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Are 3.91's enough gear? #384915
07/24/09 10:48 AM
07/24/09 10:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,929
Tri-Cities, Washington
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VITC_GTX Offline OP
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VITC_GTX  Offline OP
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Tri-Cities, Washington
My GTX performs so-so at best (for a mild 440). It has poor performance off the line and until the RPM get up there. Carb, cam, converter and gears seem to be the problem (see below). This car is 100% street and I don't care about gas mileage.

If I go to 3.91's and maybe a ~3000 converter would that wake up my combo or do I need to get more drastic?

Here are the specs:
'70 GTX
Mild 440
Stock compression forged pistons
Polished and balanced rotating assembly
Mildly ported 906 heads
284/484 MP cam
Eddy RPM Performer intake
Stock manifolds, 2.5" exhaust
FBO electronic ignition
727 w/340 convertor (guessing 2300-ish?)
3.55 Suregrip
275/60-15 rear tires (28" tall)

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: VITC_GTX] #384916
07/24/09 11:00 AM
07/24/09 11:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,609
Southern Cal
Noblewk Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,609
Southern Cal
I would leave the Gears alone and just change the Converter. You say its 100% Street, and the 3.91's will have you buzzing down the freeway ~3300 rpms.


66 Dart GT, 402 11.18:109 Best 63 1/2 Galaxie 500XL 406 4Speed 13.20:103 Best 2000 Ram 2005 Durango Hemi.
Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: VITC_GTX] #384917
07/24/09 11:02 AM
07/24/09 11:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70 Offline
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challenger70  Offline
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Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
are you sure you don't have any problems? Even that combo should boil the hides pretty good. I have 3.91's xterme energy cam (.492 lift I think)and a 3,400 stall and it decimates my drag radials and blows ls-2 vettes away. I would think your combo would be better than you describe.

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: challenger70] #384918
07/24/09 11:21 AM
07/24/09 11:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Dodgem  Offline
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Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
First problem is the TQ as that cam needs a 3000 to 3500. 3.55 to 3.91 gear change will give a little but not much.
I'll bet your cam could use degreeing and a little advance from suggested intake centerline install.
If it is the 108 lobe separation and a 106 intake install it would really respond to 103 or 102 intake install.
often when a 484 108 lobe center is lazy the cam is in at a slightly retarded position.

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: VITC_GTX] #384919
07/24/09 11:35 AM
07/24/09 11:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,929
Tri-Cities, Washington
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VITC_GTX Offline OP
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VITC_GTX  Offline OP
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Tri-Cities, Washington
My main reason for thinking of this was because of this thread I started on my carb. Most folks said to change the cam (not what I want to do) or add gears and a converter.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post5253122

Last edited by VITC_GTX; 07/24/09 11:36 AM.
Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: VITC_GTX] #384920
07/24/09 11:42 AM
07/24/09 11:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
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buildanother Offline
I Live Here
buildanother  Offline
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Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
I would get the converter upgraded. (changed)

Last edited by buildanother; 07/24/09 11:42 AM.
Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: VITC_GTX] #384921
07/24/09 11:48 AM
07/24/09 11:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70 Offline
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challenger70  Offline
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Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
If your sure your combo is healthy a stall should help alot. My car is 100% street and with a good converter running a 3,000+ stall should not be a problem. I was a little concerned myself about a higher stall on the street but it drives like a creampuff until you stand on it. The 3.91's with a 28 inch tire isn't terrible on the highway if you stick to 60-65, it does get buzzing pretty good over that though. My combo is just a little bigger cam, stall and gear more than yours but it sounds like worlds apart as far as performance, your sure theres nothing else wrong?

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: buildanother] #384922
07/24/09 11:51 AM
07/24/09 11:51 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,414
Stow ,Ohio
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demon440 Offline
pro stock
demon440  Offline
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Posts: 1,414
Stow ,Ohio
I think you should finish one car before you
tear apart another.
Don't you have 2 or 3 projects going on right now?
Or you could sell me your Demon.

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: VITC_GTX] #384923
07/24/09 11:58 AM
07/24/09 11:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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West Coast, USA
What is your compression ratio? If your tune is good, the right converter and cam will do wonders with 3.54's.

