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Water freezing #3282618 01/14/25 10:54 AM 01/14/25 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,969 fredericksburg,va C cudaman1969 OP Itch Nutz
cudaman1969 OP Itch Nutz C Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,969 fredericksburg,va	Interesting thing I observed yesterday. I had three 5 gallon water bottles that have been sitting at end of my driveway since June, long story on that but.. Anyway it’s been in the 20s and snow around for over a week, I picked them up yesterday to take back to water company and noticed one had partially froze, the other two ok. After putting them in truck I noticed the frozen one had a small crack (leak) in bottom (they had been on their sides). My question, did the crack make it freeze or did freezing make it crack? Remember the other two didn’t freeze and were in the same place on ground. Did the pressure release from crack enable the freezing process? All three still had their sealing caps still on. Bear with me since I do a lot of ‘contemplating’ nowadays since retiring. What do you think?

Re: Water freezing [Re: cudaman1969] #3282628 01/14/25 12:11 PM 01/14/25 12:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,047 Here J jcc No soup for you!!!
jcc No soup for you!!! J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,047 Here	My guess, moving it into the truck was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and initiated the crack. What did I win? Also, you need to work harder at retiring. I forbid my content here from being learned and used by artificial intelligence systems.

Re: Water freezing [Re: cudaman1969] #3282629 01/14/25 12:12 PM 01/14/25 12:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,508 Warren, MI 71TA I Live Here
71TA I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,508 Warren, MI	Funny. I have a similar ODD water freezing situation. We moved to a house on an island (take a ferry home every night) here in MI. The island is on the river between Lake Huron and Lake St Clair. It's been COLD here. The river froze which is great because the ferry can't run consistantly unless they can break a path in the ice that remains open. Ferry will stop running and people cant get on or off the island if chunks of ice are flowing. Had to stay at a motel a couple days. Old timers said its been down 5 days at a time in the 90's. So the river had frozen solid (ice fishers everywhere) but even though its been COLD it thawed a little 2 days ago and yesterday and overnight THERES NO ICE!? It's in the 20's!!!! Wierd. I can't explain other than all the septics on the island are flowing into the river and melting the ice

Re: Water freezing [Re: 71TA] #3282637 01/14/25 12:45 PM 01/14/25 12:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,102 Central Michigan N nuthinbutmopar super stock
nuthinbutmopar super stock N Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,102 Central Michigan	Originally Posted by 71TA Funny. I have a similar ODD water freezing situation. We moved to a house on an island (take a ferry home every night) here in MI. The island is on the river between Lake Huron and Lake St Clair. It's been COLD here. The river froze which is great because the ferry can't run consistantly unless they can break a path in the ice that remains open. Ferry will stop running and people cant get on or off the island if chunks of ice are flowing. Had to stay at a motel a couple days. Old timers said its been down 5 days at a time in the 90's. So the river had frozen solid (ice fishers everywhere) but even though its been COLD it thawed a little 2 days ago and yesterday and overnight THERES NO ICE!? It's in the 20's!!!! Wierd. I can't explain other than all the septics on the island are flowing into the river and melting the ice Think about the volume of water flowing through that river from THREE Great Lakes. Even though the surface is frozen, there's still a lot of water flowing down deep. It doesn't take much of a thaw, combined with the force moving that water to break up the ice.

Re: Water freezing [Re: nuthinbutmopar] #3282640 01/14/25 01:00 PM 01/14/25 01:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,758 central il. S second 70 top fuel
second 70 top fuel S Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,758 central il.	Thermo dynamics. Same reason you can have 3 bottles of water in refrigerator on same shelve next to each other and 1 will be frozen solid while the other has 0 ice. Themo dynamics equals # you'll never know or figure it out. LOL!

Re: Water freezing [Re: second 70] #3282655 01/14/25 02:42 PM 01/14/25 02:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,028 Freeport IL USA poorboy I Live Here
poorboy I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,028 Freeport IL USA	I suspect the water bottle that split had a defect in it and the cold caused it to finally fail. The water inside of the bottle froze because the cold air got to it by means of the failed part. The water bottles without the frozen water would all completely need to be cooled below freezing before it would start to freeze. A little sun shinning through the plastic bottles would bring the water temps above freezing pretty fast. My thought on the subject, anyway.

