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Getting a 727 to live #791547
09/03/10 10:18 AM 09/03/10 10:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline OP
top fuel
The Shadow  Offline OP
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T

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
Has anybody got a high hp/tq combo in a heavy car that has any tricks to keeping 3rd gear clutches in a 727?
I've tried a standard clutch set up in an a&a billet drum
Upgraded to the tcs large piston drum with 6 clutches.
Changed valve bodies from j/w to a&a.
Nothing yet has been able to hold the 3rd gear.
I'm thinking the only thing left is to up the line pressures. If that doesn't work it may mean the 727 is at the end of the line.

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791548
09/03/10 11:55 AM 09/03/10 11:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
M
maximum entropy Offline
master
maximum entropy  Offline
master
M

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
that's one thing i've never had a problem with. how much power? i've used the "blue plate" clutches in a billet drum. tell us more about your combo.

for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791549
09/03/10 12:05 PM 09/03/10 12:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
master
Dodgem  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
It's almost like you are not getting the seals in properly or the sealing rings on the input shaft and pump are not holding. Are you air testing on the bench and then assembled???
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: Dodgem] #791550
09/03/10 12:14 PM 09/03/10 12:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
M
maximum entropy Offline
master
maximum entropy  Offline
master
M

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
Quote:

It's almost like you are not getting the seals in properly or the sealing rings on the input shaft and pump are not holding. Are you air testing on the bench and then assembled???

i was thinking the same thing.

for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: maximum entropy] #791551
09/03/10 12:16 PM 09/03/10 12:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline OP
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The Shadow  Offline OP
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T

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
It's a procharged hemi making 1200hp/1000tq in a 4000lb roadrunner
I had raybestos blue clutches in the first drum with the waffle style sipes.
The tcs drum has 6 alto red clutches.
We did air checks for clutch engagements.
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791552
09/03/10 12:17 PM 09/03/10 12:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda Offline
I Live Here
DJVCuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
CRT - John Cope would be able to diagnose the issues with you.
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: maximum entropy] #791553
09/03/10 12:17 PM 09/03/10 12:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
We have many 8,9 and 10 second Mopars with 727s and some with as many as 10 race seasons with very few issues.My 65 has almost 1000 runs on the 727 with no failures.A&A billit drum,5 clutch,trans brake,billit servos and stock overrunning clutch.

[IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791554
09/03/10 12:21 PM 09/03/10 12:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
440Jim Offline
I Live Here
440Jim  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
EDIT: You posted your power/weight while I was typing.

I don't know what power/torque and weight you have, but at over 3200 pounds and 1.2x sixty foot times, I think my combo is getting high (but not awesome...).

5 clutch front drum with Alto Red Eagle clutches
5 plain steels
0.075" clearance
Griner valve body at 165 psi

3.8 lever, dual spring servo (old style), ie trying to avoid 2-3 overlap which can hurt the clutches.

I have hundreds of passes on this clutch pack. I would have to add up several logbooks and see exactly when I put these Red Eagle's in, but it could be 600 passes. The last time I had it out for inspection was 240 passes ago and the frictions and steels were excellant.

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791555
09/03/10 01:07 PM 09/03/10 01:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOrk !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
Quote:

It's a procharged hemi making 1200hp/1000tq in a 4000lb roadrunner
I had raybestos blue clutches in the first drum with the waffle style sipes.
The tcs drum has 6 alto red clutches.
We did air checks for clutch engagements.




..... and HOW MUCH line-pressure are you running ?
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: dOrk !] #791556
09/03/10 01:30 PM 09/03/10 01:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
pro stock
Big Squeeze  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Quote:

Quote:

It's a procharged hemi making 1200hp/1000tq in a 4000lb roadrunner
I had raybestos blue clutches in the first drum with the waffle style sipes.
The tcs drum has 6 alto red clutches.
We did air checks for clutch engagements.




..... and HOW MUCH line-pressure are you running ?



EXACTLY.......It'll need at least 150 to 165LBS of line pressure.....

