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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#384916
07/24/09 11:00 AM
07/24/09 11:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,609
Southern Cal
Noblewk
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,609
Southern Cal
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I would leave the Gears alone and just change the Converter. You say its 100% Street, and the 3.91's will have you buzzing down the freeway ~3300 rpms.
66 Dart GT, 402 11.18:109 Best
63 1/2 Galaxie 500XL 406 4Speed 13.20:103 Best
2000 Ram
2005 Durango Hemi.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#384920
07/24/09 11:42 AM
07/24/09 11:42 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
buildanother
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
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I would get the converter upgraded.  (changed)
Last edited by buildanother; 07/24/09 11:42 AM.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: buildanother]
#384922
07/24/09 11:51 AM
07/24/09 11:51 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,414
Stow ,Ohio
demon440
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,414
Stow ,Ohio
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I think you should finish one car before you tear apart another. Don't you have 2 or 3 projects going on right now? Or you could sell me your Demon.  
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#384923
07/24/09 11:58 AM
07/24/09 11:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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What is your compression ratio? If your tune is good, the right converter and cam will do wonders with 3.54's.
What do you have the timing set at, initial and total? What do your plugs look like? You can easily change the cam and lifters with the motor in the car without removing the intake. You can always contact Dave over at Hughes Engines and talk to him about your set-up and see what he recommends.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: 540challenger]
#384930
07/24/09 02:21 PM
07/24/09 02:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
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Quote:
You could also get a shorter tire 26" a 275/50/15 They are a little wider i think about a 1 inch off the top of my head.
 it would be a real easy way to see how your car likes a higher gear and free if you could borrow a set.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: challenger70]
#384932
07/24/09 02:31 PM
07/24/09 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
You could also get a shorter tire 26" a 275/50/15 They are a little wider i think about a 1 inch off the top of my head.
it would be a real easy way to see how your car likes a higher gear and free if you could borrow a set.
a 26" tire on a B-body would look silllllllly.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#384937
07/24/09 05:27 PM
07/24/09 05:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Your approach is similar to repairing a hole in a dam by adding berms to direct the flooding better... The issue is the cam is wrong. The 484 sounds small, but it has big duration numbers for its size and the rest of the engine can't support it. Therefore it can't support the car. You are looking at hundreds for a gear and convertor swap, or either by itself... Why not spend a few hundred on the right cam? If it's too much for you to handle, find a reputable shop to do it for you. You'll be much happier. It's a dog down low. It's still a dog when you rev because of the manifolds and the lack of compression. So instead of making it a dog you're going to try to minimize the dogginess? So what's the real reason your fear changing the cam? Is it an engine warranty issue or something? The package is perfect for what you do except for the cam. $300 in parts, maybe $400 in labor to pay a shop, and it's fixed permanently. $700 is a little more than buying a used chuck and installing it yourself, and a lot less than buying a convertor with that rear and installing both or having them installed.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: Dougsmopars]
#384938
07/24/09 05:55 PM
07/24/09 05:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
That cam isn't that radical. I agree with previous that you should check cam timing. A good 2800-3000 stall should be plenty in a 440. Is your intake a dual plane? If not lose it and get a dual plane. Remember basically stock 440's don't make power over 5000-5500. There torque monsters down low. A bone stock 440 with 3;23's should roast the tires off.
The cam is ALL wrong. He'd be better off w/ a stock 440 cam than that 484. It is a bracket racing cam. It needs 10:1+ 3000+ stall 3.91's or better, intake, headers and the rest to work. Trust me a stockish 440 w/ 3.55's and that cam will net you a slow, non tire spinning B-body.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: demon440]
#384941
07/24/09 10:11 PM
07/24/09 10:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,929
Tri-Cities, Washington
VITC_GTX
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,929
Tri-Cities, Washington
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Quote:
I think you should finish one car before you
tear apart another.
Don't you have 2 or 3 projects going on right now?
Or you could sell me your Demon.
Oh, that hurt 
Yeah, I have two in bare metal and one in primer... 
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: jbc426]
#384942
07/24/09 10:15 PM
07/24/09 10:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,929
Tri-Cities, Washington
VITC_GTX
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,929
Tri-Cities, Washington
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Quote:
What is your compression ratio? If your tune is good, the right converter and cam will do wonders with 3.54's.
What do you have the timing set at, initial and total? What do your plugs look like? You can easily change the cam and lifters with the motor in the car without removing the intake. You can always contact Dave over at Hughes Engines and talk to him about your set-up and see what he recommends.
Compression is stock (advertised 10.0:1) with the heads shaved .030". Not sure what actual would be...
