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Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
#857951
11/19/10 04:35 PM
11/19/10 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,282
Danville, NH
Mopar_Mike
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,282
Danville, NH
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Why is it that everyone who builds race ready transmissions will only do it with a reverse shift valve body. Personally I prefer a forward shifting manual valve body, seems more natural.. Whats the big difference?
RS23L7 4-Speed
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: moparniac]
#857953
11/19/10 04:43 PM
11/19/10 04:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
dusturbd340W5
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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yep and as a safety aspect with a rev pattern you are shifting away from N instead of towards it.
70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake
best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: Mopar_Mike]
#857954
11/19/10 04:48 PM
11/19/10 04:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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purely a matter of preference. if you like forward pattern, go for it! cope has some very nice valve bodies. i have one in my turd and i absolutely love it. mine is reverse, but he and several others have forward pattern.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: Mopar_Mike]
#857956
11/19/10 05:33 PM
11/19/10 05:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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This makes me ask a question. What about the "clean neutral" valve bodies I have heard about? It is my understanding, that it is a reverse pattern with a second neutral at the end of the pattern. In other words, is it possible to go to neutral at the end of a run and coast down to a stop? I am thinking that is the intention and purpose behind this. Maybe I'm wrong, but haven't talked to anybody about them. Also, if that is correct, it kind of makes the reverse pattern the same as regular forward pattern as far as accidentally going to neutral on a high gear shift. Am I not seeing this right? Any explanations of the 'clean neutral' are welcome and appreciated. I would like to go to neutral after a pass, but with reverse pattern,,,, 
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#857957
11/19/10 07:06 PM
11/19/10 07:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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I didn't want to chop up my council, plus I wanted to use my factory shifter, so I went with a forward shifting valve body. Actually, mine is a cheeta valve body with an automatic up shift feature ( like a regular valve body ), so when I do a burn out, I just leave it in drive and it automatically upshifts to third. I then just release the line lock and roll out of the water in 3rd.
Fastest 300
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#857960
11/19/10 09:22 PM
11/19/10 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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We use the reverse manual in my sons Dart and my car. I myself like to pull the shifter towards me when racing. It seems more natural pulling the shifter then it does pushing it as what I would have to do with a forward valve body. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 11/19/10 09:23 PM.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: 383man]
#857961
11/19/10 09:33 PM
11/19/10 09:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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I have a RMVB in mine and w/ a pro ratchet shifter It's a natural for me.
We put one in the 72 and W/ the factory slap stick it was a mess. I put a TA Manual/automatic FVB in it and it works great with the slap stick.
It's all just a mater of what works for what you want to do. 
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#857964
11/20/10 09:21 AM
11/20/10 09:21 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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Quote:
This makes me ask a question. What about the "clean neutral" valve bodies I have heard about? It is my understanding, that it is a reverse pattern with a second neutral at the end of the pattern. In other words, is it possible to go to neutral at the end of a run and coast down to a stop? I am thinking that is the intention and purpose behind this. Maybe I'm wrong, but haven't talked to anybody about them. Also, if that is correct, it kind of makes the reverse pattern the same as regular forward pattern as far as accidentally going to neutral on a high gear shift. Am I not seeing this right? Any explanations of the 'clean neutral' are welcome and appreciated. I would like to go to neutral after a pass, but with reverse pattern,,,,
Anybody have any info on this set-up?
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#857965
11/20/10 09:53 AM
11/20/10 09:53 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 354
kielbasa
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 354
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i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock) because he told me rmvb allows higher line pressure (or something to that effect) than fmvb......i will install the Duncan shift-r-gate, so at least i can still keep my slapstick though, haven't tried it out yet though.
Last edited by kielbasa; 11/20/10 09:56 AM.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: kielbasa]
#857966
11/20/10 10:42 AM
11/20/10 10:42 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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Quote:
i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock) because he told me rmvb allows higher line pressure (or something to that effect) than fmvb......i will install the Duncan shift-r-gate, so at least i can still keep my slapstick though, haven't tried it out yet though.
I bought the gate but couldn't really figure out how to install it with up cutting up and possibly ruining the slap stik shifter.
