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BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER #3282551 01/13/25 10:49 PM 01/13/25 10:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,200 East Coast A A/MP OP pro stock
A/MP OP pro stock A Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,200 East Coast	Does the the brass gear on the oil pump drive need to be a yearly serviced part(replaced) when used in a street/strip motor?

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: A/MP] #3282555 01/13/25 11:14 PM 01/13/25 11:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,766 Walton's Mountain, Pa Steve1118 master
Steve1118 master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,766 Walton's Mountain, Pa	No. Just check it for slop every year, and when it gets too loose replace it. In 54 years I've replaced it three times. "Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: A/MP] #3282572 01/14/25 01:08 AM 01/14/25 01:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,342 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,342 Oregon	Originally Posted by A/MP Does the the brass gear on the oil pump drive need to be a yearly serviced part(replaced) when used in a street/strip motor? Maybe. We see worn out gears all the time on drag race engines. At the minimum you should pull the distributor out every winter and look at the gear. If it looks fine then run it again, but once it starts to show wear you need to replace it. I'd never go more than two seasons without pulling the gear for an inspection.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: A/MP] #3282585 01/14/25 06:23 AM 01/14/25 06:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 44,209 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 44,209 Bend,OR USA	A "melanized" steel gear may be a better choice for a high miles per year street car Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/14/25 06:27 AM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: Cab_Burge] #3282587 01/14/25 07:10 AM 01/14/25 07:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 10,186 MI, usa dvw I Live Here
dvw I Live Here Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 10,186 MI, usa	The engine in my race car has 1100 passes. The gear hasn't been checked yet this year but in the past it's had minimal wear. Same gear it started with in 2012 turning a HV pump. Doug

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: Cab_Burge] #3282594 01/14/25 08:34 AM 01/14/25 08:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,211 Mo. racerx master
racerx master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,211 Mo.	A "melanized" steel gear may be a better choice What about race only application?

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: racerx] #3282597 01/14/25 09:05 AM 01/14/25 09:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,229 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,229 Ontario, Canada	Quote A "melanized" steel gear may be a better choice workWhat about race only application? The bronze gears wore not only on the teeth but also on the bottom surface of the gear. So it needs to be pulled to check that - not just "slop" in the teeth. Anything that wears is going into the oil pan - and may find a new home along the way - or into the oil pump. In my "opinion", "minimal" wear is totally unacceptable. But when bronze was the only option with a billet cam . well, you know the rest. Melonized is a great leap forward HOWEVER, they're adamant that one should not be used on a cam that has already been using a bronze gear - in other words, to be used with a NEW cam only.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: Stanton] #3282607 01/14/25 10:14 AM 01/14/25 10:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 10,186 MI, usa dvw I Live Here
dvw I Live Here Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 10,186 MI, usa	Originally Posted by Stanton Quote A "melanized" steel gear may be a better choice workWhat about race only application? The bronze gears wore not only on the teeth but also on the bottom surface of the gear. So it needs to be pulled to check that - not just "slop" in the teeth. Anything that wears is going into the oil pan - and may find a new home along the way - or into the oil pump. In my "opinion", "minimal" wear is totally unacceptable. But when bronze was the only option with a billet cam . well, you know the rest. Melonized is a great leap forward HOWEVER, they're adamant that one should not be used on a cam that has already been using a bronze gear - in other words, to be used with a NEW cam only. Mine has the bottom of the gear slightly trimmed. It runs a hardened washer from a Torrington between the gear and the bushing. The bearings always look good on inspection. The bushed roller lifters have even in the motor for over 750 runs (320/830 pressure). Can’t detect any wear issues caused by the bronze particles. Doug

