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Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler #864741 11/27/10 01:38 PM 11/27/10 01:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Lloydminster, Canada B BombSquad OP member
BombSquad OP member B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Lloydminster, Canada	Hey guys. Just looking for some opinions. I have a 68 Charger I'm wanting to go protouring with. I have a non original 68 440 in it now and this is what I'm planning 440 block with half fill 440 source bottom end, factory stroke and 9:1 comp Billet mains and maybe girdle 440 source stealth heads, ported and checked Pro Flo Xt efi from edelbrock. High impedance replacement injectors for 1000hp. Can use 2bar map sensor and optional wideband a/f sensor. F1 from the supercharger store. Air to air I/C Looking for something I can play with on a budget. Turbos are fantastic but I don't want to have to deal with exhaust plumbing and I am not out for all out hp. Car will be street driven mostly, and I'm planning on going with a gear vendors and 727 or possibly a 4L80e, and 3.55s out back.

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: BombSquad] #864742 11/27/10 02:07 PM 11/27/10 02:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX	hmmm... 1000 hp billet mains/girdle cheapest heads on the market Edelbrock EFI 4L80E transmission Pro Touring (looks purty but will likely never see a race track) Working on a budget Some of these things do not fit together. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: feets] #864743 11/27/10 02:34 PM 11/27/10 02:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Lloydminster, Canada B BombSquad OP member
BombSquad OP member B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Lloydminster, Canada	Don't need expensive heads to make more power than my tires can handle with just a little boost. And by budget I mean I'm keeping cost in mind but it's not the biggest concern. I don't plan to autocross but I do like tight handling and excellent brakes. It will truly be for pro touring in that I'll take it on the same road trips I do now. The goal isn't 1000hp but I'm going to have the fuel if I need it I enjoy tweaking and am pretty good with electronics so I want something to toy around with. Is there anything I listed that is a roadblock or weak point in the build?

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: BombSquad] #864744 11/27/10 02:41 PM 11/27/10 02:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Lloydminster, Canada B BombSquad OP member
BombSquad OP member B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Lloydminster, Canada	By the way, I appreciate the help feets. I've been following you on here and turbomustangs for a long time.

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: BombSquad] #864745 11/27/10 04:10 PM 11/27/10 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX	I hope you realize how difficult it is to hook up big power with low profile tires. I run a 295/45-18 which has a 5" sidewall. That tall of a tire still has issues holding on to my mild build with 3.23 gears and a stock converter. Adding another 350 or 400 hp would make it even more difficult. A car like you're describing (I hate the term Pro Touring) is a compromise of EVERYTHING. Good power but a fat power band. Stiffer suspension but not harsh. Sticky tires but wear and all weather traction is a concern. Strong drivetrain but nothing that bangs or slams on shifts. Stiff chassis but it can't rattle your teeth out. Lighter weight but keep creature comforts. Blower hanging off the side of the engine that doesn't interfere with the A/C compressor. Big brakes that aren't harsh and have readily available replacement parts. Sure, you can hack it together like I did but be aware that you will have to give a little here and there to make it work. Cars like the Big Red Camaro are nifty but have more money in them than I spent on my house. Like anything else, it's a money game. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: feets] #864746 11/27/10 10:42 PM 11/27/10 10:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Lloydminster, Canada B BombSquad OP member
BombSquad OP member B Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 7 Lloydminster, Canada	I'm no stranger to high hp cars and trucks, I've got room for 345 width rubber. Something like a Pilot Sport PS2 in 18" out back. And drag radials for our local street legal drags Like I said money isnt the biggest issue, but I'm not going to throw money at parts that aren't worth it. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer but efficiency is number 1 in the build. For example, I know I could make that power with my ported 906s but I want to get some weight off the front. And the stealths are cheap. But I can't justify an aluminum block. If you forget DIY efi stuff like megasquirt, what would you choose for efi right now? I've considered fast, dfi and ended up really liking the pro Flo when I saw it demo'd. Plus i like the design of their intake.

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: BombSquad] #864747 11/28/10 01:17 AM 11/28/10 01:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX	I've been looking at the FAST and Pro-Flo systems but I don't know enough about them. I can't afford to make any changes so it's not a priority for me. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: feets] #864748 11/28/10 05:37 PM 11/28/10 05:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,212 QLD Australia Keith Black® pro stock
Keith Black® pro stock Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,212 QLD Australia	the 440 rods and crank would be my concern if you're planning over 1,000 hp. I have the tyres you mention 345 PS2's. Pic: 6325402-carwithtankout.jpg (77 downloads) -------------------------------- Darren Beale Keith Black Racing Engines®

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Keith Black®] #864749 11/28/10 05:39 PM 11/28/10 05:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,212 QLD Australia Keith Black® pro stock
Keith Black® pro stock Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,212 QLD Australia	sorry, I meant "440 Source" rods and crank, -------------------------------- Darren Beale Keith Black Racing Engines®

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Keith Black®] #864750 11/28/10 08:54 PM 11/28/10 08:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 I Live Here
Quicksilver440 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	Don't buy injectors that will support 1000hp unless you are making 1000 hp or close.... Injectors must be sized to the HP you will actually be making.... Also...making big power anywhere close to that, you better get an aftermarket block.