If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791557
09/03/10 01:52 PM 09/03/10 01:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 377
NW Indiana USA
727specialist Offline
enthusiast
727specialist  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 377
NW Indiana USA
I have 727s running in the sevens, eights and nines.
High gear clutches are the easiest to make live when set up properly.
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: 727specialist] #791558
09/03/10 05:41 PM 09/03/10 05:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
master
Leon441  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Check the sealing area of the drum (you may have a steel sleeve already Rick sells them this way). If not the seals that go on the back of the pump can hurt the drum. I use the teflon ones. Can't remember but either the cast or stainless ones don't get along with alluminum.

I can't speak for JW but I have seen this before with an A&A VB. I used to wipe these clutches out about once a year with a TA VB. Like him or hate him Joe Chrisman puts extreme power through a 727. Never hurt a clutch using his Tranzact VB even the Drum looked like junk in the sealing ring area. Many people speak well of the Griner too I just never personally ran one.

Leon

Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: Leon441] #791559
09/03/10 05:57 PM 09/03/10 05:57 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,238
North Cackilacky
S
sdaurity Offline
pro stock
sdaurity  Offline
pro stock
S

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,238
North Cackilacky
Quote:

Check the sealing area of the drum (you may have a steel sleeve already Rick sells them this way). If not the seals that go on the back of the pump can hurt the drum. I use the teflon ones. Can't remember but either the cast or stainless ones don't get along with alluminum.

I can't speak for JW but I have seen this before with an A&A VB. I used to wipe these clutches out about once a year with a TA VB. Like him or hate him Joe Chrisman puts extreme power through a 727. Never hurt a clutch using his Tranzact VB even the Drum looked like junk in the sealing ring area. Many people speak well of the Griner too I just never personally ran one.

Leon



x2 on Joes valvebody, and deff. check your line pressure.

One day I will have something cool here.
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: sdaurity] #791560
09/03/10 06:16 PM 09/03/10 06:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
master
FastmOp  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
If your useing a transbreak and a 5.0 lever you will hurt parts about like your talking.
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: FastmOp] #791561
09/03/10 06:35 PM 09/03/10 06:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,055
Salina ks
572_dup2 Offline
Back On The Bumper!!
572_dup2  Offline
Back On The Bumper!!

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,055
Salina ks
I had that same problem.... the cure John Cope C.R.T.

Shawn Jennings
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: 572_dup2] #791562
09/03/10 10:33 PM 09/03/10 10:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline OP
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The Shadow  Offline OP
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Posts: 2,175
Duloc
I don't think it can be seal issues as it's all new stuff. It has done it on 2 different drums and valve bodies. The tcs drum has a 55% bigger piston and that still doesn't seem to help.
I don't know what the line pressures we have yet but once it's back together again it will be checked.
Gonna start from scratch with a new virgin case.

Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791563
09/03/10 10:37 PM 09/03/10 10:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOrk !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
Quote:

I don't think it can be seal issues as it's all new stuff. It has done it on 2 different drums and valve bodies. The tcs drum has a 55% bigger piston and that still doesn't seem to help.
I don't know what the line pressures we have yet but once it's back together again it will be checked.
Gonna start from scratch with a new virgin case.



55% bigger piston ? ..??
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: dOrk !] #791564
09/03/10 10:40 PM 09/03/10 10:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline OP
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The Shadow  Offline OP
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T

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
Quote:

Quote:

I don't think it can be seal issues as it's all new stuff. It has done it on 2 different drums and valve bodies. The tcs drum has a 55% bigger piston and that still doesn't seem to help.
I don't know what the line pressures we have yet but once it's back together again it will be checked.
Gonna start from scratch with a new virgin case.



55% bigger piston ? ..??


http://www.tcsproducts.com/details.html?id=5
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: The Shadow] #791565
09/03/10 10:45 PM 09/03/10 10:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOrk !  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
Will hold up to 6 friction plates versus 4 in the O.E.M. unit.
55%, YES that's 55% MORE Piston Apply Surface Area! This results in double the clamping force needed in third gear - Just what you need for high performance and EXTREME applications.

This is 55% more CLUTCH SURFACE ... not piston size.

You need to clear-up and make-sure of that line pressure !!
Re: Getting a 727 to live [Re: dOrk !] #791566
09/03/10 11:14 PM 09/03/10 11:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
Kam*Kuda Offline
master
Kam*Kuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,243
Canada
You had an earlie issue.. Is it the same issue or different?

1970 Barracuda Convertible
1968 Satellite Street Strip car
1654.5 Mustang
1955 Land Rover
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