I think timing is ~18 initial 35 total (or close to it) on FBO advise.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#384943
07/24/09 10:20 PM
07/24/09 10:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,929
Tri-Cities, Washington
VITC_GTX
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,929
Tri-Cities, Washington
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Quote:
284/484 MP cam <--- that be your problem... and if you have a carterbrock carb. 3.91's and more conver will help. or you can swap the cam out for something a more street friendly. I'd do the cam...much easier and cheaper.
I guess everyone's different but I would rather change a converter and rear end than a cam.
I hate cracking the motor open (nicely painted, etc) and I love the lope of the cam. The sound is the best part of the car.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#384947
07/24/09 11:26 PM
07/24/09 11:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You could also get a shorter tire 26" a 275/50/15 They are a little wider i think about a 1 inch off the top of my head.
it would be a real easy way to see how your car likes a higher gear and free if you could borrow a set.
a 26" tire on a B-body would look silllllllly.
But it would be a good way to see how it would run with lower gears.
I had l-60-14's on my 69 Charger, it didn't look bad 
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#384948
07/25/09 12:08 AM
07/25/09 12:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,881
Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,881
Pittsburgh,PA
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We rebuilt a '69 GTX 440 to stock specs,except used a 484 Mopar cam.Stock Carter AVS carb,iron intake and exhaust manifolds,906 heads unported-stock valves,only a .030 overbore.2-1/2 exhaust through Dynomax turbo mufflers.Auto 727 with a custom converter,mild stall.Initially it ran the stock 3.23 gear,then 4.10 gear.The GTX ran a 13.9 with the 4.10 gear,in drive shifts at 6200 RPM,never ran it with the 3.23.Tires are BFG 295/50/15's on 10" Weld wheels.The car has A/C and a choppy idle,but ok with the air on.It runs good with the 4.10's,but I always wanted to try it with a 3.55,the 3.23 gave it awesome top end and highway passing power though.I have tuned many stock or near stock 440's and think a 3.55 gear is perfect for an all around driver.The cam as installed may be your low end problem,you could try to advance the cam timing by 4*.BTW the 484 cam in the GTX will shred the tires!(I may have the gears backwards for the dragstip time,it may have been with the 3.23's)I'll check,it is a friends car,and the times were in the early '90's.
RT
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: RTSrunner]
#384949
07/25/09 01:00 AM
07/25/09 01:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
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It's the cam, or you need more compression.. which do you want to fix? The 440 can handle the .484 but needs real 10:1 not Morpar magic wanna be factory maybe 9:1 that you have... I'd swap the cam 
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: forphorty]
#384951
07/25/09 02:25 AM
07/25/09 02:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 577
Grand Rapids, MI
11secondC
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 577
Grand Rapids, MI
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1967 VIP 4400 lbs w/driver = 14.17@97, 2.08 60', worn out stock bottem end '62 413, 484 cam, 452's, 750 Carter + RPM, 1.75" headers, 2400 stall, 3.55's, 26" BFG's and it would boil those anywhere in first gear... 
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: RTSrunner]
#384953
07/25/09 08:58 AM
07/25/09 08:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
We rebuilt a '69 GTX 440 to stock specs,except used a 484 Mopar cam.Stock Carter AVS carb,iron intake and exhaust manifolds,906 heads unported-stock valves,only a .030 overbore.2-1/2 exhaust through Dynomax turbo mufflers.Auto 727 with a custom converter,mild stall.Initially it ran the stock 3.23 gear,then 4.10 gear.The GTX ran a 13.9 with the 4.10 gear,in drive shifts at 6200 RPM,never ran it with the 3.23.Tires are BFG 295/50/15's on 10" Weld wheels.The car has A/C and a choppy idle,but ok with the air on.It runs good with the 4.10's,but I always wanted to try it with a 3.55,the 3.23 gave it awesome top end and highway passing power though.I have tuned many stock or near stock 440's and think a 3.55 gear is perfect for an all around driver.The cam as installed may be your low end problem,you could try to advance the cam timing by 4*.BTW the 484 cam in the GTX will shred the tires!(I may have the gears backwards for the dragstip time,it may have been with the 3.23's)I'll check,it is a friends car,and the times were in the early '90's.
RT
I ran the sumit 488 cam in a 67 coronet w/ a basic cast piston (maybe 9:1) 440. stock 906 heads, headers, RPM intake 750DP, 175K convert (2800) car ran consistant 12.90 @ 104. It had the 484 in it when I got it and 3.55's. what a dog. it could barley run 14.0's IMO for a 440 powered B-body that's too slow.
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear?
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#384956
07/26/09 09:44 AM
07/26/09 09:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
I'm going to keep the manifolds for the stock look. I may just call Kenny at PTC and give him my combo and see what he thinks about a converter swap.
I do have a Holley 750 DP on it.
Dude do yourself a huge favor from somebody who's been down your road. Change the cam and be done. It will run better, sound better and be much more driveable, not to mention FASTER.
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