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Quicksilver440] #864751 11/28/10 11:16 PM 11/28/10 11:16 PM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,418 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY Dragula I Live Here
Dragula I Live Here Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,418 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY	Quote: Don't buy injectors that will support 1000hp unless you are making 1000 hp or close.... Injectors must be sized to the HP you will actually be making.... Also...making big power anywhere close to that, you better get an aftermarket block. I disagree. What HP do 83lb/be objectors support at 60psi? I have run these for years, just curious where you get that fact from. Last edited by Dragula; 11/28/10 11:18 PM. '70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9) '66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage '71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Dragula] #864752 11/29/10 10:03 AM 11/29/10 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,244 Canada Kam*Kuda master
Kam*Kuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,244 Canada	Its the idle concerns for big injectors on a smaller engine, I also have 83's on a mild 500 inch (prior to the procharger). As long as you have a good charging system, you should be good with the larger injector. 1970 Barracuda Convertible 1968 Satellite Street Strip car 1654.5 Mustang 1955 Land Rover

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: BombSquad] #864753 11/29/10 10:32 AM 11/29/10 10:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	I must be dumb, I just don't understand the logic of making 1000hp or attempting to do it if you're not going to run/beat on the car. You'd be better off and happier w/ a mild 650hp boosted 440 and you won't need all that fancy EFI or other junk. My Bro-in-Law spent about 12k on a 408 storker for his Fox body, another 10k on chassis and ground effects plus paint and he won't race it..."doesn't want anything to break". Then why spend all that cash on the drivetrain when a modest 5.0 would have done... [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Mr.Yuck] #864754 11/29/10 12:27 PM 11/29/10 12:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX	Because on the street you'll be far happier with EFI than with that carburetor junk. Yuck, your piss poor attitude is showing again. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: feets] #864755 11/29/10 12:55 PM 11/29/10 12:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	Quote: Because on the street you'll be far happier with EFI than with that carburetor junk. Yuck, your piss poor attitude is showing again. not against EFI,,, have at it. but 1000hp for something somebody is just going to tool around in????

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Kam*Kuda] #864756 11/29/10 01:30 PM 11/29/10 01:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT gdonovan I Live Here
gdonovan I Live Here Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT	Quote: Its the idle concerns for big injectors on a smaller engine, I also have 83's on a mild 500 inch (prior to the procharger). I run 83 pph injectors on a 135 cubic inch motor.

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: gdonovan] #864757 11/29/10 05:31 PM 11/29/10 05:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,212 QLD Australia Keith Black® pro stock
Keith Black® pro stock Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,212 QLD Australia	I'll be running 16 x 95lb injectors. The pulse widths are very narrow @ low engine speeds/loads with large injectors and I don't want a poor tune. -------------------------------- Darren Beale Keith Black Racing Engines®

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Keith Black®] #864758 11/29/10 05:55 PM 11/29/10 05:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT gdonovan I Live Here
gdonovan I Live Here Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT	Quote: I'll be running 16 x 95lb injectors. Enough for 1174 hp at 85% duty cycle. I'd not worry too much about the injector size, some folks on the turbo dodge team are running 130 pph injectors. My Reliant starts and idles like a stocker and runs stock electronics. Yes, I do my own calibrations.

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Dragula] #864759 11/29/10 06:18 PM 11/29/10 06:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 I Live Here
Quicksilver440 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	Quote: Quote: Don't buy injectors that will support 1000hp unless you are making 1000 hp or close.... Injectors must be sized to the HP you will actually be making.... Also...making big power anywhere close to that, you better get an aftermarket block. I disagree. What HP do 83lb/be objectors support at 60psi? I have run these for years, just curious where you get that fact from. I could be wrong....and you are more experienced than I. But I would be concerned that if injectors are WAY TO BIG...you could have idle pulsewidth issues. This was based on my assuming he meant run like a 650 hp engine on 80lbs injectors. That would be like a .40 duty cycle or something... Maybe it's not a big deal for a street car... But it doesn't sound ideal to me. But I was assuming a lot.... Last edited by Quicksilver440; 11/29/10 06:22 PM.

Re: Need opinions: 440 EFI procharger/intercooler [Re: Quicksilver440] #864760 11/29/10 07:20 PM 11/29/10 07:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT gdonovan I Live Here
gdonovan I Live Here Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT	Quote: I could be wrong....and you are more experienced than I. But I would be concerned that if injectors are WAY TO BIG...you could have idle pulsewidth issues. This was based on my assuming he meant run like a 650 hp engine on 80lbs injectors. I run a 4 banger with 83's and friends of mine run 130's. One just ran 8's with a Dodge Shadow. His injectors will be fine, hell I use to pass state emissions with no cat with 52's. People talk theory all day, some of us do actually walk the talk and can provide feedback.

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