I have no idea why the shift pattern of any VB would affect the line pressure. What I do know is we took out a TA RMVB and installed the Manual/Atuomatic VB and the shifts were just as solid with either.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#857967
11/20/10 11:54 AM
11/20/10 11:54 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
This makes me ask a question. What about the "clean neutral" valve bodies I have heard about? It is my understanding, that it is a reverse pattern with a second neutral at the end of the pattern. In other words, is it possible to go to neutral at the end of a run and coast down to a stop? I am thinking that is the intention and purpose behind this. Maybe I'm wrong, but haven't talked to anybody about them. Also, if that is correct, it kind of makes the reverse pattern the same as regular forward pattern as far as accidentally going to neutral on a high gear shift. Am I not seeing this right? Any explanations of the 'clean neutral' are welcome and appreciated. I would like to go to neutral after a pass, but with reverse pattern,,,,
Anybody have any info on this set-up?
CHAPPER
You are correct in your assumtion
I spoke with John Cope (CRT) and this option is only available with a trans brake. There are 2 neutrals one is after 3rd gear and the other shares the same position as reverse. To use reverse the trans brake button has to be activated.
Shift pattern; P, R&N, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, N
RMVB pattern; P, R, N, 1st, 2nd, 3rd
I like to go in neutral after the run also.
At the moment my Quarter Stick is modified in the gate to slap it from 3rd to neutral after the run 
Also talked with him about using a Forward VB and was recommended not to use with my HP & TQ level 
Really don't want to spend $800.00 for a Trans Brake VB that I'll never use being a Foot Brake racer.
Hope this clarifies things
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: roadhazard]
#857968
11/20/10 12:18 PM
11/20/10 12:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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Greg,,,,empty your PM box  I just pecked out a message for about 20 minutes ,,,AND,,, unable to deliver 
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: kielbasa]
#857970
11/20/10 03:58 PM
11/20/10 03:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock)...
How much HP will that be? Just curious since I use a Turbo Action FMVB w/ about 600 HP and have no problems running in the 10s.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: kielbasa]
#857972
11/21/10 02:12 PM
11/21/10 02:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 226
lino lakes,MN
onebaddakota
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 226
lino lakes,MN
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I've run both on the street and strip. I've lost races with the forward-bumping into neutral from the 2nd to 3rd shift is way too easy. I've also been told that the reverse is easier on the tranny if you do a lot of street miles.
Tom
10.56 at 125.6, with a 1.43 60 ft.
E85, Hyd. Roller 410 magnum,full exhaust, 3500 race weight.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: kielbasa]
#857975
11/22/10 11:25 AM
11/22/10 11:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
kissmyaspen
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
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Quote:
i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock) because he told me rmvb allows higher line pressure (or something to that effect) than fmvb......i will install the Duncan shift-r-gate, so at least i can still keep my slapstick though, haven't tried it out yet though.
This is confusing, because no matter where 1st is on the shifter it still in the same spot in the transmission. and i dont see how horsepower would make a difference in shift forward or backwards. 
79 Dodge Aspen
12.265 at 109.75 MPH
67 Satellite NSS/E
11.83 @ 110
1968 Plymouth Road Runner 472 Hemi
3 time MOPAR NATIONALS CHAMP '03 FWD and '06 & '09 Street.
'07, '10, '12 Mopar Nats runner-up Street.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: kissmyaspen]
#857976
11/22/10 02:41 PM
11/22/10 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock) because he told me rmvb allows higher line pressure (or something to that effect) than fmvb......i will install the Duncan shift-r-gate, so at least i can still keep my slapstick though, haven't tried it out yet though.
This is confusing, because no matter where 1st is on the shifter it still in the same spot in the transmission. and i dont see how horsepower would make a difference in shift forward or backwards.
Did you see this ?
Quote:
This is because the forward pattern uses the shift valves to command the shifts by short circuiting the governor passage. The reverse pattern shifts directly from the manual valve, eliminating the shift valves, giving a better quality gear shift. Shifting through the 1-2, 2-3 shift valves can limit the line pressure because they influence shift timing.
Allan G.
The more power an engine makes more line pressure is needed to hold the clutches from slipping.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: JohnRR]
#857977
11/22/10 06:43 PM
11/22/10 06:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
kissmyaspen
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,413
Newark,Ohio
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The regulator valve is what controls the pressure.
79 Dodge Aspen
12.265 at 109.75 MPH
67 Satellite NSS/E
11.83 @ 110
1968 Plymouth Road Runner 472 Hemi
3 time MOPAR NATIONALS CHAMP '03 FWD and '06 & '09 Street.
