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Done for the season...(Update) #837927
10/24/10 10:30 PM
10/24/10 10:30 PM
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Posts: 1,443
Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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Well, the motor let go in the lights at Capitol tonight. Ran rough to the turnoff, then quit with water pouring out of the driver's header after Kevin got it stopped. DRE diaper did it's job if anything came through the pan or block (haven't pulled it yet). Water poured out of #1 and #3 plugs with #1 having a flattened electrode. Valvetrain looks OK, but the motor is locked solid. Will get it apart next weekend with pics. And we had one more points race with the 422 series

Last edited by Dads426; 10/25/10 10:00 PM.


2012 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2013 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2014 422 Allstars NSS Champion
Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837928
10/24/10 10:33 PM
10/24/10 10:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Balt. Md
Bummer as I did not see that. Gary ended up winning it all. Ron

Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837929
10/24/10 10:34 PM
10/24/10 10:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
I hope it's minimal

Re: Done for the season... [Re: 383man] #837930
10/24/10 10:39 PM
10/24/10 10:39 PM
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Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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Quote:

Bummer as I did not see that. Gary ended up winning it all. Ron




Glad to hear Gary won it. If the payout was like last year he probably got $800.



2012 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2013 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2014 422 Allstars NSS Champion
Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837931
10/24/10 10:58 PM
10/24/10 10:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
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Balt. Md
Quote:

Quote:

Bummer as I did not see that. Gary ended up winning it all. Ron




Glad to hear Gary won it. If the payout was like last year he probably got $800.


Add $200. to that. He was very happy. Ron

Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837932
10/25/10 02:07 PM
10/25/10 02:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1
1Fast340 Offline
master
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sweden
sorry about your bad luck,hope the damage is minimal

Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837933
10/25/10 09:36 PM
10/25/10 09:36 PM
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Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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Pulled the head tonight and #1 exhaust valve snapped the head off, flipped over in the cylinder and punched a big hole in the head, plus cracked the block. I think the block can be sleeved so if I can find another piston we may go that route as a spare motor (only has about 50 runs on it). The Dick Landy head is toast. The valves were Ferreira stainless versions; not cheap and the guides were bronze-inserts. Everything was checked by my machine shop earlier this year, so the only thing I can think of is component failure or the valve stuck in the guide. We had Teflon seals on the valves and they may limit the amount of oil to the exhaust (just a guess on my part); they may work too well. Piston to valve clearance was more than adequate and there is no evidence of other valves contacting the piston (if anything, the intakes would hit before the exhaust). Major bummer It's all Mr. Yuck's fault. His engine is contagious.

6268758-Picture001.jpg (127 downloads)
Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837934
10/25/10 09:37 PM
10/25/10 09:37 PM
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Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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Note in the picture above the new dual sparkplug max wedge head...

6268763-100_0363.jpg (121 downloads)
Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837935
10/25/10 09:38 PM
10/25/10 09:38 PM
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Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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This fell on the floor when we pulled the head.

6268767-Picture002.jpg (130 downloads)
Re: Done for the season...(Update) [Re: Dads426] #837936
10/25/10 09:41 PM
10/25/10 09:41 PM
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Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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OK, so what is the general consensus on why an engine drops a valve? Guide too tight (sticking)/loose (off-center on seat)? Lack of oil? Material failure? Enquiring minds want to know.



2012 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2013 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2014 422 Allstars NSS Champion
Re: Done for the season...(Update) [Re: Dads426] #837937
10/25/10 10:18 PM
10/25/10 10:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 311
Kingsville, Md
grncpe Offline
enthusiast
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Kingsville, Md
Who does your machine work?

Re: Done for the season...(Update) [Re: grncpe] #837938
10/25/10 10:26 PM
10/25/10 10:26 PM
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Posts: 1,443
Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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Rockville Ring & Bearing did the heads, Burtonsville did the shortblock. Rockville said the guides were OK; seats were touched up when the new valves were purchased. Guides were new when we got the heads. They were in the trunk of a 63 max wedge Dodge from California that a friend bought. Will probably let Burtonsville do the heads next time...



2012 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2013 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2014 422 Allstars NSS Champion
Re: Done for the season...(Update) [Re: Dads426] #837939
10/25/10 10:34 PM
10/25/10 10:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 311
Kingsville, Md
grncpe Offline
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Posts: 311
Kingsville, Md
Steve is a good guy.I dealt with him when he was @ Racing Parts...FWIW Ed Thompson from Thompson Machine does really good work too.Been going to him since 1990.And my junk rolls pretty good.Tom

Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837940
10/25/10 10:38 PM
10/25/10 10:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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State of confusion
Sorry about the damage...........as far as teflon seals, I ran em for several thousand street miles and several passes for 5 1/2 years w/out issues. Maybe tight guides?


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Done for the season... [Re: Thumperdart] #837941
10/25/10 10:52 PM
10/25/10 10:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 990
Vacherie, Louisiana
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SuperStocker Offline
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Vacherie, Louisiana
My guess would be inadequate spring pressure but, if they were the Ferrea 5000 series valve, they are really nothing more than a street replacement.

Re: Done for the season... [Re: SuperStocker] #837942
10/25/10 11:06 PM
10/25/10 11:06 PM
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Posts: 1,443
Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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Springs are Trick Flow with seat/open pressure spec'd for the cam (MP 590). I checked them before installation. Valves are Ferrea 6217 & 6250.



2012 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2013 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2014 422 Allstars NSS Champion
Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837943
10/26/10 01:19 PM
10/26/10 01:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Note in the picture above the new dual sparkplug max wedge head...




mine looks worse... I'll make you a killer deal on my slighty hurt 440 block...comes w/ 6 good diamond pistons..lol
Sorry to here about your troubles guys. Thought I was the only one. Well at least Kev can help me drop my new enigne when I get it...hahaha

6269717-6231212-001.jpg (57 downloads)
Re: Done for the season... [Re: Mr.Yuck] #837944
10/26/10 01:24 PM
10/26/10 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Soon to be between the fenders...once it's painted Hemi Orange of course

6269725-1023101511.jpg (81 downloads)
Re: Done for the season... [Re: SuperStocker] #837945
10/26/10 01:36 PM
10/26/10 01:36 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,443
Maryland
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Dads426 Offline OP
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Maryland
Quote:

My guess would be inadequate spring pressure but, if they were the Ferrea 5000 series valve, they are really nothing more than a street replacement.




Interesting reply from Ferrea: "I would need to see the valves to do an analysis, but generally when a head of an exhaust valve comes off the valve is out of control, ie not enough spring pressure on the seat, so the valve is bouncing not seating. This bouncing creates harmonics in the valvetrain and lessen spring pressures further."

I wouldn't have guessed this given that we set up the springs to meet the pressures spec'd by Mopar Performance. I am reluctant to go higher for fear of wiping the cam. 6000 series are considered their competition valves, so a street valve may have failed sooner.



2012 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2013 422 Allstars NSS Champion
2014 422 Allstars NSS Champion
Re: Done for the season... [Re: Dads426] #837946
10/26/10 01:41 PM
10/26/10 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
440Jim Offline
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Posts: 16,925
NC
Quote:

Springs are Trick Flow with seat/open pressure spec'd for the cam (MP 590). I checked them before installation. Valves are Ferrea 6217 & 6250.


Ouch, sorry to hear of these failures.

I don't think the MP 590 needs a lot of spring pressure, but what were the actual installed numbers? (130/330?). Check the spring to see if it is broke, and if not, the current pressures. Since it broke at the finish line, what was the max RPM?


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
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