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Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying #612410 02/13/10 01:46 PM 02/13/10 01:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 13 Jacksboro, TX R rodthedeerguy OP member
rodthedeerguy OP member R Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 13 Jacksboro, TX	I have a 2006 purchase date MP 472 Hemi in my 70 4-spd Challenger. I posted yesterday about an off idle snap to WOT stumble that seems to be related to an improperly installed/degreed cam. Am curious about any facts, hands on experience or opinions anyone has about these style hemi crate motors? Is Ray Barton a better choice than MP? I see Barton is assembling the current 528 and offers a 650 hp 472 starting at $15K.

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: rodthedeerguy] #612411 02/13/10 02:37 PM 02/13/10 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,083 Niles , Ohio T therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah. T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,083 Niles , Ohio	He assembles them for MP.Whats that tell you.He has been doing Hemis for years.Rocky Last edited by therocks; 02/13/10 02:37 PM. Chrysler Firepower

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: therocks] #612412 02/13/10 09:36 PM 02/13/10 09:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 13 Jacksboro, TX R rodthedeerguy OP member
rodthedeerguy OP member R Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 13 Jacksboro, TX	I am going to contact his company Monday and see if he has a cam or intake or any suggestions about sorting out my problem. Thx for your input. Update: Spoke to Ray Barton yerterday. Says early MP crate motors are of poor parts and assembly quality. Says he saw at cumins with his own eyes heads pulled right out of the box installed on the shortblock with metal shavings in the ports and on the heads among other alarming procedures. Says he has inspected and fixed many MP crates and has seen a myriad of problems. I do not believe he was exaggerating. I believe his reputaion and business practices are more important than misleading me. Would anyone disagree about Ray? Can he be trusted, completely? He sure was helpful. He is a fan of the 528 over 472's and 426's. Last edited by rodthedeerguy; 02/16/10 02:29 PM.

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: rodthedeerguy] #612413 02/16/10 02:55 PM 02/16/10 02:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 13 Jacksboro, TX R rodthedeerguy OP member
rodthedeerguy OP member R Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 13 Jacksboro, TX	Ray Barton says MP crate motors have poor parts and build quality. See my edited response above about my conversation with Ray yesterday.

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: rodthedeerguy] #612414 02/16/10 04:05 PM 02/16/10 04:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,041 michigan woods imfixinmopars426 master
imfixinmopars426 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,041 michigan woods	when we had a 426SH built by him,he was very nice,and full of info,even got a personal tour of the shop...and then the engine also ran very nice!! i would trust him more than a bunch of guys throwing crates together at cummins,for sure!!!!!!!

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: imfixinmopars426] #612415 02/16/10 07:12 PM 02/16/10 07:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,118 at large M moparphillie top fuel
moparphillie top fuel M Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,118 at large	You might want to contact Gary Stanton at Stanton Racing in Nicholasville, KY. Gary builds all of the 426 and 472 crate engines for Mopar Performance. Gary will build an engine specifically for a customer. Since he builds all of these engines for M/P, he has all of the parts needed in stock with a turnaround time of 2 to 3 weeks max. He will also run the new engine on his engine dyno at no additional charge. The customer is invited to be present during the dyno run as well..

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: imfixinmopars426] #612416 02/19/10 12:34 AM 02/19/10 12:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 13 Jacksboro, TX R rodthedeerguy OP member
rodthedeerguy OP member R Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 13 Jacksboro, TX	Thanks for your input.

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: rodthedeerguy] #612417 02/19/10 01:28 PM 02/19/10 01:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,290 New Kent, Va. bobbyb pro stock
bobbyb pro stock Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,290 New Kent, Va.	I have a early MP 426 Hemi crate and everything seems fine. I've heard alot of negative comments about these motors after I bought mine and was really nervous about the quality of it. But I decided to go forward with what I had and put it in the car without going though it. I did all the pre-start recommendations and everthing is still ok after 3 years. Guess I got lucky? 2004 Dodge Rumble Bee 5.7 Hemi 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: bobbyb] #612418 02/19/10 04:04 PM 02/19/10 04:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,083 Niles , Ohio T therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah. T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,083 Niles , Ohio	bobby with the early crates it was a crap shoot.Some were great others total junk that took a lot to get right.You must have got one of the good ones.Rocky Chrysler Firepower

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: rodthedeerguy] #612419 02/20/10 06:12 PM 02/20/10 06:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 878 hudson valley n.y. G GEORGE68HEMIRR super street
GEORGE68HEMIRR super street G Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 878 hudson valley n.y.	Quote: I am going to contact his company Monday and see if he has a cam or intake or any suggestions about sorting out my problem. Thx for your input. Update: Spoke to Ray Barton yerterday. Says early MP crate motors are of poor parts and assembly quality. Says he saw at cumins with his own eyes heads pulled right out of the box installed on the shortblock with metal shavings in the ports and on the heads among other alarming procedures. Says he has inspected and fixed many MP crates and has seen a myriad of problems. I do not believe he was exaggerating. I believe his reputaion and business practices are more important than misleading me. Would anyone disagree about Ray? Can he be trusted, completely? He sure was helpful. He is a fan of the 528 over 472's and 426's. ray barton is no good ....do yourself a favor and call tim bannings.....you can trust him and he stands behind his work...http://forhemisonly.com/

