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Please Critique my Combo Update!!
#891439
12/29/10 08:56 PM
12/29/10 08:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
ChrgrCuda
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
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O.k., I don't have the flow number sheet yet, but please take a stab at it and tell me about what I can expect regarding horsepower and torque for my 69 Charger Street car. 440/505 (.030 over, 4.25 stroke) RPM Crank, K-1 rods, Probe Pistons '77 Block, ARP studs, line honed, bored, square decked 1/2 inch oil pickup Milodon 7 quart pan w/windage tray, HV oil pump 10.8:1 Indy Lil EZ 295cc heads, milled to 72cc chambers, ported by Compu-Flow Don't have the flow sheet yet, but they flow 351 [Email]cfm@650[/Email] lift? PAC springs, Titanium retainers Custom ground Comp Solid Roller, 259/260@.050, .647/.650 lift? Don't have the cam yet, just a general description as it is getting ground at Comp right now Indy 2-d intake ported to match heads AED 1000 cfm(850 body) Firecore/MSD distibutor w/6AL TTI 2 inch ceramic coated headers 69 Charger street car, w/power brakes, steering, and air conditioning CRT 727 w/GV Go ahead and be candid and brutal on your opinion as I am open to the suggestions of the experts and my friends here on Moparts  O.k. - Head Flow numbers are in from Nick@Compuflow plus cam spec's Indy Lil' EZ's - @28.0 inches of water SuperFlow SF-1020 Intake Exh. .200 - 129.9 109.5 .300 - 199.3 148.2 .400 - 254.2 178.8 .500 - 301.4 205.3 .600 - 328.1 218.7 .700 - 347.8 229.1 Comp Cams Solid Roller - Ground on a 112 LSA installed at 111. Duration is 254 int and 259 exhaust. .644 Intake Lift and .649 Exhaust. So with a little more data, I'm hoping I end up around 650 horsepower. What are ya'lls thoughts?
Last edited by ChrgrCuda; 02/22/11 02:50 PM.
68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email]
69 Charger R/T 440/505
2009 Challenger SRT8
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: ChrgrCuda]
#891443
12/29/10 11:43 PM
12/29/10 11:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 449
Wisconsin
sjs64polara
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 449
Wisconsin
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I run 505 pump gas motor with 10.75:1 compression. Custom ground Bullet roller, 640 lift Hand ported MW Victor heads with 1.6 T&D rockers. MW Rick Allison cross ram. 835 Holley carbs done by Ken Jones. 2”TTi’s Motor made 730hp and 730lbs torque @ 5700/5800 rpm on Mobil 93oct pump gas  I good intake manifold would make more hp so I'm sure you'll do 725 + with out an issue 
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: sjs64polara]
#891444
12/30/10 01:10 AM
12/30/10 01:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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Pretty close to the ideal street/strip recipie in my book Pay extra attention to cleaning up the lower plenum to runner transitions on the 2D and you will be rewarded with the best D@rn intake you could ever run on a street stroker. AED's with downleg boosters work great on 500" strokers, I like to fit them with 50cc pumps and then drop down the shooter size rather than run 30's and shoot up You didn't mention the port window and the standard Little EZ's neck down to 906 size before transitioning to full MW in the runner. If you can open the port window to ~1/2 way between 906 and MaxWedge, (to around 3.25 sq in or 1.375 x 2.375 that works very well (well worth trhe little extra effort it takes) and you'll get much needed extra flow out of the intake...at full MW and the radius work the 2D can average right at 355-360cfm. If it were me I'd take it full Maxie, the 2D is so responsive on a 500" roller motor there's no reason not to. I don't know your flow curve but if your heads flow ~285 by .450 and ~315-320 by .500 that cam/head combo is gonna really work awesomely. I don't know the lobe spread but I'd like to see it cut on 108 and in at 105-106. I see a realistic 670 peak hp but keep in mind you're going to have so much wall to freakin' wall torque all over that you will be finding excuses to not come home and just keep riding and looking for roads to roll on the power and let it eat! To me that's the essesnce of getting the combo right. Nice job!
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/30/10 01:17 AM.
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: Streetwize]
#891445
12/30/10 07:59 AM
12/30/10 07:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
ChrgrCuda
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
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You guys are making me feel much better about my choices! Yes, these are opened up to the Max Wedge window along with the 2-D intake.
