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Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure

Posted By: shoebox

Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 07:23 PM

Another thread here got me thinking about my transmission and
How im using it. Stock 727BB with trans go shift kit...still has auto
Function etc. Tell me how to properly burnout and launch the car
So the drum wont poof!! Also can i get blanket or do i need a
Shield?? I need the cheaper option. Ive only dont a couple burnouts
With the car years ago, i dont remember ifi used manual low. Can i
Launch in manual low?
Posted By: moparacer

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 07:26 PM

On the burnout, start in second and shift to high, come out of the water and don't let the tires grab hard...

Pretty much it...
Posted By: shoebox

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 07:42 PM

Leave in manual low?
Posted By: sam64

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 07:57 PM

yes launch in manual low,or you can just leave it in drive and let it shift itself.
Posted By: RemCharger

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 08:00 PM

Quote:

On the burnout, start in second and shift to high, come out of the water and don't let the tires grab hard...

Pretty much it...

This is wrong.
Your automatic will start out in 1st by itself. Therefore you must start in low to apply the band, then go in to 2nd and don't look back.
I've got alot of runs on mine, same same, and still works like day one. (10 yrs, 4 championships...blah blah)
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 08:03 PM

Quote:

Leave in manual low?



No, put the shifter in second then hit the pedal pretty
good... its going to start out in low then it'll
shift on its own pretty quick then get the revs up
a bit more and then shift into drive... let it burn
forward a few feet then back off the pedal... pull to
the line... you can manually shift it if you want or
put it in drive... your choice
Posted By: RemCharger

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Leave in manual low?



No, put the shifter in second then hit the pedal pretty
good... its going to start out in low then it'll
shift on its own pretty quick then get the revs up
a bit more and then shift into drive... let it burn
forward a few feet then back off the pedal... pull to
the line... you can manually shift it if you want or
put it in drive... your choice


I don't agree with this(Respectfully) because you will be starting out against the sprag alone. Put in low and you will apply the low band, therefore helping the sprag hold all of the torque you are putting to it , trying to get the tires lit.
Remember, this is not a mv body.
Please explain if I'm off base here.
Posted By: moparacer

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 08:31 PM

With an hand grenade 727 if I COULDNT start out in second, I would switch to a manual valve body that COULD...

All I am saying....


Posted By: dOoC

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 08:37 PM

Quote:



I need the cheaper option.





The CHEAPER ... in the long run .... is a aftermarket front drum. THEN the trans can NOT blow-up. The sprag might still fail .... but then all you have to R&R is that one item.

IF you go the route of all then fancy shields and blankets .... the problem then ... is IF the trans blows-up and then is successfully contained .... the trans then is TOAST ...and maybe even the converter.
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 08:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Leave in manual low?



No, put the shifter in second then hit the pedal pretty
good... its going to start out in low then it'll
shift on its own pretty quick then get the revs up
a bit more and then shift into drive... let it burn
forward a few feet then back off the pedal... pull to
the line... you can manually shift it if you want or
put it in drive... your choice


I don't agree with this(Respectfully) because you will be starting out against the sprag alone. Put in low and you will apply the low band, therefore helping the sprag hold all of the torque you are putting to it , trying to get the tires lit.
Remember, this is not a mv body.
Please explain if I'm off base here.


i'm with remcharger on this. anything you can do to protect the sprag should be implemented. manual low may seem redundant if it jumps right into second, but weird things happen. a lot of stuff blows up in the burnout box. i ran an automatic valve body for a long time, and i always started in manual low, whether in the burnout box, or on the track.
Posted By: kissmyaspen

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 09:23 PM

I had a auto V/B in mine for a couple years. put it in 2 and put it to the wood till it hits second then come out of the water.. and if your going to shift it, start in first and go through the gears.. the stock drums went through a lot during the 60's and 70's in top fuel cars... and i have only seen 2 come apart that rally blew up... so drive it like u stole it.
By the way what combo you have?
Posted By: shoebox

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/06/11 10:00 PM

By the way what combo you have?




