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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37514
09/28/07 03:30 PM
09/28/07 03:30 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
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mopar addict
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Quote:
So I decided to do this paint on a budget thing. First off, I took off as much paint as I possible can. Unfortunately, there was a chunk of old paint that was impossible to take off. I worked on it for hours and it would not budge. I went ahead and painted over it anyways, now I ran into a problem. I think the pictures will tell it all. Does anyone know a cure for this problem? Please help 
I am not sure from the pictures what the problem is : It is either :
a) that you can see the original paint below. If so... that is no problem because we all have been able to see the colors below until we build up enough coats to give full color coverage. OR
b) that the original paint is slightly thicker and and it projects further from the surface than the new paint. If so.... that is no problem because as you build up your layers of coats it should all blend together and not be detectable.
Is there something else about the pictures that I am not picking up on ?
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Marq]
#37515
09/28/07 05:19 PM
09/28/07 05:19 PM
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37517
09/28/07 10:47 PM
09/28/07 10:47 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
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mopar addict
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Quote:
Here is the car that I am going to be working on. Just picked this up. It will be painted black with brightside. I was unable to find any sand paper less then 200 and over 1500, will this be a problem? Also, how well should I clean up those rust spots, and with what? Thanks
Wish me luck.
You should be able to do the job with sand papers ranging from 200 to 1500.
To do the rust spots ... it depends on the extent of the rust spot...
If the rust spot is simply 'surface rust' that has not pitted too deeply into the metal, I would hit the spot with a 200 grit paper until I could get it down to mostly shiny metal. At this point you could put on a smooth application of bondo to just level the area up and sand it with a finer grit paper to smooth it out, level it to the rest of the surface and to feather the edgesit with the surrounding unsanded areas, so that the repair blends in and doesn't appear obvious when you add paint. You could at this point hit it with a spray primer or go straight to painting over it. Another possibility would be to add a coat of your chosen paint over the fixed area to act as the primer. The idea being that bondo'd or primered areas tend to suck in paint at first. So by priming it with primer or one application of paint, you will seal the worked area so that it doesn't suck in paint when you go to paint the entire panel.
IF the rust has turned into shale or rock... or has gone all the way through the metal.. you should knock out all the material that has gone from metal to that rock like substance. Depending on the size of the hole needing repair or filling there are a number of potential ways to fill in the hole and bring it all level with the rest of the panel surface. There are so many possible ways to go about this that I really cannot do justice to explaining it here. You might just have to do a little bit of Googling to research that topic.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Marq]
#37518
09/30/07 09:50 AM
09/30/07 09:50 AM
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ok, i have just about completed the painting on the doors of my jeep, now i need to start on the hard top.
the previous owner decided to use the roll on bedliner on the top and IT AINT COMING OFF, i can live with the textured paint, but need to shine it up some (its faded black now) so my question is,
knowing your not gonna be able to sand down to smooth surface, would you mix the paint any different?
I used foam brushes on the doors inplace of a roller because of all the nooks and crannies, do you think i could continue with the foam brush or should i switch to a roller for the top?
thanks sorry for the length.
catfish
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37519
09/30/07 04:00 PM
09/30/07 04:00 PM
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Hello rollers. I found the original thread via a link from somewhere I no longer recall, and have been reading it off and on over the past year. I'm not a Mopar guy, but that doesn't seem to be a requirement for this thread.  Well, recently a roller opportunity presented itself in the form of my '87 BMW 325i race car. Spraying was too messy, and not much cheaper than Maaco. Being that I'm a racer, saving a buck anywhere is paramount. So, I have elected to give this a try.  My home PC is currently down, so I can't post pictures just yet. The patient had peeling clearcoat on all the top surfaces which I spent a lot of time removing. The stuff on the hood literally blew off with a little work from the DA. After much sanding, trying to fix the bigger dents (good training opportunity, this) today I was finally ready to 'roll'. A special thank you to Marq for finding Brightside. I elected to go this route because, frankly, the Rustoleum is too labor intensive for a mediocre gloss IMO. Having just put coat #1 on the car, I am amazed with the Brightside. If you can tolerate it's minimal color choice, this paint is the way to go. One thing I did find was that it is best to make small 'batches' of thinned paint. I got about half the car done and found the paint began drying quite a bit faster, making it more trouble to get the bubbles out. I am very pleased with the finish thus far but have one question: I don't have horrible orange peel or bubble issues, but there are several areas where the paint isn't 'level' because of overlap and so forth. I'm thinking a good wet sand even at this stage may be wise. Anyone have thoughts? Wasted effort or a good idea? Rolling is actually fun!  I'll post some photos as soon as possible.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37520
09/30/07 11:37 PM
09/30/07 11:37 PM
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37521
09/30/07 11:47 PM
09/30/07 11:47 PM
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So I just went to the store to get some bondo to clean up my rust spots, and noticed that there were a few different kinds of the stuff. What kind am I suppose to use?
