Brother Scott! I am being careful but also honest! Think about it. If this insignificant "self worth" Broadcast sheet malarkey had never been "invented" as THE WORD in our Hobby, it would not even be an issue for discussion. It appears that the Hobby may have invented their own unnecessary problem!

Dave, as you know, you have my utmost respect, but on this point we are polar opposites.

I know we see things different Scott but take just a moment to think outside of the box. Does it make ANY sense that a car with a non original engine be worth more ONLY because it has an original Broadcast sheet? What about Los Angeles cars? Should they be penalized in value or assumed lessor of a collector car? What about vehicles (Hamtramck, St. Louis, Lynch Road, etc....) that for some reason or another, did NOT come with one? Maybe the employees ate too much chocolate for lunch and a run of 40 cars were assembled with passion and no left over paperwork was left in the nooks and crannies! I personally LIKE and choose to buy vehicles that have original paperwork. I also only want those cars that have never been messed with! It makes it a bit easier to identify things that were factory correct!

For years in many of the brands (such as GM) the Protecto Plate was the preferred form of documentation. There was also the build sheet which was also a great suppliment to the protecto plate. As time went on, both forms became more susceptible to reproduction. I remember when I had my bigblock Corvette and Chevelle which was documented with the bill of sale and the above documentation, it seemed more advantageous for resale value.

Big block Corvette prices went thru the roof and it seemed that there were 3000 427/425 HP cars out there even though Chevy made far fewer than that. People were restamping blocks everywhere and you could buy or rent the tools from the classifieds. I see Daves arguement and its a good one, valid too, but I would think I would give additional value to a car that would have multiple forms of documentation.

Would I pay more for a car with a build sheet and a non-matching number engine? Probably not. Would I pay more for a car with a build sheet, and a numbers matching engine? Hmm probably so, especially if the car is an upper end automobile like a 440 six pack, Hemi etc, 340 six pack.

I have one of those California built cars with no build sheet. And yes, the build sheet wasnt present and wasnt meant to be a form of documentation, as assembly line workers did usually discard. We have gotten a bit off the subject to the original post. And I sometimes like to play the old Devils advocate. I think Scott unintentionally slipped on the ole slippery slope when he said "if it wasnt original, it was a fake." I dont think you should confine that to documentation only. The roles Dave and Scott play to the restoration hobbyist is very important, and I dont think the poster was trying to fool anyone with making up a repro broadcast sheet. Ive thought about doing the same thing from time to time as a conversation piece. I couldnt reproduce the font of course, and couldnt accurately reproduce the true options in the boxes, and I think it only ethical to type in reproduction at the bottom. My ole 70 Challenger RT/SE is just a non numbers matching 383 car anyway, and you cant make a prize winning bull out of a sow anyway. Fit and finish on a rotisserie is what Im trying to accomplish not complete factory authenticity mistakes and all. d I will be looking for Daves "top it off" items such as stickers, door vin tag, emissions tag, yada yada yada. Just cause I like things looking new, not because Im trying to fake out anyone.

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I think Scott unintentionally slipped on the ole slippery slope when he said "if it wasnt original, it was a fake." I dont think you should confine that to documentation only.

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I'm sorry but I don't agree, I don't think I slipped at all. There is a clear difference between documentation and parts. I'm actually amazed that anyone fails to recognize that?

I like having a Broadcast sheet, especially considering Chrysler's inability to keep and protect production records.

Just be glad you don't have an air cooled VW, the only data plate on them is a VIN. No fender tags or any other information on the car that would hint to the installed accessories, paint or interior. The plus side of this situation is that the VW hobbyist don't seem as anal about paint and interior colors and options. As long as your car is painted a color that was available during it's production, they seem to be happy. Same goes for accessories. Must be nice. eh?

.... but VW has their "production records" for those interested.