68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email]
69 Charger R/T 440/505
2009 Challenger SRT8
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: AAR-B4]
#891449
12/30/10 10:37 AM
12/30/10 10:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: dennismopar73]
#891451
12/30/10 10:58 AM
12/30/10 10:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 685
SW Ohio
AAR-B4
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 685
SW Ohio
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Quote:
quick question tho
how do we know that we will see
5 gallon gas??
that will cripple all of us !!!! 
   
We don't know but ex Shell president John Hofmeister predicts $5/gal gas summer 2012.
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: AAR-B4]
#891452
12/30/10 12:11 PM
12/30/10 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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Solid rollers can and do work well on the street so long as you use an endurance ramp that has a tolerable rate of rise (not so 'violent' and requiring race spring seat/open pressures). I've run (and several others on Moparts as well) the comp 260/266 .630 lift street roller with no issues at all. That cam at 259/260 looks tame enough (I presume you asked Comp to spec a suitable street type grind) but I do think a Bullet Hydraulic roller would be a better choice. You didn't mention your gearing but what will be your final drive ratio? If the Cruise RPM is below about 2600 you may want to spread the lobe centers out to 110-112, not my preference (I really like 108 splits) but with A/C it might be a better overall choice. Your grind even at 108 won't have any idle vacuum issues with that 2D and compression, it won't even know it's there. As for streetable, my 517 Max Wedge is probably about 1/2 step hotter, it's 12:1 and is a Hard Blocked low deck. I run the Indy 2D ported as I described above. It has perfect street manners and runs like a scalded dog on pump 93. 3.54 gears, 3600 stall/4400 flash. You can run high compression on 93 if you know how to match the cylinder pressure, quench, timing and cooling requirements to do it safely and right. I'll stand on the 670 prediction, from my experience (I have a bit  ) to hit 700 you'll want another 10 degrees of so of intake duration and a bit more compression to get there. But if your heads were in the 360cfm range by .600 (not .650) you could probably get there with that cam...but as I said you're going to have so much torque and throttle snap you'll never miss it or wish for more. Skull-crushing wall to wall torque is the best aspect of BB Mopar Maxie Strokers....I still don't get all the guys that put 4500+ stall speed verts on their street strokers....what's the point of side-stepping all that roll-on Sledgehammer torque through the middle? As for $5 gas, yeah I can see that happening. How else can they push the Green agenda on us?  Gas is denominated in US dollars so as the dollar devalues gas goes up inversely. It's got nothing to do with Stroker motors other than it'll cost a bit more to go have fun
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/30/10 12:21 PM.
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: Streetwize]
#891453
12/30/10 12:22 PM
12/30/10 12:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 970
Backwater, PA
bwdst6
Bob George Racing #1 Fan
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Bob George Racing #1 Fan
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 970
Backwater, PA
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Quote:
Solid rollers can and do work well on the street so long as you use an endurance ramp that has a tolerable rate of rise (not so 'violent' and requiring race spring seat/open pressures). I've run (and several others on Moparts as well) the comp 260/266 .630 lift street roller with no issues at all.
Do you guys spend any significant time idling in stop-and-go traffic? Pressure-fed-lifters have helped the lifespan of solid rollers but checking them once a year is still recommended!
Last edited by bwdst6; 12/30/10 12:28 PM.
This post is available in double vision where drunk.
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: bwdst6]
#891454
12/30/10 12:36 PM
12/30/10 12:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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Bw,
Solid rollers don't like prolonged idling, that is true, and with a racier type grind I typically vary the RPM/oil pressure during Prolonged stop and go sitting, but I've always done that with any solid cam. Something that does help with idle issues is to run a fully grooved #4 cam journal which allows you a constant supply of oil to the rocker shafts which then bleeds down to the cam valley but when I do this you also restrict the block oil passages to the decks so as not to draw too much oil to the top at high RPM....too complex to get into the right balance here (it's doable) but that's the idea. There's a thread on some of the more inherent oiling issues (bushed/vs non bushed) with running solid rollers on the street but I personally havent had to bush any Solid roller Mopar motors.
As I said, for street motors I think the advantage between any solid roller I've run on the street verses the new Bullet Hydraulic rollers to be small for any motor not likely to have to see above 6600 or so. It's my preferred way to go, but the Comp called out with only .640 lift doesn't sound like it would be anything other than a street type (not over-aggressive) ramp.
