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Idle drops when clutch is depressed? #453709
08/29/09 08:23 PM
08/29/09 08:23 PM
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Kentucky
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ewolfe Offline OP
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I'm hoping you guys can help me out. I've checked the clutch numerous times and I can't see anything wrong with the setup. I'm using the factory linkage setup. I have a 340 6 pack with 10.5 clutch set with the 3 fingers for the pressure plate. I can get the car to idle at 900rpms in neutral, but whenever I push the clutch in, the idle starts to drop by about 300 or so rpms, which causes the car to stall. What am I missing? The clutch starts to engage around half way off the floor, maybe a touch higher, but not close to the top...any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: ewolfe] #453710
08/29/09 08:26 PM
08/29/09 08:26 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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have you checked for excessive fore-aft movement of the crank? I am wondering if maybe so much crank bearing friction is loading the engine. Not likely, but thats a wierd problem.

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #453711
08/29/09 08:34 PM
08/29/09 08:34 PM
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ewolfe Offline OP
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I did just notice there seems to be a small oil leak coming from the rear main area. I can see a small spot coming from the bellhousing that smells like oil, but I can't see for sure with my Quick Time housing. I put Passon's fluid in the tranny, which looks like auto trans fluid, so I'm fairly certain the spot is oil and not the red fluid I put in the tranny. The motor is a fresh rebuild, but I guess that could be an issue. Can I check this in the car with the balancer on? I remember the builder telling me the crank endplay checked good, but who knows unless you check it yourself?

Thanks

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: ewolfe] #453712
08/29/09 08:50 PM
08/29/09 08:50 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
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Could the tune of the carbs/timing be so off (at idle) that just a little added friction drop the idle noticeably????

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #453713
08/29/09 09:09 PM
08/29/09 09:09 PM
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ewolfe Offline OP
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The tune could be at fault as well. I've been wrestling with my first sixpack setup for a few weeks now. I have a miss that I can not track down. I've phazed the reluctor on my new MP distributor, a brand new MSD 6al-2, Blaster SS coil and MSD 8.5 Super Conductor wires...I'm beating my head agains the wall here. The tune is off...I have the distributor locked out at 34degrees. Would you believe I can't find anyone in KY that can help me tune this car? The dyno shops all tell me they only work on injected cars, no carbs.

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #453714
08/29/09 09:28 PM
08/29/09 09:28 PM
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Quote:

Could the tune of the carbs/timing be so off (at idle) that just a little added friction drop the idle noticeably????


This is pushing the clutch pedal in, thus releasing the the clutch from any friction from driving the transmission. There should actually be less friction with the pedal depressed by relieving any load on the engine

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: MoparforLife] #453715
08/29/09 09:40 PM
08/29/09 09:40 PM
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ewolfe Offline OP
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Good point...

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: MoparforLife] #453716
08/29/09 09:50 PM
08/29/09 09:50 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Could the tune of the carbs/timing be so off (at idle) that just a little added friction drop the idle noticeably????


This is pushing the clutch pedal in, thus releasing the the clutch from any friction from driving the transmission. There should actually be less friction with the pedal depressed by relieving any load on the engine




Except that with the clutch pushed in, it loads the number 3 crank bearing face against the block.
Thats what changes, friction wise, with the clutch pedal pushed in. Yes the tranny is relieved of rotational mass and its friction, but since the problem occurs 'when the clutch is pushed in' thats not an issue.

...and of course the throwout bearing is engaged.....(??????) I just don't see enough frictional load to make that difference unless the engine is in a very poor state of tune at idle. But what else affects the engine, at idle, when clutch is depressed?

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #453717
08/29/09 11:00 PM
08/29/09 11:00 PM

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Myself, I'd be VERY worried about thrust bearing/ crank/ oiling problems.

Does it seem to idle nice, smooth, steady? What happens when you adjust the idle screws?

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? #453718
08/29/09 11:07 PM
08/29/09 11:07 PM
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When did this start? Has the car been doing fine and just start acting up? Have you done some transmission/clutch work and at the point of checking your work? What have you done to it recently?


BigBlock 74 Swinger
Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? #453719
08/30/09 10:23 AM
08/30/09 10:23 AM
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Kentucky
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ewolfe Offline OP
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I don't know if I'd say idle smooth and steady with the 305/524 hyd cam in it, but it idles at a steady 900 rpms in neutral with 5-6" of vacuum. If I adjust the front or rear carb's idle screws, the idle responds...I have to make major changes to the center carb screws in order to get a response. I'm wondering if I need to drill a couple of small holes in the butterflys to get a little more air into the center carb so the screws will work better??? My thinking is that the engine gets the air it needs from the outboards at idle, causing the center carb's idle screws to have little effect?? This is my first ever sixpack setup, but I'm no stranger to Holley carbs...that said...I feel as if I'm a little overwhelmed with dialing in this setup.

The motor is comprised of a 72 340, .030 with JE pistons, Eagle rods, 308 heads, factory Eddy alm. intake and factory 440 sixpack carbs that I rebuilt and am using the Quick Fuel billet metering block with 64s and a 2.5 pv, due to the 5" of vacuum at idle. The outboards have the billet metering plate conversions, also by QF and I have the ProMax rear billet base plate on the rear carb. I'm loosing quite a bit of what precious little hair I have left worring over this setup. I refuse to give up though. I recently discovered that my MSD 6al-2 is WAY off on the rev limiter...700rpms off! I'm wondering if this can have any contribution to the slight misfire with the engine at cruise.

Everything is new on the build, except the tranny was not rebuilt. All the ignition stuff and everything is brand new and the grounds are good.

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: bb74swngr] #453720
08/30/09 10:28 AM
08/30/09 10:28 AM
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ewolfe Offline OP
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It's been doing this since I installed the combo. It's driving me nuts. I've always built big blocks and I wanted to try my hands at a healthy small block, but I'm second guessing that now...anyway, too late to turn back.

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: ewolfe] #453721
08/30/09 01:12 PM
08/30/09 01:12 PM
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Change your oil and cut the filter apart and see what is in there for filings. If the thrust bearing is the cause you will undoubtedly have alot of aluminum filings in there.

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: MoparforLife] #453722
09/13/09 08:44 PM
09/13/09 08:44 PM
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ewolfe Offline OP
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I may have figured out the issue with the idle dropping when I push in the clutch pedal...I was putting in a set of TTI headers when I noticed the TO bearing was only connected to one side of the fork...what causes that? I assume it has to do with linkage geometry, but it all looks to be the right parts...any ideas?

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: ewolfe] #453723
09/13/09 09:38 PM
09/13/09 09:38 PM
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alberta
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so the throwout bearing wasnt clipped into the clutch fork completely??

is it fixed now??

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: Publicbottle] #453724
09/13/09 09:44 PM
09/13/09 09:44 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
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Or the ctutch fork isn't centered for some reason.

Re: Idle drops when clutch is depressed? [Re: stumpy] #453725
09/14/09 07:06 AM
09/14/09 07:06 AM
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ewolfe Offline OP
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I did notice that one of the springs on the TO bearing looks a little tweaked, but that shouldn't cause it to pop off...I did have to lengthen my clutch adjuster rod for this setup as I had trouble finding a new one for a 71 RR small block...maybe I need to shape it in a way as to keep from binding the fork or something?? I'll look into it.
The car is down for a little bit while I'm having Promax tweak my 6pk setup.







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