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Roller cam first timer I'd prefer part numbers for stuff you
#3289137
02/13/25 10:36 AM
02/13/25 10:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
cdwmotorsports
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
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Refresher, last year I messed up and hurt my 451. Long story short I didn't read a footnote for a 25 year old set of pistons when putting on new heads. Engine shop called yesterday and the short block is done.
With all of that being said, I'm not going back to a hydraulic flat tappet cam. I want a roller and I want it to last. So my question is who and what.
Who's cam to use and what size is appropriate? Was a .509 Mopar cam
What all parts do I need aside from the cam and lifters. My best guess is, timing cover, cam button, pushrods
I have a set of Manton pushrods I presume won't work with the new cam/lifter combo. I'm ok with seeing if they'll fix them for the new cam.
451, 10.1 is what I was told compression will be with the new pistons and heads which is about where it was prior to my screwing up. 727, TC is currently a Turbo Action 3000 stall (TC set to be upgraded, I'd take suggestions on that too) 8.75 3.91/spool
I drive it on the street and will be doing Dragweek in it this year instead of the Duster I had to use last year due to my mistake. Anything I forgot let me know and I'll include what I know.
Last edited by cdwmotorsports; 02/13/25 11:48 AM.
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: DGS]
#3289161
02/13/25 11:48 AM
02/13/25 11:48 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
cdwmotorsports
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
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Don't forget new valve springs (+retainers) and oil pump drive! What specifically changes for the springs? I presume the oil pump drive goes to bronze?
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: cdwmotorsports]
#3289171
02/13/25 12:08 PM
02/13/25 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,658
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,658
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Will need more spring pressure for the more aggressive roller lobes. Either bronze or a melonized dist. gear. Just call Dwayne Porter (fast68plymouth) for a cam. The dude is awesome at spec'ing cams. 
CHIP
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'70 'cuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
'17 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#3289197
02/13/25 01:36 PM
02/13/25 01:36 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,039
ohio
67mprfan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,039
ohio
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If using stock timing cover, most reinforce it to prevent cam walk
71 demon stock stroke 440/indy ez-1 running 10.10 @ 132.14 mph in the 1/4 and 6.36 @ 107.46 mph in the 1/8 not in the same weekend but It did it then I sold it.
67 Belvedere that worked it's way in the 10's
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: birdtracker]
#3289434
02/14/25 02:42 PM
02/14/25 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,336
Puyallup, WA
LemonWedge
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,336
Puyallup, WA
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remember what they say about opinions. Here is mine. The performance level you are at is no were even close to need a roller cam. Especially for drag and drive events. A stock hydraulic cam would be more reliable and build just as much power. 2 cam choices from my previous builds. Crane made a .528 hydraulic and also the 440 police interceptor camshaft used by State Patrol cars would be a good choice. Birdtracker My opinion differs. We’ve reached a time where I believe roller stuff is now more reliable than flat-tappet designs. Due in large part to materials available to the aftermarket cam manufacturers, or at least the constraints in materials availability that is put on them by cost-driven factors. The fact that every OEM engine in production today utilizes a hydraulic roller valvetrain is evidence of the reliability of the technology. Also, there’s no way you’re going to convince me that a flat tappet at the same overall duration would make just as much power as a roller design. A simple look at a graph showing area under the curve would suggest especially with a moderate cam, you’re getting a LOT more flow capability with a hydraulic roller than a HFT cam. The relatively large dia. Mopar lifter negates this to some extent, IF the flat tappet is a Mopar specific grind. But the realities of the math are still there. With that said, I agree that it’s largely a “no bad choices” situation. There will be pros & cons to whatever is chosen. A flat tappet can perform at the level the OP seems to be targeting, with cost as the main benefit.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready.
468” Lowdeck MaxWedge - 10.42 @ 128
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: LemonWedge]
#3289478
02/14/25 05:08 PM
02/14/25 05:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 750
Southern Alberta
Uberpube
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 750
Southern Alberta
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remember what they say about opinions. Here is mine. The performance level you are at is no were even close to need a roller cam. Especially for drag and drive events. A stock hydraulic cam would be more reliable and build just as much power. 2 cam choices from my previous builds. Crane made a .528 hydraulic and also the 440 police interceptor camshaft used by State Patrol cars would be a good choice. Birdtracker My opinion differs. We’ve reached a time where I believe roller stuff is now more reliable than flat-tappet designs. Due in large part to materials available to the aftermarket cam manufacturers, or at least the constraints in materials availability that is put on them by cost-driven factors. The fact that every OEM engine in production today utilizes a hydraulic roller valvetrain is evidence of the reliability of the technology. Also, there’s no way you’re going to convince me that a flat tappet at the same overall duration would make just as much power as a roller design. A simple look at a graph showing area under the curve would suggest especially with a moderate cam, you’re getting a LOT more flow capability with a hydraulic roller than a HFT cam. The relatively large dia. Mopar lifter negates this to some extent, IF the flat tappet is a Mopar specific grind. But the realities of the math are still there. With that said, I agree that it’s largely a “no bad choices” situation. There will be pros & cons to whatever is chosen. A flat tappet can perform at the level the OP seems to be targeting, with cost as the main benefit. Cummins's roller setup is a dud....The fix for their mess is to go back to solid flat tappets which last forever in that engine. You can use a stock timing cover as is, just put a gob of silicone between the cover and the back of the water pump, works fine. Don't forget a bronze tipped fuel pump rod if you are are running mechanical fuel pump.
