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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: blownzoom440]
#518059
11/08/09 02:03 PM
11/08/09 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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Roots is tough to intercool that's for sure. Instant throttle response, and low-mid range torque though. Procharger is down on boost at low-mid range, but a loose converter can usually overcome most of it. As for reliability, my Dad's small block has had the same used roots, which was bought out of the "for sale" section in the newspaper, since 1985. They both have their advantages and disadvantages though. It really depends on the application. To add to the list. Roots- Low end torque like you've never felt in your life. Procharger- Limited low-mid range boost (which can be a good thing in a small tire car) Serp. belt problems. Expensive. Cost is debatable though depending on power level but... 8-71 will move 2000cfm at 6,000 RPM. 8-71 kits are ~$3700 for blower/intake/pulley's etc. Then +carbs. 2000 cfm is equal to an F1-R? F1-R/F2 kits no intercooler, but with a carb and blowoff valve are around $6,000~$6500 I'm sure I can buy carbs for less then the difference. And at that point you're not intercooled on the pro-charged system anyway, so the gains aren't that huge. But I agree, for an octane limited gasoline motor, you can't touch a procharger for HP... except with a turbo of course... 
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: dizuster]
#518060
11/08/09 02:46 PM
11/08/09 02:46 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 902
Mopar Lane,Mississippi
67HEMI
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 902
Mopar Lane,Mississippi
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I have built two root style 440's. The first one in '85 had a 6-71 Mooneyham 1 to 1 with teflon strips and two 750's and 8.5 to 1 trw's. The second was in '99 and had a BDS street blower with BDS EFI and bugcatcher injector hat.It had 7.5 to 1 wiseco's and was 10% overdriven. The carb setup with teflon stripped rotors made a lot more power. That motor had stock rods,906 heads that I ported  and a purple shaft cam with stamped steel rockers. In a 4200 pound 69 Coronet 4 speed it ran 10.20 at 135 in 1985. I said all that to say if you do an 8-71 get the rotors stripped for better clearances and sealing for more boost. The build I am contemplating now is a twin turbo setup for the streeability. It is hard to beat the looks of a 6-71 with a bug catcher on the street. This was my '65 on the cover of Car Craft January 2000. It wasn't as fast as my first but was way better looking imo.Lost it in a divorce   
'33 Plymouth 5 Window Coupe Blown Aluminum HEMI w/bolt ons (under construction)
'69 Chrysler 300 Convertible 375 HP 440
'71 Plymouth Duster 360 W/EFI (Wife's Ride)
'12 Ram MegaCab Dually 6.7 Cummins
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: 67HEMI]
#518061
11/08/09 04:45 PM
11/08/09 04:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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my A/W intercooler was 1800$+ pump 3 gall cell and hosses,fittings came to 2200$
Last edited by METAL STORM; 11/08/09 04:48 PM.
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: blownzoom440]
#518062
11/08/09 07:23 PM
11/08/09 07:23 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 902
Mopar Lane,Mississippi
67HEMI
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 902
Mopar Lane,Mississippi
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How tall is that? Indy sells their complete polished 8-71 with teflon I think, less carbs and pop off valve for 4650.00
'33 Plymouth 5 Window Coupe Blown Aluminum HEMI w/bolt ons (under construction)
'69 Chrysler 300 Convertible 375 HP 440
'71 Plymouth Duster 360 W/EFI (Wife's Ride)
'12 Ram MegaCab Dually 6.7 Cummins
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: 67HEMI]
#518063
11/08/09 07:47 PM
11/08/09 07:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
How tall is that? Indy sells their complete polished 8-71 with teflon I think, less carbs and pop off valve for 4650.00
the intercooler is 4" and with the blower to the carb base is 11".i got my blower thru a dealer and got a better price,1800 stripped blower polished.[nickerson performance in PA]
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: BEEQUIK]
#518065
11/08/09 08:44 PM
11/08/09 08:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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looking good but dont you want bigger carbs?
Last edited by METAL STORM; 11/08/09 08:51 PM.
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: BEEQUIK]
#518066
11/08/09 08:48 PM
11/08/09 08:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
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Procharger gets my vote. I have a 3800 stall converter with 3.92 gears and leave the line at 9 psi of boost. There isn't much lag with that setup. I shift at 6200 rpm and at shift recovery, I'm still at 12 psi.
Jerry Williams.
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: dizuster]
#518067
11/08/09 08:55 PM
11/08/09 08:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951
Temperance, MI
prochargedhemi
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951
Temperance, MI
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Quote:
Instant throttle response, and low-mid range torque though.
Procharger is down on boost at low-mid range, but a loose converter can usually overcome most of it.
Roots-
Low end torque like you've never felt in your life.