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: GEORGE68HEMIRR] #612420 02/20/10 07:37 PM 02/20/10 07:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,488 Annapolis, MD, USA V Vert master
Vert master V Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,488 Annapolis, MD, USA	Quote: ray barton is no good ....do yourself a favor and call tim bannings.....you can trust him and he stands behind his work...http://forhemisonly.com/ I have a Barton 528 hemi. Ray showed me around the shop including a bunch of blocks he was REJECTING. He showed me the problems with them. They check every one well for core shift and other problems. Barton is an excellent Hemi builder. Tim Banning also has an excellent reputation and all things being equal it'd be a tossup. Vert > [img]http://i.imgur.com/JHXmM.jpg[/img]71 Barracuda vert[/url] \| Hemi idling on dyno \| Hemi Dyno pull

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: Vert] #612421 02/20/10 11:56 PM 02/20/10 11:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,488 Annapolis, MD, USA V Vert master
Vert master V Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,488 Annapolis, MD, USA	A consideration is where you live. MidAtlantic states and south: John Aruzza or Ray Barton Northern US & Canada - Tim Banning http://www.dragracecentral.com/drcstory.asp?ID=2348 calls Barton Ray Barton, the premier Hemi engine builder in the country. Vert > [img]http://i.imgur.com/JHXmM.jpg[/img]71 Barracuda vert[/url] \| Hemi idling on dyno \| Hemi Dyno pull

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: GEORGE68HEMIRR] #612422 02/21/10 10:19 AM 02/21/10 10:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,715 closer to Canadian beer! torkrules I'm neurotic
torkrules I'm neurotic Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,715 closer to Canadian beer!	Quote: Quote: I am going to contact his company Monday and see if he has a cam or intake or any suggestions about sorting out my problem. Thx for your input. Update: Spoke to Ray Barton yerterday. Says early MP crate motors are of poor parts and assembly quality. Says he saw at cumins with his own eyes heads pulled right out of the box installed on the shortblock with metal shavings in the ports and on the heads among other alarming procedures. Says he has inspected and fixed many MP crates and has seen a myriad of problems. I do not believe he was exaggerating. I believe his reputaion and business practices are more important than misleading me. Would anyone disagree about Ray? Can he be trusted, completely? He sure was helpful. He is a fan of the 528 over 472's and 426's. ray barton is no good ....do yourself a favor and call tim bannings.....you can trust him and he stands behind his work...http://forhemisonly.com/ I vote Tim Banning. He could probably build you more engine for the same money.

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: rodthedeerguy] #612423 03/02/11 08:25 PM 03/02/11 08:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon D desomod member
desomod member D Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon	I have an '08 manefacture date 528" built by Ray Barton that is a MP product. It seems to run well. I have a few questions about this engine as well that I cannot get ansewered either by MP or RBRE. I have seen this engine advertised as having 10.1:1, 10.25:1 and 10.5:1 CR in different articles and adds. Also I have seen anywhere from 610 to 645HP advertised. Which is it?? Also on the cam, I asked for confirmation of lift, duration etc and if it is as advertised in the MP advertisments. MP tech line said to contact RBRE. I did and RBRE says they are prohibited by Mopar from disclosing that info! Perhaps you guys can help! I am running the Stage V intake with dual Eddy 650's, TTI 2 1/8 into 3". It is making 9" vacume at 800rpm idle.

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: desomod] #612424 03/02/11 09:04 PM 03/02/11 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,379 Houston,Tx. L Lee446 pro stock
Lee446 pro stock L Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,379 Houston,Tx.	Current RB/MP 528 crates are rated at 610 hp. In a article I read, Barton says they are all dynoing at 640+. Some of the crates used Comp cams and some used Engle K-8's. The Engle, if I recall correctly from a conversation with them was around 244@50, .559 lift on 108. I believe I had read the comps were a bit smaller. I have no idea who Barton is using. My experience and that of many others here, is that the quality of build from Cummins is junk. My 528 was not honed with torque plates, and was a bit oversized(bore) to boot. Valve guides were so loose, 3 ex valves were bent right off the bat. Rod bearings were chamfered by Fred Flintstone with a stone axe. No windage tray installed, sloppy timing set, adnauseum. With Stanton and Barton as builders, I would have confidence in them, but I would buy a custom engine from them for probably the same money, that would be tailored to your specs, other than a "Crate" build.

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: Lee446] #612425 03/02/11 10:38 PM 03/02/11 10:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon D desomod member
desomod member D Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 74 Oregon	Im with you there Lee. I got my 528 already installed in a car I recently purchased with about 900 miles on it otherwise I would have done a direct purchase. I will eventually get around to doing a leak down test on it to see how healthy it is. It does seem to run pretty well once sorted out. I found Tim Banning of FHO to be awesome to work with. He helped me alot in sorting out carb issues and answered my pesky questions. Don at FBO systems has been great with ignition.

Re: Which 426/472/528 Hemi crate motor worth buying [Re: desomod] #612426 03/03/11 12:29 AM 03/03/11 12:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA Slipknot440 master
Slipknot440 master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,287 Dalton, MA	After my cam went in my 426 crate I found an extremely reputable engine builder and mopar enthusiest around here who redid the whole engine, from heads, valves, roller cam...the works at an extremely fair price. He has a great shop with a dyno too. If you want his info PM me

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