Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB?

Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/19/10 08:35 PM

Why is it that everyone who builds race ready transmissions will only do it with a reverse shift valve body. Personally I prefer a forward shifting manual valve body, seems more natural.. Whats the big difference?

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/19/10 08:36 PM

ill never go back to regular again! I like the reverse pattern going from neutral to 1 with 1 pump

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/19/10 08:43 PM

yep and as a safety aspect with a rev pattern you are shifting away from N instead of towards it.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/19/10 08:48 PM

purely a matter of preference. if you like forward pattern, go for it! cope has some very nice valve bodies. i have one in my turd and i absolutely love it. mine is reverse, but he and several others have forward pattern.

Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/19/10 08:54 PM

Quote:

purely a matter of preference. if you like forward pattern, go for it! cope has some very nice valve bodies. i have one in my turd and i absolutely love it. mine is reverse, but he and several others have forward pattern.

I was looking at CRT and they seem on the money..

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/19/10 09:33 PM

This makes me ask a question. What about the "clean neutral" valve bodies I have heard about? It is my understanding, that it is a reverse pattern with a second neutral at the end of the pattern. In other words, is it possible to go to neutral at the end of a run and coast down to a stop? I am thinking that is the intention and purpose behind this. Maybe I'm wrong, but haven't talked to anybody about them. Also, if that is correct, it kind of makes the reverse pattern the same as regular forward pattern as far as accidentally going to neutral on a high gear shift. Am I not seeing this right? Any explanations of the 'clean neutral' are welcome and appreciated. I would like to go to neutral after a pass, but with reverse pattern,,,,

Posted By: Crizila

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/19/10 11:06 PM

I didn't want to chop up my council, plus I wanted to use my factory shifter, so I went with a forward shifting valve body. Actually, mine is a cheeta valve body with an automatic up shift feature ( like a regular valve body ), so when I do a burn out, I just leave it in drive and it automatically upshifts to third. I then just release the line lock and roll out of the water in 3rd.

Posted By: dragram440

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/19/10 11:20 PM

Definately like the first to neutral.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 12:17 AM

Because it's cheaper.

Posted By: 383man

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 01:22 AM

We use the reverse manual in my sons Dart and my car. I myself like to pull the shifter towards me when racing. It seems more natural pulling the shifter then it does pushing it as what I would have to do with a forward valve body. Ron

Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 01:33 AM

I have a RMVB in mine and w/ a pro ratchet shifter It's a natural for me.

We put one in the 72 and W/ the factory slap stick it was a mess. I put a TA Manual/automatic FVB in it and it works great with the slap stick.

It's all just a mater of what works for what you want to do.

Posted By: Twin Turbo Mower

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 01:41 AM

I have a griner reverse in mine. I had a tci foward. I preferre the reverse pattern.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 02:33 AM

I wanted a full manual to drop the throttle pressure linkage on my 88 440 truck build,but did not want the revs shift patter for daily driveing

so I went with a forward shift,full manual,low band apply CRT valve body

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 01:21 PM

Quote:

This makes me ask a question. What about the "clean neutral" valve bodies I have heard about? It is my understanding, that it is a reverse pattern with a second neutral at the end of the pattern. In other words, is it possible to go to neutral at the end of a run and coast down to a stop? I am thinking that is the intention and purpose behind this. Maybe I'm wrong, but haven't talked to anybody about them. Also, if that is correct, it kind of makes the reverse pattern the same as regular forward pattern as far as accidentally going to neutral on a high gear shift. Am I not seeing this right? Any explanations of the 'clean neutral' are welcome and appreciated. I would like to go to neutral after a pass, but with reverse pattern,,,,

Anybody have any info on this set-up?

Posted By: kielbasa

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 01:53 PM

i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock) because he told me rmvb allows higher line pressure (or something to that effect) than fmvb......i will install the Duncan shift-r-gate, so at least i can still keep my slapstick though, haven't tried it out yet though.

Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 02:42 PM

Quote:

i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock) because he told me rmvb allows higher line pressure (or something to that effect) than fmvb......i will install the Duncan shift-r-gate, so at least i can still keep my slapstick though, haven't tried it out yet though.

I bought the gate but couldn't really figure out how to install it with up cutting up and possibly ruining the slap stik shifter.

I have no idea why the shift pattern of any VB would affect the line pressure. What I do know is we took out a TA RMVB and installed the Manual/Atuomatic VB and the shifts were just as solid with either.

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 03:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

This makes me ask a question. What about the "clean neutral" valve bodies I have heard about? It is my understanding, that it is a reverse pattern with a second neutral at the end of the pattern. In other words, is it possible to go to neutral at the end of a run and coast down to a stop? I am thinking that is the intention and purpose behind this. Maybe I'm wrong, but haven't talked to anybody about them. Also, if that is correct, it kind of makes the reverse pattern the same as regular forward pattern as far as accidentally going to neutral on a high gear shift. Am I not seeing this right? Any explanations of the 'clean neutral' are welcome and appreciated. I would like to go to neutral after a pass, but with reverse pattern,,,,

Anybody have any info on this set-up?

