer that question. John Cope built my auto shift low band aplly trans also. Burnouts in manual low. You need to know exactly what's in the trans. I installed a blanket on mine.


best of 11.24 at 119 mph 1.60 60’. 68 340 S Barracuda Fastback F.A.S.T [IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/2mnnnnt.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: FurryStump] #987220
05/08/11 09:55 PM
05/08/11 09:55 PM
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DragtimeDodge Offline
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I published an article on The Dragtime News about the 'burnouts' part of this question. You can find "Burnouts 101: Heat Your Tires Without Beating Your Parts" halfway down on the Home page.

Last edited by DragtimeDodge; 05/08/11 09:58 PM.
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: DragtimeDodge] #987221
05/08/11 11:49 PM
05/08/11 11:49 PM
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Az
Crizila Offline
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Quote:

I published an article on The Dragtime News about the 'burnouts' part of this question. You can find "Burnouts 101: Heat Your Tires Without Beating Your Parts" halfway down on the Home page.


" Every vehicle is unique. Once you learn what the vehicle requires, operate on the minimal side". Some good points in the article. We over do the burn-outs ( agree )- Of course we all aren't running MT tires ether, and all tracks arent prepped the same. My 1,2,3 and roll out of the water works real good for me and my set up. My car shifts automaticaly ( in drive) from first to 3rd within around 2 seconds ( still in the water ). I'm usually off the line lock in about 4 seconds and I'm usually done around 6 seconds or less. Never have to go full throttle and I'm off the pedal and in neutral just before the car comes to a stop. Since my car shifts automatically in drive, it's just one less thing I have to do ( shift )during a burn out, and it makes them just that much more repeatable. As I said in a previous post in this thread, this is just how I do it. I'm comfortable with it and I think my drive train is too.


Fastest 300
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: Den300] #987222
05/09/11 12:18 AM
05/09/11 12:18 AM
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robnbird Offline
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Quote:

I use the Cope Pro Street Automatic valve Body with Low Band Apply and asked Cope
in what ear to burn. His answer: First. Maybe it depends on the valve body?


I don't need to ask Cope anything at all. I said if you use a trans brake start your burnout in 2nd then to 3rd ease out of the water box to dry surface let of the throttle. You valve body is basically a stock VB. Its designed so my 77yr old neighbor lady can use it. He is useing about the same thing. He should start out in 2nd then shift to 3rd to be safe and you should also. And don't burn out in first, let off and then hammer it again. You can blow your trans. And yes their are different VB'. Im shur you meant to say gear not ear.LOL Have a great day lad.

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Last edited by robnbird; 05/09/11 12:28 AM.
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: StealthWedge67] #987223
05/09/11 01:52 AM
05/09/11 01:52 AM
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oregon
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savoyracer Offline
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Quote:

So, curious.... exactly what WILL it hurt by starting the tires turning in 1st before going to second? .......YOUR FEET !!

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: savoyracer] #987224
05/09/11 06:13 AM
05/09/11 06:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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We recommend starting your burnout in second gear,however you may start in first gear but quickly go to second as soon as the tires start to spin then go to high gear.Ease off the throttle as you come out of the water box,stop put the trans in first gear and move at least 10 feet frorward to the beams.

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: B G Racing] #987225
05/10/11 10:40 AM
05/10/11 10:40 AM
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mckinney texas
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shoebox Offline OP
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I got it figured out. Im going with the turbo action LBA MVB. Thanks
For the information!


74 dart sport 440 www.Csucarbs.com
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: shoebox] #987226
05/10/11 01:15 PM
05/10/11 01:15 PM
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Posts: 6,780
Alabama
Mopar-Al Offline
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Seems everyone says to do your heat up in the water box. I don't think anyone goes 1st 2nd and 3rd in the water. You pull in , spin the tires over once, pull out of the water box, then proceed to heat the tires up. If you do your burn out in the water box, then your wheel tubs can drip water down on the track and your tires, causing havok. I believe most everyone that made a post in your thread does this, but are not making it clear for you. It also does not take long to heat a tire up. Only 5 or 6 seconds usually gets them sticky and soft.

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: Mopar-Al] #987227
05/10/11 09:44 PM
05/10/11 09:44 PM
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Az
Crizila Offline
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Quote:

Seems everyone says to do your heat up in the water box. I don't think anyone goes 1st 2nd and 3rd in the water. You pull in , spin the tires over once, pull out of the water box, then proceed to heat the tires up. If you do your burn out in the water box, then your wheel tubs can drip water down on the track and your tires, causing havok. I believe most everyone that made a post in your thread does this, but are not making it clear for you. It also does not take long to heat a tire up. Only 5 or 6 seconds usually gets them sticky and soft.


I have yet to run accross a starter that stops you in the water to do a burn out. He doesn't care about your wheel wells dripping water, but he sure doesn't want any water outside the box on his track. That being said, I always double check where he stops me to do a burnout with a reference point along the track ( sign on the fence, etc ). First thing I do when racing at a new track - besides watching how the starter is lining up cars. As I have said, my burnout takes about 6 seconds - and there is a video somewhere in this thread that proves it


Fastest 300
Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure [Re: Crizila] #987228
05/10/11 09:58 PM
05/10/11 09:58 PM
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Idaho
Runner Offline
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boy arent you glad you asked? lol

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