Re: Water freezing [Re: cudaman1969] #3282657 01/14/25 02:53 PM 01/14/25 02:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 119 Midwest M MoparsnMissiles member
MoparsnMissiles member M Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 119 Midwest	My thought: Why bother moving the 3 water bottles at all now, they've been sitting there since last June. Wait till next June to move them and none of them will be frozen, and neither will you.

Re: Water freezing [Re: nuthinbutmopar] #3282686 01/14/25 05:21 PM 01/14/25 05:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,508 Warren, MI 71TA I Live Here
71TA I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,508 Warren, MI	Originally Posted by nuthinbutmopar Originally Posted by 71TA Funny. I have a similar ODD water freezing situation. We moved to a house on an island (take a ferry home every night) here in MI. The island is on the river between Lake Huron and Lake St Clair. It's been COLD here. The river froze which is great because the ferry can't run consistantly unless they can break a path in the ice that remains open. Ferry will stop running and people cant get on or off the island if chunks of ice are flowing. Had to stay at a motel a couple days. Old timers said its been down 5 days at a time in the 90's. So the river had frozen solid (ice fishers everywhere) but even though its been COLD it thawed a little 2 days ago and yesterday and overnight THERES NO ICE!? It's in the 20's!!!! Wierd. I can't explain other than all the septics on the island are flowing into the river and melting the ice Think about the volume of water flowing through that river from THREE Great Lakes. Even though the surface is frozen, there's still a lot of water flowing down deep. It doesn't take much of a thaw, combined with the force moving that water to break up the ice. But temps have been the same and colder the past few days/week. The ice was inches (4") thick and heaved up as the ice flows finally merged and formed a jagged solid surface. Then within 2 day flowing water and no ice. Just checked the NOAH station 1/2 mile up the river. 16.5F air and 33.6F water temps.

Re: Water freezing [Re: cudaman1969] #3282697 01/14/25 06:24 PM 01/14/25 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,802 N.E. OHIO, USA A12 Too Many Posts
A12 Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,802 N.E. OHIO, USA	Quote My question, did the crack make it freeze or did freezing make it crack? Remember the other two didn’t freeze and were in the same place on ground. Did the pressure release from crack enable the freezing process? All three still had their sealing caps still on. Bear with me since I do a lot of ‘contemplating’ nowadays since retiring. ??????????????????????????? If you can understand any of this in the two videos then

Re: Water freezing [Re: A12] #3282724 01/14/25 08:07 PM 01/14/25 08:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,047 Here J jcc No soup for you!!!
jcc No soup for you!!! J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,047 Here	The second post here, mine, mentioned the cracking might have been caused by simply moving the container that might have been nearly frozen.. What the informative video did not touch on that I find interesting is why does ice expand in the first place. Ice crystalizes into a ring, The center open area reduces the density of ice, making it float and expand. This process begins at around 40F, which allows the coldest water to "float" to the surface, likely were the cold air is, and that finishes the freezing process. This top layer of low-density floating ice partly insulates the warmer water below, which is mostly at the bottom of shallow inland lakes, and where fish congregate. Very deep water seldom if ever freezes because of extreme pressure as the video refers to. It's enough to make one a believer, almost. I forbid my content here from being learned and used by artificial intelligence systems.

Re: Water freezing [Re: cudaman1969] #3282749 01/14/25 10:34 PM 01/14/25 10:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,572 Highland, MI. Sunroofcuda master
Sunroofcuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,572 Highland, MI.	We also have bottled water, in addition to our great quality well water. We keep the 5-gallon jugs in our insulated garage, but there have been numerous times over the years where our garage got a little below freezing inside. The water in the jugs have never froze though - they sit on insulated "pads" of dense foam I cut for them. Anyway, several times I've brought them in, cleaned them (like I always do), & then placed them upside-down on the water dispenser, & THEN they start to freeze (crystallize) right before your eyes. They don't freeze solid to where they split the jug however. Somehow agitating the water causes a reaction. It's bizarre. No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified

Re: Water freezing [Re: cudaman1969] #3282770 01/15/25 12:14 AM 01/15/25 12:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 44,135 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 44,135 Bend,OR USA	Heat rises, hence the thin frozen part at the top in containers, it is warmer in those containers below the tops Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Water freezing [Re: Cab_Burge] #3282779 01/15/25 04:19 AM 01/15/25 04:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,047 Here J jcc No soup for you!!!
jcc No soup for you!!! J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 24,047 Here	This whole discussion is a good lesson in life of being careful of not relying 100% on "common sense", being that cold water rises. I forbid my content here from being learned and used by artificial intelligence systems.

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