Who me? Probably a 530hp 440
Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 02:42 AM

To the best of my knowledge, the Transgo TF-2 (auto vb) is NOT a low-band apply modification. To get the low band to apply, you still have to manually shift the trans into low. For this reason, I would always manually shift the trans into low when starting a burnout, OR and especially when launching the car. Otherwise, you're relying on the sprag to hold 1st gear.

(at least this is how my trans builder explained it to me... )

I have the TF-2 vb. I start my burnout in 1st and quickly move to second as soon as I get the tires rotating along. Try to avoid "catching" the tires while still under power when pulling out. This procedure seems to be working for my 727.
Posted By: cbarracuda

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 03:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:



I need the cheaper option.





The CHEAPER ... in the long run .... is a aftermarket front drum. THEN the trans can NOT blow-up. The sprag might still fail .... but then all you have to R&R is that one item.




Are you sure? Have been racing so many years with factory drums
Posted By: dOoC

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 04:42 AM

Quote:



Are you sure? Have been racing so many years with factory drums



I too have also had good-luck with the OEM drums ... but I have never broken a sprag. And to be perfectly honest ...I potentially have a WORSEer problem than 99.9% of the others ... I drilled the band surface THROUGH TO THE CLUTCHES (like a vented rotor) as an experiment way back when. If my sprag failed ...I am sure that my drum would come-apart sooner(lower RPM) than a stocker.

And the more I think about all this ... the more I am thinking about changing THAT DRUM before I see any other drag-strip or street action. It is a 65 trans in my 62 ..and that stuff is getting harder to find now..... ESPECIALLY that 65 Race Hemi converter.

THAT THING has been a sweetheart. SOMETHING about that converter has me keeping putting that back in the car for years ...even though I had a good Fairbanks WD deal ...way-back-when ....
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 05:01 AM

How you do your burn out will depend on how your trans is set up. I run a 727 with a 4 clutch steel front drum and a Turbo-Action Cheetah Pro street valve body - has low band apply and will upshift automatically in drive. I pull in to the water in drive ( 1st gear ). With the line lock on, I dip in to the throttle and let the trans upshift in to 3rd. I then release the line lock and feed in more throttle as the car powers out of the water - sometimes referred to as a "power burn out". As the tires get traction and the motor starts to lug down, I ease out of the throttle around 20 feet in front of the staging lights. As I come to a stop, I dump it in neutral, give it a blip or two to make sure the motor is clean and the secondary squirters are fuel charged, and I am ready to go. Again, this is just my proceedure.
http://s79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/jcailey/?action=view&current=MOV01123.mp4
Posted By: cbarracuda

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 05:17 AM

Posted By: CrazyD

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 01:59 PM

If it was a MANUAL valve body 727, burnout should start in what gear?
Posted By: moparmxz

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 02:19 PM

Quote:

If it was a MANUAL valve body 727, burnout should start in what gear?

2nd gear

Attached picture 6621722-DSC_2104.jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 02:29 PM

Quote:

If it was a MANUAL valve body 727, burnout should start in what gear?



2nd or high gear... if you have a light car or plenty
of power just start in high... your trying to get
heat into them and the faster tire RPM does it quicker
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 10:08 PM

Quote:

i'm with remcharger on this. anything you can do to protect the sprag should be implemented. manual low may seem redundant if it jumps right into second, but weird things happen. a lot of stuff blows up in the burnout box.



Yep, and it's not always the first incorrect burnout or the second or....but it's the accumulated abuse of the sprag that can eventually lead to failure.