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: birdtracker]
#3289664
02/15/25 01:57 PM
02/15/25 01:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
cdwmotorsports
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
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remember what they say about opinions. Here is mine. The performance level you are at is no were even close to need a roller cam. Especially for drag and drive events. A stock hydraulic cam would be more reliable and build just as much power. 2 cam choices from my previous builds. Crane made a .528 hydraulic and also the 440 police interceptor camshaft used by State Patrol cars would be a good choice. Birdtracker What can you tell me about the performance level I'm at? Two Mopar .509's that are no longer any good pushes me away from flat tappets unless someone has a way to make them live. Yes I ran a zinc additive. I'm not running a "stock" police cam in this. While on the subject it's not that large of a price difference from flat tappet to roller. Also Crane "made" is past tense so do they make it now or no?
Last edited by cdwmotorsports; 02/15/25 02:19 PM.
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: cdwmotorsports]
#3289718
02/15/25 05:34 PM
02/15/25 05:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,287
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,287
Bend,OR USA
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remember what they say about opinions. Here is mine. The performance level you are at is no were even close to need a roller cam. Especially for drag and drive events. A stock hydraulic cam would be more reliable and build just as much power. 2 cam choices from my previous builds. Crane made a .528 hydraulic and also the 440 police interceptor camshaft used by State Patrol cars would be a good choice. Birdtracker What can you tell me about the performance level I'm at? Two Mopar .509's that are no longer any good pushes me away from flat tappets unless someone has a way to make them live. Yes I ran a zinc additive. I'm not running a "stock" police cam in this. While on the subject it's not that large of a price difference from flat tappet to roller. Also Crane "made" is past tense so do they make it now or no? Didn't Crane Cams go B.K. several years ago and close up after Harvey Crane died?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3289726
02/15/25 05:41 PM
02/15/25 05:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
cdwmotorsports
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
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remember what they say about opinions. Here is mine. The performance level you are at is no were even close to need a roller cam. Especially for drag and drive events. A stock hydraulic cam would be more reliable and build just as much power. 2 cam choices from my previous builds. Crane made a .528 hydraulic and also the 440 police interceptor camshaft used by State Patrol cars would be a good choice. Birdtracker What can you tell me about the performance level I'm at? Two Mopar .509's that are no longer any good pushes me away from flat tappets unless someone has a way to make them live. Yes I ran a zinc additive. I'm not running a "stock" police cam in this. While on the subject it's not that large of a price difference from flat tappet to roller. Also Crane "made" is past tense so do they make it now or no? Didn't Crane Cams go B.K. several years ago and close up after Harvey Crane died? I sure can't find a website or listings for anything Crane cam. So I'm guessing they're as defunct as AMC
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: moparx]
#3290013
02/17/25 09:50 AM
02/17/25 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,958
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,958
Weddington, N.C.
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If you want a good no fuss Hydraulic, run the Bullet (ultradyne grind) H5/H15 231/239 @.050 .485/507 lift on 108 in at 105. It will scream, if your worried about wiping a lobe just go ahead and get it Parkerized. You can reuse your springs just take the inners out for break in. A roller with stock heads prolly not worth it, even with Edelbrocks it will make all the torque you need. If you want to do a roller, the .4033 Ultradyne lobe is a great endurance/performance lobe very reliable and very Snappy on the street. I run the R28/R65 251/259 @.050 .605 gross lift. I run it in a 440" Small block with W2 heads. 109ICL in at 105. So with 10:1 it will be all over the 509 as well. Jericho and his dad built this stroker 383 to over 500 hp with the old 484 Purple shaft. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3253715/1.html
Last edited by Streetwize; 02/17/25 10:23 AM.
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: Streetwize]
#3290038
02/17/25 11:18 AM
02/17/25 11:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,615
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,615
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I'm not going back to a hydraulic flat tappet cam. I’m not going to try and talk you out of that. If you want similar driveability characteristics as the 509 cam, I’d look for cams with duration @.050 numbers in the high 230’s to mid-240’s, with lifts in the .540-.600 range…….lsa 108-110. Just call your favorite cam supplier.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Roller cam first timer
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#3290137
02/17/25 05:21 PM
02/17/25 05:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
cdwmotorsports
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,534
Martinsville, IN
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I'm not going back to a hydraulic flat tappet cam. I’m not going to try and talk you out of that. If you want similar driveability characteristics as the 509 cam, I’d look for cams with duration @.050 numbers in the high 230’s to mid-240’s, with lifts in the .540-.600 range…….lsa 108-110. Just call your favorite cam supplier. Thank you. Will the Manton pushrods need to be remade? I presume the lifters will be different right?
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