CHAPPER
You are correct in your assumtion

I spoke with John Cope (CRT) and this option is only available with a trans brake. There are 2 neutrals one is after 3rd gear and the other shares the same position as reverse. To use reverse the trans brake button has to be activated.
Shift pattern; P, R&N, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, N
RMVB pattern; P, R, N, 1st, 2nd, 3rd

I like to go in neutral after the run also.
At the moment my Quarter Stick is modified in the gate to slap it from 3rd to neutral after the run

Also talked with him about using a Forward VB and was recommended not to use with my HP & TQ level

Really don't want to spend $800.00 for a Trans Brake VB that I'll never use being a Foot Brake racer.

Hope this clarifies things

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 04:18 PM

Greg,,,,empty your PM box

I just pecked out a message for about 20 minutes ,,,AND,,, unable to deliver

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 04:38 PM

I'm so sorry, I hate when that happens to me

All clear & sending U a PM

Posted By: BradH

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/20/10 07:58 PM

Quote:

i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock)...

How much HP will that be? Just curious since I use a Turbo Action FMVB w/ about 600 HP and have no problems running in the 10s.

Posted By: kielbasa

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/21/10 01:02 AM

I told him hp level will be between 5 and 600......he said he could do it, but not recommend it.

Posted By: onebaddakota

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/21/10 06:12 PM

I've run both on the street and strip. I've lost races with the forward-bumping into neutral from the 2nd to 3rd shift is way too easy. I've also been told that the reverse is easier on the tranny if you do a lot of street miles.
Tom

Posted By: ross

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/22/10 12:36 AM

I too like the foreward shift pattern as it mimicks the factory pattern. I am old and have been afaid of putting the tranny into a lower gear at the top end. I use the turbo action fmvb but I believe it cannot be made without the low band apply and for the serious racer this would slow them down a bit hence the populatity of the mrvb.

Posted By: turbobitt

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/22/10 02:06 PM

Quote:

Why is it that everyone who builds race ready transmissions will only do it with a reverse shift valve body. Personally I prefer a forward shifting manual valve body, seems more natural.. Whats the big difference?

It is more than a matter of preference. This is because the forward pattern uses the shift valves to command the shifts by short circuiting the governor passage. The reverse pattern shifts directly from the manual valve, eliminating the shift valves, giving a better quality gear shift. Shifting through the 1-2, 2-3 shift valves can limit the line pressure because they influence shift timing.
Allan G.

Posted By: kissmyaspen

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/22/10 03:25 PM

Quote:

i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock) because he told me rmvb allows higher line pressure (or something to that effect) than fmvb......i will install the Duncan shift-r-gate, so at least i can still keep my slapstick though, haven't tried it out yet though.

This is confusing, because no matter where 1st is on the shifter it still in the same spot in the transmission. and i dont see how horsepower would make a difference in shift forward or backwards.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/22/10 06:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock) because he told me rmvb allows higher line pressure (or something to that effect) than fmvb......i will install the Duncan shift-r-gate, so at least i can still keep my slapstick though, haven't tried it out yet though.

This is confusing, because no matter where 1st is on the shifter it still in the same spot in the transmission. and i dont see how horsepower would make a difference in shift forward or backwards.

Did you see this ?

Quote:

This is because the forward pattern uses the shift valves to command the shifts by short circuiting the governor passage. The reverse pattern shifts directly from the manual valve, eliminating the shift valves, giving a better quality gear shift. Shifting through the 1-2, 2-3 shift valves can limit the line pressure because they influence shift timing.
Allan G.

The more power an engine makes more line pressure is needed to hold the clutches from slipping.

Posted By: kissmyaspen

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/22/10 10:43 PM

The regulator valve is what controls the pressure.

Posted By: BBR

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/22/10 10:44 PM

Mine is reverse and I wish it was regular pattern sometimes...

like the last time I doinked it back into 2nd after a pass at the track because I had a habit of shifting to neutral after the traps. oopsie.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/23/10 01:40 AM

Quote:

The regulator valve is what controls the pressure.

Quote:

This is because the forward pattern uses the shift valves to command the shifts by short circuiting the governor passage. The reverse pattern shifts directly from the manual valve, eliminating the shift valves, giving a better quality gear shift. Shifting through the 1-2, 2-3 shift valves can limit the line pressure because they influence shift timing.
Allan G.

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/23/10 02:34 AM

Hmmmm....... Ok so it is not recommended for higher torque and Hp levels.
My engine should make north of 700 hp and more tq. I have a forward shift pattern. My car is fairly light weight (2500 lbs approx.) and will be a street strip version.
What should I expect to be the down side of this shift pattern? Trans failure, or just not perform to the highest level?
Would the lighter car make the lower pressure less important?

I thougth I was about finished buying stuff and could finish this car. Now my tranny and shifter are in question!