Also, I saw something there called "rust converter" has anyone used this, and if so, do you think that it will work well for this project? It's a lot cheaper then the bondo, and seems like it would be a lot easier to use also.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37522
10/01/07 07:50 AM
10/01/07 07:50 AM
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Without knowing the brand of what you are looking at, I'm going to take a stab at answering you. Rust Converter is usually more of a paint type product that you use to coat the rust and stop it from coming back through. This does not remove the need for 'bondo' to make it smooth.
As for body filler, I would strongly advise against using 'bondo' brand filler. It is a cheap product, tends to shrink, does not sand well, etc. Spend the few extra bucks and buy 'real' body shop filler such as Evercoat Rage. I've been using it on my project and it is so much easier to use than the generic junk sold at most K-Marts and parts stores.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37523
10/01/07 10:05 AM
10/01/07 10:05 AM
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hmm reading the descriptions, I don't really think that that is what it does.
Q: What is Rust Converter?
A: Rust Converter is a synthetic polymeric formula that converts existing rust into a moisture free, black protective coating. Not only does it eliminate existing rust, but it seals out moisture to prevent the possibility of future rust formation and corrosion. Surfaces protected with this primer and an oil based paint resist the effects of weather, sunlight, rain and even salt spray without peeling or cracking as long as the oil based paint is maintained per manufacturer's recommendations. Rust Converter provides an excellent base primer for oil base and epoxy paints. This easy-to-use product is the first step in providing long-term protection of steel and iron surfaces.
Q: How is rust converter different than a rust remover?
A: Rather than removing rust, a rust converter mixes chemically with rust to create a black inert substance that can be painted over, concealing the existence of any rust and preventing further corrosion.
Q: Do I need to apply a primer over Rust Converter before I paint?
A: No. Rust Converter is an excellent primer for use under all oil-based paints.
Last edited by harminoff; 10/01/07 10:08 AM.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37526
10/01/07 07:51 PM
10/01/07 07:51 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
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Quote:
One thing I did find was that it is best to make small 'batches' of thinned paint. I got about half the car done and found the paint began drying quite a bit faster, making it more trouble to get the bubbles out.
I am very pleased with the finish thus far but have one question: I don't have horrible orange peel or bubble issues, but there are several areas where the paint isn't 'level' because of overlap and so forth. I'm thinking a good wet sand even at this stage may be wise. Anyone have thoughts? Wasted effort or a good idea?
Rolling is actually fun! I'll post some photos as soon as possible.
I agree about making small batches at a time. I was using the cheapo 4" wide paint tray... and mixing right in the tray prior to use. That little tray could normally get me most of the way around the car. And yes... by about the last panel I would add a taste of mineral spirit to the paint tray to thin out the remaining paint, reclaim some of the paint that had been squeezed out on the ribbed portion of the tray.
If you are finding that the overall surface is not smooth... feel free to throw a wet sand stage in at that point. The key concept to keep in mind is that the smoother the surface as you go along, the shiner and glossier the end coat will be.
Thanks for the kind words about the Brightside.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Marq]
#37527
10/02/07 07:27 AM
10/02/07 07:27 AM
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Marq, you are truly Da Man. If I ever see my PC again (bad power supply, followed by a bad motherboard, and now dead again...)I will be pleased to post photos. Using my work laptop for now. I wet sanded it yesterday. Between dust nibs and some questionable brushwork I felt it was best to get it smooth again. I used 1200 grit. One of the things that concerns me is when I use the foam brush and 'tip' the bubbles I am getting ripples, sort of like brush strokes you'd see with a regular brush. I'm guessing this is because the paint is hardening before flowing out completely. Would you say I'd just need more solvent in my batch or does my technique need work? I'm using as light a pressure as possible on the brush to remove the bubbles. I'm not dipping the foam brush into anything or cleaning it, just using it as I go. On the 'end' of my batch I could feel the brush starting to drag, and I know what causes that. I'm starting with the sides of the car. I will do the top, flat surfaces second in the second color (doing two-tone!). I've read that it's best to have the panels vertical but obviously can't do that with the roof. Any tips for getting best results up there? Thin the paint a bit more and plan on extra coats maybe? I do NOT want to sand and buff the final coat if possible as I don't think it ever gets as good of a gloss to it as straight application unless you really spend time on it, which I'm too lazy to do. 