Simply stated, spinning the tires in water doesn't fully load the sprag, if the sprag doesn't see a load at the rear wheels the rollers won't fully seat and partially seated rollers can skid and get flat spots worn on them leading to failure.
Posted By: fishy340

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/07/11 11:08 PM

on any converter or even my ati 727,and on ford trannys also..(it always has a warning NEVER START BURN OUT IN 1ST GEAR)get tires wet,roll out to where the water stops,2nd gear hit peddle when tires spin...shift to 3rd and hold 4000 to 5000 rpm atleast with a high hp motor
Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 01:03 AM

So, curious.... exactly what WILL it hurt by starting the tires turning in 1st before going to second? Is it the gear change unloaded? (Explain this to me like I'm the village idiot)

My car is a low 12-second street car with a TF-2 kit. I pretty much shift it manually all the time though. The way I understand it, by engaging 1st gear manually, I am applying the low gear band. It seems that this would only make things stronger... (????). Why is this not true?
Posted By: Twostick

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 01:50 AM

Unless you are running a MVB you are starting in 1st anyway so you are right, putting it in 1 applies the band in addition to the roller clutch = stronger. What kills the roller clutch is a shock load like the tires spinning (no load) and then they dead hook at full power in 1st. That's why they say to get into 2nd or D ASAP and roll easy out of the throttle when you're done.

If you have a MVB AND enough power you can start in 2 or D and the roller clutch isn't in play.

Kevin
Posted By: Leon441

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 02:30 AM

Doc Fiberglass I don't know that your drilled drum is any more dangerous than a stock one. Here is my theory... The surface of the drum is lighter and therefore may not have as much force trying to throw it apart upon a sprag failure.

Leon
Posted By: Leon441

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 02:37 AM

As far as I know the only Valve Bodies that do not apply the band in low gear are aftermarket race versions that deleted this function.

If I were running a "Shift Kit Valve body" I would probably start in 2nd as Pbody suggested. The reason right or wrong is your trans is still going to start off in 1st no matter what you do. So at least it will cause the sprag to seat the rollers where if you are in low, you are applying the band and not seating the sprag. A manual rear band apply valve body would be a better route. A few hundred for a front drum that will not blow, even better. I would say a low power combo may not be threatened by a sprag failure, BUT.... I have seen a 4WD pickup out playing in the mud blow a tranny up. So it can happen. A blanket can be used but you will still bend up the floor board.

Leon
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 02:42 AM

Quote:

Unless you are running a MVB you are starting in 1st anyway so you are right, putting it in 1 applies the band in addition to the roller clutch = stronger. What kills the roller clutch is a shock load like the tires spinning (no load) and then they dead hook at full power in 1st. That's why they say to get into 2nd or D ASAP and roll easy out of the throttle when you're done.

If you have a MVB AND enough power you can start in 2 or D and the roller clutch isn't in play.

Kevin

Easy in - and easy out and she will be a happy camper When you do a burnout correctly, it is not a violent experience.
Posted By: robnbird

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 05:16 AM

You definitely need a blanket or a shield.Ask Don Garlits 1/2 of his foot gone. If you use a trans brake start your burnout in 2nd gear then to 3rd. as you start moving out of the water and the tires move to dry surface let off of the throttle. don't accelerate in first let off and hammer it again.
Posted By: robnbird

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 05:30 AM

Quote:

On the burnout, start in second and shift to high, come out of the water and don't let the tires grab hard...

Pretty much it...

this is correct. your trans will live by it.
Posted By: Den300

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 08:36 AM

I use the Cope Pro Street Automatic valve Body with Low Band Apply and asked Cope
in what ear to burn. His answer: First. Maybe it depends on the valve body?
Posted By: FurryStump

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/08/11 02:51 PM

This has always been the problem with this questions. For the most part you get "no first gear burn outs" The problem is that there are far to many variables to accuratly answer that question. John Cope built my auto shift low band aplly trans also. Burnouts in manual low. You need to know exactly what's in the trans. I installed a blanket on mine.
Posted By: DragtimeDodge

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/09/11 01:55 AM

I published an article on The Dragtime News about the 'burnouts' part of this question. You can find "Burnouts 101: Heat Your Tires Without Beating Your Parts" halfway down on the Home page.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/09/11 03:49 AM

Quote:

I published an article on The Dragtime News about the 'burnouts' part of this question. You can find "Burnouts 101: Heat Your Tires Without Beating Your Parts" halfway down on the Home page.