Posted By: turbobitt

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/23/10 02:44 AM

Quote:

Hmmmm....... Ok so it is not recommended for higher torque and Hp levels.
My engine should make north of 700 hp and more tq. I have a forward shift pattern. My car is fairly light weight (2500 lbs approx.) and will be a street strip version.
What should I expect to be the down side of this shift pattern? Trans failure, or just not perform to the highest level?
Would the lighter car make the lower pressure less important?
I thougth I was about finished buying stuff and could finish this car. Now my tranny and shifter are in question!

I'm using a forward pattern manual VB with my 572 Hemi. I expect to see similar HP levels but in a heavy, 4000 pound car. So far its been good BUT I haven't leaned on it yet and never raced it as of yet.
For your application, you may get away with it since you are much lighter. If it will see mostly street duty, then chances are better.
Like everything else, you won't know unitl you try.
Allan G.

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/23/10 03:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hmmmm....... Ok so it is not recommended for higher torque and Hp levels.
My engine should make north of 700 hp and more tq. I have a forward shift pattern. My car is fairly light weight (2500 lbs approx.) and will be a street strip version.
What should I expect to be the down side of this shift pattern? Trans failure, or just not perform to the highest level?
Would the lighter car make the lower pressure less important?
I thougth I was about finished buying stuff and could finish this car. Now my tranny and shifter are in question!

I'm using a forward pattern manual VB with my 572 Hemi. I expect to see similar HP levels but in a heavy, 4000 pound car. So far its been good BUT I haven't leaned on it yet and never raced it as of yet.
For your application, you may get away with it since you are much lighter. If it will see mostly street duty, then chances are better.
Like everything else, you won't know unitl you try.
Allan G.

Allan, I am using a 572 Hemi as well. I may just have to try it. I know that I should do some other upgrades for safety.
Thanks,
Mark

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/23/10 03:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock)...

How much HP will that be? Just curious since I use a Turbo Action FMVB w/ about 600 HP and have no problems running in the 10s.

over 700hp here with foward manual vb and a slap stick and never a problem. i personally think the slap stick is one of the best shifters there is. i made a reverse lockout for mine and whenever i try an aftermaret shifter i always hate it

Posted By: kissmyaspen

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/23/10 03:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The regulator valve is what controls the pressure.

Quote:

This is because the forward pattern uses the shift valves to command the shifts by short circuiting the governor passage. The reverse pattern shifts directly from the manual valve, eliminating the shift valves, giving a better quality gear shift. Shifting through the 1-2, 2-3 shift valves can limit the line pressure because they influence shift timing.
Allan G.

Now i can see this happening more with a shift kit but not with a manual valve body. evrything you read in the transmission books says that its a personal prference to using a forward or reverse vb. and the only difference u have in line pressure with manual valve bodies is if it has a brake in it or not. the brake has more pressure.

Posted By: BradH

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/23/10 04:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock)...

How much HP will that be? Just curious since I use a Turbo Action FMVB w/ about 600 HP and have no problems running in the 10s.

over 700hp here with foward manual vb and a slap stick and never a problem...

I still use the SlapStik shifter in my Challenger, too.

FWIW, I called up Turbo Action to ask them about which of their FMVB to use, the one w/ LBA or the one w/o. For my performance level, etc., the tech rep said to go w/ the "Race" (no LBA) version, since it would be quicker than the "Pro Street" (LBA) model, even though mine is a street/strip application.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 11/23/10 05:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

i REALLY wanted to keep my slapstick, but trans builder talked me out of fmvb (since i'll have considerably more horsepower than stock)...

How much HP will that be? Just curious since I use a Turbo Action FMVB w/ about 600 HP and have no problems running in the 10s.

over 700hp here with foward manual vb and a slap stick and never a problem...

I still use the SlapStik shifter in my Challenger, too.

FWIW, I called up Turbo Action to ask them about which of their FMVB to use, the one w/ LBA or the one w/o. For my performance level, etc., the tech rep said to go w/ the "Race" (no LBA) version, since it would be quicker than the "Pro Street" (LBA) model, even though mine is a street/strip application.

thats why your so fast. i have the LBA version.

Posted By: Gtxxjon

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 12/06/20 04:50 PM

Hi Moparts,

One of the best threads I've read in years!
Forwards up against reverse pattern...
In my race car I used a reverse pattern (no steel drum) with a good quality shifter, worked GREAT as Tony (tiger) would say.

But now I want to run the stock slapstick in my 71 GTX (street-stripper) so I'm gonna go 'full manual' forward pattern and a STEEL-DRUM!

What could go wrong lol...

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 12/07/20 05:39 AM

let me know haw the shift-r-gate works for you.
I installed one in the '71 Charger, and the button on the shifter does not seem right, and the shifter feels stiff and notchy, but it does work.

Posted By: moparx

Re: Reverse manual Valve body vs Forward Shifting VB? - 12/07/20 06:21 PM

i have a duncan gate plate, but i haven't installed it yet.
is that what you used on your charger ?
i have an old rusted up slapstick mechanism i thought about tearing apart and possibly using parts from it, or using the parts to get an idea how the mechanism functions, then fabbing my own to turn a 69 B-body shifter into a slap stick.