Without the original build sheet many options on a car cannot be documented. You cannot know exactly what the car came from the factory with.
Simple as that.
Now continue the

I'm done debating the issue, my opinion has been posted and it's not going to change, to each his own

I love these discussions. We have two of the biggest bats in the Mopar restoration field going toe to toe. I highly respect both of them and feel greatly indebted to them for their investment in this hobby. I also think BOTH of their opinions are valid.
It is easy for me, I have a "lowly" 73 Cuda. The engine matches, the build sheet under the back seat was in decent shape. The one behind the glove box disintegrated, I kept the bigger pieces. The fender tag is original. My car will never be worth what Scott's or Dave's cars are worth but it is mine and has been for 30 years. That is all I care about.
Craig

I would say the sheets are more "needed" for the hi end cars, i wasn't going to turn down my demon 340 because someone added sport mirrors, wheel lip & belt mouldings, and hood pins, it's missing the build sheet but did find the owners of the car from 1973 to 79 they sent me pics which to me are of more value

Thanks for your support Craig! One thing I have to say is that YOU guys are the ones that allow us to do what we do. We are servants to everyone that makes up our Hobby! There are certainly no insignificant vehicles. The people and the relationships built along the way are what makes this all worth while.

I wanted to say that Scott and I actually stand shoulder to shoulder! You couldn't ask for a more sincere or intelligent advocate when it comes to these cars. I also want to say that Mike (A12) REALLY hit home in his last post. He is 1000% correct with his statement about Window Stickers. Many people do not know that ECS has a separate division that is the support and backbone of our company. Just recently we were approached by a new Electric Automobile Manufacturer to produce (not reproduce) every label for their new cars including the Monroney Sticker. Our company works with State Legislators, the NICB, Chief Investigators for the Auto Manufacturers as well as their Corporate Attorneys. (It took us over a year to have our reproduction Window Stickers approved by Chrysler.) ECS was also given approval to manufacture reproduction Broadcast Sheets (with certain restrictions) but refused the opportunity due to the negative fallout that might result. The point I am trying to make here is that certain aspects of our thought process has become backwards due to some unwritten rule that is accepted throughout the industry. Like Mike said in his post, the Monroney label is MUCH more important than the Build-sheet and is held to strict Federal Government regulations and guidelines. Why isn't there the same sentiment and "taboo" over those items? As a matter of fact, some who have posted in this thread about the Broadcast Sheets (being sacred and off limits) have purchased Monroney Stickers from ECS! Isn't THAT actually a character contradiction in ethics and concept logic?

I see fake window stickers being passed off as the real thing all the time. Sellers often give themselves a bad name by withholding the facts.

I think a BCS is important to find out how a car was originally built. It's sort of the DNA of the car.

Lets say you buy a one owner car and your intentions are to restore it to the highest level but it doesn't have a BCS.
Before the original owner died he told you it was 100% original and even showed you pictures of it back in 1970....

But what he forgot to mention...The day he first saw the car on the lot at the dealer he didn't like the standard hub caps so he tells the salesman "see those hub caps on the other car there?...I want those on this car...then you'll have a deal" Before you could can say OE Gold the salesman swaps the hub caps.....

Now 40 years later, you and everybody else ASSUMES those hub caps are correct....BUT ONLY a BCS can prove the car was born with the standard caps.....

SEE....ahhhhhh..

Funny you should mention that example Alan.
Several years ago I spotted a T/A that looked alot like mine at a local show. And it was in unrestored original condition. As I was checking it out, the owner pulled out his Mr. Norms paperwork, and it was then that I noticed that the car was 2 VIN's past mine!!!
I started chatting with the owner and he told me he found BCS's in his car for the one after his, and it was identical to his and also a Mr. Norms car.
Later after contacting Barry I found that mine was the 1st of 4 identical consecutively VIN'ed T/A's ordered by Mr. Norm's.
The car at the show had rallye wheels on it, and on his sales paperwork someone had written "add rallye wheels". The owner said the owner of the car after his said his paperwork had the same thing written on it.
And someone had started to write that on my sales paperwork, but it had been scribbled out.
So on at least 2 of these four identical steel wheel T/A's, their first owners rolled off Mr. Norms lot in their new T/A's with rallyes in place of their original steelies.