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Gusteve]
#37528
10/02/07 07:30 AM
10/02/07 07:30 AM
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Quote:
That sounds like POR-15 or Rustbullet.
Great for sealing your floorpans or trunk pan. I can't imagine using it on the body.
harminoff, read again what the product says it will do. It will not act as a filler to create a smooth surface, it only treats the metal. It is more like a paint. You will still need to use filler over any irregular surface to get it straight.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37529
10/02/07 01:00 PM
10/02/07 01:00 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
One of the things that concerns me is when I use the foam brush and 'tip' the bubbles I am getting ripples, sort of like brush strokes you'd see with a regular brush. I'm guessing this is because the paint is hardening before flowing out completely.
Quote:
My first thought would be to add a touch more mineral spirit to make it a bit wetter. The one thing you did not mention is the temperatures you are working in. The hotter the temperature the quicker the paint will try to cure or at least form a skin.
What I was doing at one point was doing my rolling at 5:30 in the morning at 11:00 at night. I found the early morning roller job worked out better for me because the overall surface temperature of the body was relatively cool.
The 11:00 at night also was fairly successful, because the car body would have begun cooling down from the day time temperatures it had picked up.
So if the simple addition of some more mineral spirits doesn't help to gain the time needed for the paint to fully self level, then give a try to an early morning session to see if you get better results.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Marq]
#37530
10/02/07 05:21 PM
10/02/07 05:21 PM
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I just finished painting the second coat. I made smaller batches and used a little more brushing liquid, though the first batch was a bit too thin. Live and learn. Actually, I think my problems were multi-faceted. One, I wasn't being quick or aggressive enough with the brush when hitting the bubbles. If I work it more, I can get things levelled out pretty well before it starts to set. I'm getting some really smooth surfaces now. I also did it in the garage this time to avoid getting so much dirt in the paint. It helps, some. The fumes are pretty brutal though, and I still have to work with a door open so I'm not sure how much I'm gaining there. Due to my work schedule I've been doing this in the middle of the day, but you have a good point with the temperature. However, it's also potentially more humid early in the day from overnight, so I'm not sure it will make much difference? I may be willing to try an early morning hit on the last coat. Unless it really cools off in the evening, I'm afraid I'll get moths and bugs in the shop with the door open.  With the 2nd coat, it's looking really good. My only issue now is excessive buildup on the edges of the doors where the roller overlaps. I'll have to try opening the doors and being a bet more conservative at the ends. I'll probably just wet sand a few of the flaws this time and not the whole job. Tip: don't try sticking your tack cloth back in the wrapper while holding it over your freshly painted surface. 
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37531
10/02/07 10:49 PM
10/02/07 10:49 PM
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I've been following this topic for an extremely long time. I did a lawnmower hood over a year ago, ended up rushing it and by 3 coats it was completely covered and was orange peeled like crazy. I've learnt a lot more since then and I've started doing my own bodywork. I'm about to start painting my 74 Nova SS and I'm using the old hood I had on it as a test piece. I'm using Tremclad Dark Blue. 1st Coat(too thick. I wetsanded it down before continuing)  1st Coat Wetsanded:  2nd Coat:  The lighting really worked out well in the picture of the second coat. That's the colour it actually looks like. The pictures of the first coat turned out way lighter then they actually were. Whole tremclad experience will be followed by pictures here: http://www.renowneddesign.net/nova/gallery/?d=fall_07/tremcladI have the fullsize shots in there @ 3mpixels. BTW, I wetsanded using soapy water with 400 grit paper to knock down the extra thick 1st layer. I'm planning on using 600 from now on. 400 Cut's through overdone paint pretty easy. I wouldn't consider using it after the 2nd coat. I found the best way to mix the paint is "Thin it as much as your comefortable with then thin it some more." I was way to heavy the first time and probably could have thinned some more on the second. I never took a close up yet but you still can see the primer underneath through the 2nd coat.
Last edited by topdogger; 10/02/07 10:52 PM.
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