I do agree the roller lifters should be checked/inspected every year, that's something I do routinely though on any solid roller.
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/30/10 01:27 PM.
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: Streetwize]
#891455
12/30/10 02:07 PM
12/30/10 02:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Thats one hell of a "street" build!, and out of my league for sure. But from a million miles below, my concern would be what sort of tunability and low RPM street manners you're going to have with the mild compression vs. the long duration stick. Also, running power brakes and AC with 260* of duration...... might be dicey. With that said, I hope I never roll up next to you at the stoplight! 
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: Streetwize]
#891456
12/30/10 02:20 PM
12/30/10 02:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 970
Backwater, PA
bwdst6
Bob George Racing #1 Fan
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Bob George Racing #1 Fan
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 970
Backwater, PA
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Quote:
I do agree the roller lifters should be checked/inspected every year, that's something I do routinely though on any solid roller.
One solution to street roller lifters are Isky’s EZ-ROLL lifters that use a friction bearing instead of the needle bearings. Isky advertises them as having “40% more life”.
Last edited by bwdst6; 12/30/10 02:25 PM.
This post is available in double vision where drunk.
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Re: Please Critique my Combo
[Re: Streetwize]
#891458
12/31/10 11:36 AM
12/31/10 11:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
ChrgrCuda
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
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Quote:
Solid rollers can and do work well on the street so long as you use an endurance ramp that has a tolerable rate of rise (not so 'violent' and requiring race spring seat/open pressures). I've run (and several others on Moparts as well) the comp 260/266 .630 lift street roller with no issues at all.
That cam at 259/260 looks tame enough (I presume you asked Comp to spec a suitable street type grind) but I do think a Bullet Hydraulic roller would be a better choice. You didn't mention your gearing but what will be your final drive ratio? If the Cruise RPM is below about 2600 you may want to spread the lobe centers out to 110-112, not my preference (I really like 108 splits) but with A/C it might be a better overall choice. Your grind even at 108 won't have any idle vacuum issues with that 2D and compression, it won't even know it's there.
As for streetable, my 517 Max Wedge is probably about 1/2 step hotter, it's 12:1 and is a Hard Blocked low deck. I run the Indy 2D ported as I described above. It has perfect street manners and runs like a scalded dog on pump 93. 3.54 gears, 3600 stall/4400 flash. You can run high compression on 93 if you know how to match the cylinder pressure, quench, timing and cooling requirements to do it safely and right.
I'll stand on the 670 prediction, from my experience (I have a bit ) to hit 700 you'll want another 10 degrees of so of intake duration and a bit more compression to get there. But if your heads were in the 360cfm range by .600 (not .650) you could probably get there with that cam...but as I said you're going to have so much torque and throttle snap you'll never miss it or wish for more. Skull-crushing wall to wall torque is the best aspect of BB Mopar Maxie Strokers....I still don't get all the guys that put 4500+ stall speed verts on their street strokers....what's the point of side-stepping all that roll-on Sledgehammer torque through the middle?
As for $5 gas, yeah I can see that happening. How else can they push the Green agenda on us? Gas is denominated in US dollars so as the dollar devalues gas goes up inversely. It's got nothing to do with Stroker motors other than it'll cost a bit more to go have fun
Thanks so much for all of the replies, and yes, brutal and honest opinions. That's why I posted.
Wize, this is a custom grind cam ground specifically for my combo by Nick Wilson at Compu-flow. He said that my 12" of vacuum requirement for the brakes limited the amount of duration. The Charger has a new Dana 60 assembly with 3.73 gears and 26 in tall M/T street tires. I planned on a Gear Vendors as well. Nick said we probably left some horsepower on the table with the vacuum requirement, but he said the same thing you did in regards to the torque that it probably wouldn't get to the ground anyway. By the way, I am one of the people that always check out your blue Charger on You Tube, and just can't get over how bad to the bone that car sounds! Your car is one of the models I have used in my build, probably not near as bad but within maybe 75 horsepower hopefully. I just wish that video was longer. Thanks again so much for all of the replies and recommendations 
68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email]
69 Charger R/T 440/505
2009 Challenger SRT8
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Holy Cow!!!!!! I didn't think much more than 625! Really? I'm a small block guy, so I guess I stand to be impressed! Dam. I can't wait to get everything put together and fire this thing up. 