What do you have the timing set at, initial and total? What do your plugs look like? You can easily change the cam and lifters with the motor in the car without removing the intake. You can always contact Dave over at Hughes Engines and talk to him about your set-up and see what he recommends.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: challenger70] #384924
07/24/09 12:05 PM
07/24/09 12:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody Offline
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Michigan
Nobody thinks the stock exhaust manifolds might be an issue? I had a 440 in my 69 charger with 10:1 flat tops, stock heads, Crane .484 cam, Torker 2 manifold, 850 dbl pump, Cyclone headers , 2 1/4" exhaust, accel dual point mech dist and 3:23 gears...that thing would roast the tires if you wanted to and would eat 5.0 mustangs and 350 vettes for breakfast back in the day....

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: MNobody] #384925
07/24/09 01:01 PM
07/24/09 01:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171 Offline
pro stock
mark7171  Offline
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Posts: 1,261
ILL
Make torque power. Go 3.55 gear at most with a 4 speed. Let the 3.75" crank pull you, but compensate with a timing curve. Keep a performer dual plane at all cost. Try a 800 AVS thunder, or 650DP both manually actate the secondaries. Also taylor top end with a spacer.

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: mark7171] #384926
07/24/09 01:25 PM
07/24/09 01:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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ademon Offline
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ademon  Offline
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Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
probably low on CR maybe in the 8.5 zone, that doesn't help with that cam, the exhaust manifolds are not the problem many F.A.S.T. cars running low 11's with them. maybe advance the cam, make sure the FBO stuff is working.

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: ademon] #384927
07/24/09 01:37 PM
07/24/09 01:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171 Offline
pro stock
mark7171  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
why that cam with a stack compression ?

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: ademon] #384928
07/24/09 01:39 PM
07/24/09 01:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Manitoba, Canada
Torq converter cam make a world of difference. Not sure who's good now, but I know dynamic used to make a good street/strip converter that'd flash stall to 4-5k yet drive basically normally during regular driving. Something like that would be a night and day difference for your car. If you go to a high stall like that, you can leave your rear gears as-is. If you do the stall, the gears won't make much of a difference.

Quote:

the exhaust manifolds are not the problem many F.A.S.T. cars running low 11's with them.




True, but the fast guys are also going to be running ported manifolds, higher compression and often stroker cranks. But for his application HP manifolds should do the job decently.

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: VITC_GTX] #384929
07/24/09 01:52 PM
07/24/09 01:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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540challenger Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
You could also get a shorter tire 26" a 275/50/15 They are a little wider i think about a 1 inch off the top of my head.

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: 540challenger] #384930
07/24/09 02:21 PM
07/24/09 02:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
challenger70 Offline
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challenger70  Offline
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Posts: 3,358
Berwyn, IL
Quote:

You could also get a shorter tire 26" a 275/50/15 They are a little wider i think about a 1 inch off the top of my head.




it would be a real easy way to see how your car likes a higher gear and free if you could borrow a set.

Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: VITC_GTX] #384931
07/24/09 02:30 PM
07/24/09 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
284/484 MP cam <--- that be your problem... and if you have a carterbrock carb. 3.91's and more conver will help. or you can swap the cam out for something a more street friendly. I'd do the cam...much easier and cheaper.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: challenger70] #384932
07/24/09 02:31 PM
07/24/09 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

You could also get a shorter tire 26" a 275/50/15 They are a little wider i think about a 1 inch off the top of my head.




it would be a real easy way to see how your car likes a higher gear and free if you could borrow a set.




a 26" tire on a B-body would look silllllllly.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: MNobody] #384933
07/24/09 03:43 PM
07/24/09 03:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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GTX MATT  Offline
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Quote:

Nobody thinks the stock exhaust manifolds might be an issue?






Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Are 3.91's enough gear? [Re: GTX MATT] #384934
07/24/09 04:04 PM
07/24/09 04:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
The mani's are NOT the issue. While tha manis are not the best for performance, that cam is what is making the car poo poo. Trust me. Swap the cam out, even with a summit 488 cam and you will be much much happier. You won't need 3.91's (although they'd help) and you won't need to change your convert. That 484 cam sucks compression and won't start workingh until 3200rpm. Which means it's DOG off the line. Plenty of cams will work w/ your set-up get one that will work and you won't need to drop the trans or pumpkin.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
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