Re: Water freezing
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3282628
01/14/25 12:11 PM
01/14/25 12:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116 Here
jcc
No soup for you!!!
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No soup for you!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116
Here
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My guess, moving it into the truck was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and initiated the crack. What did I win? Also, you need to work harder at retiring.
I forbid my content here from being learned and used by artificial intelligence systems.
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: nuthinbutmopar]
#3282686
01/14/25 05:21 PM
01/14/25 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,511 Warren, MI
71TA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,511
Warren, MI
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Funny. I have a similar ODD water freezing situation. We moved to a house on an island (take a ferry home every night) here in MI. The island is on the river between Lake Huron and Lake St Clair. It's been COLD here. The river froze which is great because the ferry can't run consistantly unless they can break a path in the ice that remains open. Ferry will stop running and people cant get on or off the island if chunks of ice are flowing. Had to stay at a motel a couple days. Old timers said its been down 5 days at a time in the 90's. So the river had frozen solid (ice fishers everywhere) but even though its been COLD it thawed a little 2 days ago and yesterday and overnight THERES NO ICE!? It's in the 20's!!!! Wierd. I can't explain other than all the septics on the island are flowing into the river and melting the ice Think about the volume of water flowing through that river from THREE Great Lakes. Even though the surface is frozen, there's still a lot of water flowing down deep. It doesn't take much of a thaw, combined with the force moving that water to break up the ice. But temps have been the same and colder the past few days/week. The ice was inches (4") thick and heaved up as the ice flows finally merged and formed a jagged solid surface. Then within 2 day flowing water and no ice. Just checked the NOAH station 1/2 mile up the river. 16.5F air and 33.6F water temps.
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: A12]
#3282724
01/14/25 08:07 PM
01/14/25 08:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116 Here
jcc
No soup for you!!!
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No soup for you!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116
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The second post here, mine, mentioned the cracking might have been caused by simply moving the container that might have been nearly frozen.. What the informative video did not touch on that I find interesting is why does ice expand in the first place. Ice crystalizes into a ring, The center open area reduces the density of ice, making it float and expand. This process begins at around 40F, which allows the coldest water to "float" to the surface, likely were the cold air is, and that finishes the freezing process. This top layer of low-density floating ice partly insulates the warmer water below, which is mostly at the bottom of shallow inland lakes, and where fish congregate. Very deep water seldom if ever freezes because of extreme pressure as the video refers to. It's enough to make one a believer, almost.
I forbid my content here from being learned and used by artificial intelligence systems.
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3282749
01/14/25 10:34 PM
01/14/25 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,589 Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,589
Highland, MI.
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We also have bottled water, in addition to our great quality well water. We keep the 5-gallon jugs in our insulated garage, but there have been numerous times over the years where our garage got a little below freezing inside. The water in the jugs have never froze though - they sit on insulated "pads" of dense foam I cut for them. Anyway, several times I've brought them in, cleaned them (like I always do), & then placed them upside-down on the water dispenser, & THEN they start to freeze (crystallize) right before your eyes. They don't freeze solid to where they split the jug however. Somehow agitating the water causes a reaction. It's bizarre.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3282779
01/15/25 04:19 AM
01/15/25 04:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116 Here
jcc
No soup for you!!!
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No soup for you!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116
Here
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This whole discussion is a good lesson in life of being careful of not relying 100% on "common sense", being that cold water rises.
I forbid my content here from being learned and used by artificial intelligence systems.
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#3282853
01/15/25 01:32 PM
01/15/25 01:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,976 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
OP
Itch Nutz
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OP
Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,976
fredericksburg,va
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We also have bottled water, in addition to our great quality well water. We keep the 5-gallon jugs in our insulated garage, but there have been numerous times over the years where our garage got a little below freezing inside. The water in the jugs have never froze though - they sit on insulated "pads" of dense foam I cut for them. Anyway, several times I've brought them in, cleaned them (like I always do), & then placed them upside-down on the water dispenser, & THEN they start to freeze (crystallize) right before your eyes. They don't freeze solid to where they split the jug however. Somehow agitating the water causes a reaction. It's bizarre. You hit something there, a cold sealed bottle of water is liquid UNTILL you break that seal, then like you said, it freezes immediately. The partially frozen jug had less water in it before I put in truck.