" Every vehicle is unique. Once you learn what the vehicle requires, operate on the minimal side". Some good points in the article. We over do the burn-outs ( agree )- Of course we all aren't running MT tires ether, and all tracks arent prepped the same. My 1,2,3 and roll out of the water works real good for me and my set up. My car shifts automaticaly ( in drive) from first to 3rd within around 2 seconds ( still in the water ). I'm usually off the line lock in about 4 seconds and I'm usually done around 6 seconds or less. Never have to go full throttle and I'm off the pedal and in neutral just before the car comes to a stop. Since my car shifts automatically in drive, it's just one less thing I have to do ( shift )during a burn out, and it makes them just that much more repeatable. As I said in a previous post in this thread, this is just how I do it. I'm comfortable with it and I think my drive train is too.
Posted By: robnbird

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/09/11 04:18 AM

Quote:

I use the Cope Pro Street Automatic valve Body with Low Band Apply and asked Cope
in what ear to burn. His answer: First. Maybe it depends on the valve body?

I don't need to ask Cope anything at all. I said if you use a trans brake start your burnout in 2nd then to 3rd ease out of the water box to dry surface let of the throttle. You valve body is basically a stock VB. Its designed so my 77yr old neighbor lady can use it. He is useing about the same thing. He should start out in 2nd then shift to 3rd to be safe and you should also. And don't burn out in first, let off and then hammer it again. You can blow your trans. And yes their are different VB'. Im shur you meant to say gear not ear.LOL Have a great day lad.

Attached picture 6624268-mocar.jpg
Posted By: savoyracer

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/09/11 05:52 AM

Quote:

So, curious.... exactly what WILL it hurt by starting the tires turning in 1st before going to second? .......YOUR FEET !!
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/09/11 10:13 AM

We recommend starting your burnout in second gear,however you may start in first gear but quickly go to second as soon as the tires start to spin then go to high gear.Ease off the throttle as you come out of the water box,stop put the trans in first gear and move at least 10 feet frorward to the beams.
Posted By: shoebox

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/10/11 02:40 PM

I got it figured out. Im going with the turbo action LBA MVB. Thanks
For the information!
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/10/11 05:15 PM

Seems everyone says to do your heat up in the water box. I don't think anyone goes 1st 2nd and 3rd in the water. You pull in , spin the tires over once, pull out of the water box, then proceed to heat the tires up. If you do your burn out in the water box, then your wheel tubs can drip water down on the track and your tires, causing havok. I believe most everyone that made a post in your thread does this, but are not making it clear for you. It also does not take long to heat a tire up. Only 5 or 6 seconds usually gets them sticky and soft.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/11/11 01:44 AM

Quote:

Seems everyone says to do your heat up in the water box. I don't think anyone goes 1st 2nd and 3rd in the water. You pull in , spin the tires over once, pull out of the water box, then proceed to heat the tires up. If you do your burn out in the water box, then your wheel tubs can drip water down on the track and your tires, causing havok. I believe most everyone that made a post in your thread does this, but are not making it clear for you. It also does not take long to heat a tire up. Only 5 or 6 seconds usually gets them sticky and soft.

I have yet to run accross a starter that stops you in the water to do a burn out. He doesn't care about your wheel wells dripping water, but he sure doesn't want any water outside the box on his track. That being said, I always double check where he stops me to do a burnout with a reference point along the track ( sign on the fence, etc ). First thing I do when racing at a new track - besides watching how the starter is lining up cars. As I have said, my burnout takes about 6 seconds - and there is a video somewhere in this thread that proves it
Posted By: Runner

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/11/11 01:58 AM

boy arent you glad you asked? lol
Posted By: 451 D*O*D*G*E

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/11/11 03:28 AM

Not Good
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/11/11 03:33 AM

Quote:

Not Good


Next time I wouldn't paint it Chevy red . Tail housing gasket looks reuseable.
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: Burnouts,exploding trannys and lauch proceedure - 05/18/11 02:51 AM

Tail housing gasket does look re-useable. LMAO. (at the comment, not the carnage).
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