Procharger-
Limited low-mid range boost (which can be a good thing in a small tire car)
so you think that a roots style blower comes off idle with maximum boost? Its the same concept a procharger uses, the faster it spins the more air that it passes which in turn creates more boost. I take it you have never riden in a procharged car? I will let you all argue amongst with "all your roots/procharger knowledge"  but at the end of the day boost=force fed (there all the same) different strokes for different folks.
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: prochargedhemi]
#518068
11/08/09 09:05 PM
11/08/09 09:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
Quote:
Instant throttle response, and low-mid range torque though.
Procharger is down on boost at low-mid range, but a loose converter can usually overcome most of it.
Roots-
Low end torque like you've never felt in your life.
Procharger-
Limited low-mid range boost (which can be a good thing in a small tire car)
so you think that a roots style blower comes off idle with maximum boost? Its the same concept a procharger uses, the faster it spins the more air that it passes which in turn creates more boost. I take it you have never riden in a procharged car? I will let you all argue amongst with "all your roots/procharger knowledge" but at the end of the day boost=force fed (there all the same) different strokes for different folks.
ok maybe you could answer a q.i am at 10% UD with 12 lbs and can got to 30% maybe making 20lbs how does that cpmpare to the procharger %'s? if you can see what i am getting at.
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: blownzoom440]
#518071
11/08/09 09:41 PM
11/08/09 09:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951
Temperance, MI
prochargedhemi
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951
Temperance, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
i can tell that on my setup a 70 tooth lower and 58 tooth upper "should" make right around 15lbs (it will vary obviously) what ud % is i have no idea how all that works out
well with the internal gearing of the charger what is the max rpm?[OD for the charger for your rpm]
the ratio is 5.4:1 and is rated to spin 65,000 rpm (impeller speed) F-2 procharger
Quote:
Not from my experience with a Roots. When I owned my Duster, I could be cruising down the road at 2,500 rpm, stomp the pedal and get max boost, instantly. Same thing from a dead stop and nailing it. A Roots doesn't need rpm to make boost, it needs those throttle blades opened up.
a procharger works the same way, when the throttle blades open the bypass valve closes
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: blownzoom440]
#518074
11/09/09 05:54 PM
11/09/09 05:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,495
Richmond , Virginia
BEEQUIK
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,495
Richmond , Virginia
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Quote:
looking good but dont you want bigger carbs?
Well I was thinking that too but I figured since this is a street car,small cammed 906 headed motor that the 850 may be overkill.I am not putting a cage in this car and will not be racing it a lot (Happy DAd?)so Big Al said the 750's would be the best bet. I hope I wont end up sorry about that choice.
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: BEEQUIK]
#518076
11/09/09 06:10 PM
11/09/09 06:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
Quote:
looking good but dont you want bigger carbs?
Well I was thinking that too but I figured since this is a street car,small cammed 906 headed motor that the 850 may be overkill.I am not putting a cage in this car and will not be racing it a lot (Happy DAd?)so Big Al said the 750's would be the best bet. I hope I wont end up sorry about that choice.
nothing wrong with all that.  i have 346 ported heads and did well with .559 lift solid cam
850 carbs and 3%OD got me 8lbs and 10.46/129 ET with no intercooler.i have always ran 110 sunoco to help it be more forgiving.i am sure it could have ran on mid 90's octane with the 34* timing.i ran out of carb at that point though.
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: blownzoom440]
#518077
11/09/09 06:13 PM
11/09/09 06:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,495
Richmond , Virginia
BEEQUIK
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,495
Richmond , Virginia
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
looking good but dont you want bigger carbs?
Well I was thinking that too but I figured since this is a street car,small cammed 906 headed motor that the 850 may be overkill.I am not putting a cage in this car and will not be racing it a lot (Happy DAd?)so Big Al said the 750's would be the best bet. I hope I wont end up sorry about that choice.
nothing wrong with all that. i have 346 ported heads and did well with .559 lift solid cam
850 carbs and 3%OD got me 8lbs and 10.46/129 ET with no intercooler.i have always ran 110 sunoco to help it be more forgiving.i am sure it could have ran on mid 90's octane with the 34* timing.i ran out of carb at that point though.
Well I have a Scott Brown solid blower grind at .550 lift,dad ported the 906's so I guess I will just have to wait and see. What a learning curve this will be,never had anything quite like this to deal with,but always wanted a blower motor.
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Re: BENCH RACING: 8-71 V.S. Procharger?
[Re: BEEQUIK]
#518078
11/09/09 06:17 PM
11/09/09 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
bigtimeauto
Trophy Winner
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Trophy Winner
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
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I only run 18* or 24* max if i want to get after it. whats up with that 34*?
BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154
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