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3282866
01/15/25 02:00 PM
01/15/25 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,805 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,805
N.E. OHIO, USA
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We also have bottled water, in addition to our great quality well water. We keep the 5-gallon jugs in our insulated garage, but there have been numerous times over the years where our garage got a little below freezing inside. The water in the jugs have never froze though - they sit on insulated "pads" of dense foam I cut for them. Anyway, several times I've brought them in, cleaned them (like I always do), & then placed them upside-down on the water dispenser, & THEN they start to freeze (crystallize) right before your eyes. They don't freeze solid to where they split the jug however. Somehow agitating the water causes a reaction. It's bizarre. You hit something there, a cold sealed bottle of water is liquid UNTILL you break that seal, then like you said, it freezes immediately. The partially frozen jug had less water in it before I put in truck. I have a little experience with 5-gallon spring drinking water as we have been getting 3-4 5 gallon bottles delivered every two weeks to our 163-year-old farmhouse since December 1989. Most times it sits on the porch for several hours or even overnight. We've only experienced a few partially frozen bottles during those 35 years and never one completely frozen (solid) but my wife always worried that it would happen but never did?? Worst thing that happened was the delivery person put the bottle down on the porch a little hard and put a small crack in the bottom and we didn't notice the leaking water on the bottom of one or two When I put them into the water cooler the leak or crack "vented" the bottles and with no vacuum the now upside-down bottle started to empty themselves all over the floor . Emptied the remaining contents into a good just used bottle and marked it for the delivery person. Always given a new bottle free replacement. So in 35-years how many 5-gallon spring water bottles do you think we have had delivered to us? And there is a reason why I know just how many that have been delivered and how many I have carried in and how many I have put in or onto the water cooler. Anal yes but it was always a fresh bottle.
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: A12]
#3283026
01/16/25 12:21 PM
01/16/25 12:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,976 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
OP
Itch Nutz
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OP
Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,976
fredericksburg,va
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We also have bottled water, in addition to our great quality well water. We keep the 5-gallon jugs in our insulated garage, but there have been numerous times over the years where our garage got a little below freezing inside. The water in the jugs have never froze though - they sit on insulated "pads" of dense foam I cut for them. Anyway, several times I've brought them in, cleaned them (like I always do), & then placed them upside-down on the water dispenser, & THEN they start to freeze (crystallize) right before your eyes. They don't freeze solid to where they split the jug however. Somehow agitating the water causes a reaction. It's bizarre. You hit something there, a cold sealed bottle of water is liquid UNTILL you break that seal, then like you said, it freezes immediately. The partially frozen jug had less water in it before I put in truck. I have a little experience with 5-gallon spring drinking water as we have been getting 3-4 5 gallon bottles delivered every two weeks to our 163-year-old farmhouse since December 1989. Most times it sits on the porch for several hours or even overnight. We've only experienced a few partially frozen bottles during those 35 years and never one completely frozen (solid) but my wife always worried that it would happen but never did?? Worst thing that happened was the delivery person put the bottle down on the porch a little hard and put a small crack in the bottom and we didn't notice the leaking water on the bottom of one or two When I put them into the water cooler the leak or crack "vented" the bottles and with no vacuum the now upside-down bottle started to empty themselves all over the floor . Emptied the remaining contents into a good just used bottle and marked it for the delivery person. Always given a new bottle free replacement. So in 35-years how many 5-gallon spring water bottles do you think we have had delivered to us? And there is a reason why I know just how many that have been delivered and how many I have carried in and how many I have put in or onto the water cooler. Anal yes but it was always a fresh bottle. You use a lot of water, we’d get 5-7 every month, then used in shop, dad’s house and mine. Since mid 70s. The 3 outside were so pluses to be picked back up in June and sat there till I decided to carry back to their warehouse. No warehouse or office anymore. Bottles were always put in our shop, never outside.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 01/16/25 12:21 PM.
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: IMGTX]
#3283141
01/17/25 02:55 AM
01/17/25 02:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116 Here
jcc
No soup for you!!!
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No soup for you!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116
Here
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Water can be super cooled (temp well below freezing) if it is pure enough.
If it is super cooled, once you introduce anything that will start a formation of ice crystals then it will start to solidify immediately.
Since you mentioned they were still sealed. It could be the water was purified enough not to freeze but the crack allowed an impurity to get in and cause solidification.
The impurity could just be a piece of plastic shard from the crack.
I believe as I alluded to earlier here, it needs a smidgen of energy to start the freezing/crystallization process. or simply moving the container, opening the bottle, etc anything, especially when it's as you mentioned super cooled and right at the edge of freezing, the crack/expansion quickly follows later, but they are separate events. Legally it would be explained as "but for", meaning, the shard or minerals etc were present all long, but they precipitated nothing, movement is the consistent key here or "but for". But I may be wrong. Take your best shot.
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Re: Water freezing
[Re: jcc]
#3283182
01/17/25 09:59 AM
01/17/25 09:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116 Here
jcc
No soup for you!!!
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No soup for you!!!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,116
Here
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It should also be noted, the reverse observation is never seen,ie ice never thaws suddenly.
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