'07, '10, '12 Mopar Nats runner-up Street.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: JohnRR]
#857978
11/22/10 06:44 PM
11/22/10 06:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
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Mine is reverse and I wish it was regular pattern sometimes...
like the last time I doinked it back into 2nd after a pass at the track because I had a habit of shifting to neutral after the traps. oopsie.
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: kissmyaspen]
#857979
11/22/10 09:40 PM
11/22/10 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The regulator valve is what controls the pressure.
Quote:
This is because the forward pattern uses the shift valves to command the shifts by short circuiting the governor passage. The reverse pattern shifts directly from the manual valve, eliminating the shift valves, giving a better quality gear shift. Shifting through the 1-2, 2-3 shift valves can limit the line pressure because they influence shift timing.
Allan G.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: JohnRR]
#857980
11/22/10 10:34 PM
11/22/10 10:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
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Hmmmm....... Ok so it is not recommended for higher torque and Hp levels. My engine should make north of 700 hp and more tq. I have a forward shift pattern. My car is fairly light weight (2500 lbs approx.) and will be a street strip version. What should I expect to be the down side of this shift pattern? Trans failure, or just not perform to the highest level? Would the lighter car make the lower pressure less important?  I thougth I was about finished buying stuff and could finish this car. Now my tranny and shifter are in question! 
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: turbobitt]
#857982
11/22/10 11:08 PM
11/22/10 11:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
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Quote:
Quote:
Hmmmm....... Ok so it is not recommended for higher torque and Hp levels.
My engine should make north of 700 hp and more tq. I have a forward shift pattern. My car is fairly light weight (2500 lbs approx.) and will be a street strip version.
What should I expect to be the down side of this shift pattern? Trans failure, or just not perform to the highest level?
Would the lighter car make the lower pressure less important?
I thougth I was about finished buying stuff and could finish this car. Now my tranny and shifter are in question!
I'm using a forward pattern manual VB with my 572 Hemi. I expect to see similar HP levels but in a heavy, 4000 pound car. So far its been good BUT I haven't leaned on it yet and never raced it as of yet.
For your application, you may get away with it since you are much lighter. If it will see mostly street duty, then chances are better.
Like everything else, you won't know unitl you try.
Allan G.
Allan, I am using a 572 Hemi as well. I may just have to try it. I know that I should do some other upgrades for safety.
Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#857985
11/23/10 12:14 PM
11/23/10 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock)...
How much HP will that be? Just curious since I use a Turbo Action FMVB w/ about 600 HP and have no problems running in the 10s.
over 700hp here with foward manual vb and a slap stick and never a problem...
I still use the SlapStik shifter in my Challenger, too.
FWIW, I called up Turbo Action to ask them about which of their FMVB to use, the one w/ LBA or the one w/o. For my performance level, etc., the tech rep said to go w/ the "Race" (no LBA) version, since it would be quicker than the "Pro Street" (LBA) model, even though mine is a street/strip application.
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: BradH]
#857986
11/23/10 01:36 PM
11/23/10 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock)...
How much HP will that be? Just curious since I use a Turbo Action FMVB w/ about 600 HP and have no problems running in the 10s.
over 700hp here with foward manual vb and a slap stick and never a problem...
I still use the SlapStik shifter in my Challenger, too.
FWIW, I called up Turbo Action to ask them about which of their FMVB to use, the one w/ LBA or the one w/o. For my performance level, etc., the tech rep said to go w/ the "Race" (no LBA) version, since it would be quicker than the "Pro Street" (LBA) model, even though mine is a street/strip application.
thats why your so fast. i have the LBA version.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#2855989
12/06/20 12:50 PM
12/06/20 12:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348
Isle of Sheeps
Gtxxjon
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 348
Isle of Sheeps
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Hi Moparts, One of the best threads I've read in years! Forwards up against reverse pattern... In my race car I used a reverse pattern (no steel drum) with a good quality shifter, worked GREAT as Tony (tiger) would say. But now I want to run the stock slapstick in my 71 GTX (street-stripper) so I'm gonna go 'full manual' forward pattern and a STEEL-DRUM!  What could go wrong lol... 
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 12/06/20 12:53 PM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2856571
12/07/20 02:21 PM
12/07/20 02:21 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
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i have a duncan gate plate, but i haven't installed it yet. is that what you used on your charger ? i have an old rusted up slapstick mechanism i thought about tearing apart and possibly using parts from it, or using the parts to get an idea how the mechanism functions, then fabbing my own to turn a 69 B-body shifter into a slap stick. 
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