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: dvw] #3282623 01/14/25 11:32 AM 01/14/25 11:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,342 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,342 Oregon	My guess is that not all blocks are machined perfectly since we see engines that come in for rebuilds with gears worn down to sharp edges. We also see gears that look okay after a couple of seasons. I'd say that if you're running a bronze gear you have to check it annually until you are positive that you have a good block or a good setup that doesn't wear it out. I don't think it matters at all if someone else has good luck or bad luck with gear life. I think it depends 100% on how well your block was machined.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: AndyF] #3282638 01/14/25 12:52 PM 01/14/25 12:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,761 central il. S second 70 top fuel
second 70 top fuel S Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,761 central il.	Here's 1 I pulled out of a street hemi solid roller. I have no idea how many miles where on it. Replaced it with a melanized with no problems. I don't know how the heck would the soft brass would have any effect on the cam or the new gear.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: second 70] #3282658 01/14/25 02:56 PM 01/14/25 02:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2021 Posts: 1,486 Loudoun County, VA Brad_Haak pro stock
Brad_Haak pro stock Joined: Dec 2021 Posts: 1,486 Loudoun County, VA	Despite the warnings, I've heard of at least one person on this board who switched from a bronze gear to a melonized gear after the engine had some miles on it. Last I recall, they saw no wear issues when checked later. In my case I swapped 'em out after the new engine's dyno session. I hated the idea of the bronze getting spread all through the engine over time, even though a lot of foiks say their wear issues are "reasonable". From what little street use I've driven since, it looks fine, FWIW. 2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft) 1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: Brad_Haak] #3282659 01/14/25 03:02 PM 01/14/25 03:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,248 Canada Kam*Kuda master
Kam*Kuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,248 Canada	I had a lot more gear wear with 20w50 vs 10w30 1970 Barracuda Convertible 1968 Satellite Street Strip car 1654.5 Mustang 1955 Land Rover

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: Kam*Kuda] #3282663 01/14/25 03:25 PM 01/14/25 03:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 44,209 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 44,209 Bend,OR USA	I'm thinking the soft brass gear is sacrificial in the high RPM, high valve spring pressure, drag race world, maybe not :work I have had some brass gears wear and some that didn't, me thinks AndyF is correct on his thinking on stock Mopar blocks variance on finish machine Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/14/25 03:26 PM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: second 70] #3282832 01/15/25 12:49 PM 01/15/25 12:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 160 Missouri R randavis member
randavis member R Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 160 Missouri	Originally Posted by second 70 Here's 1 I pulled out of a street hemi solid roller. I have no idea how many miles where on it. Replaced it with a melanized with no problems. I don't know how the heck would the soft brass would have any effect on the cam or the new gear. Here is my experience. Each gear was run maybe 4000 miles over two seasons on the street. Standard volume Melling oil pump. You may be able to see the wear on the melonized gear. The cam was also worn. I ended up replacing the cam and gear after these two gears on the original cam. I'll check it next fall for wear. When I purchased the first melonized gear, I didn't see any warning about bronze residue causing accelerated wear. Both melonized gears were purchased from Hughes. The second one I bought had a warning in the product description. Thought I would share this. First gear on Comp roller cam in 511 RB Melonized gear replacing the bronze one on same cam 74 Challenger, bought it new. In 1978 I replaced the original 318 with a 446 and 727. Mild cam, Jardine headers, and Holley Sniper EFI. New engine! 511" RB, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Eagle rotating assy, Comp hyd roller cam, Doug's 2" headers.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: randavis] #3283029 01/16/25 12:27 PM 01/16/25 12:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,761 central il. S second 70 top fuel
second 70 top fuel S Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,761 central il.	Looking at the shaft it sure looks like the bushing in block is worn and needs replaced.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: second 70] #3283096 01/16/25 07:34 PM 01/16/25 07:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 160 Missouri R randavis member
randavis member R Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 160 Missouri	The second shaft I installed was tight. I used a thicker gasket under the distributor at that time. I think that is what you are seeing. I beleive it clearanced itself (maybe??). I didn't have that issue with the third shaft. I'll keep an eye on it. 74 Challenger, bought it new. In 1978 I replaced the original 318 with a 446 and 727. Mild cam, Jardine headers, and Holley Sniper EFI. New engine! 511" RB, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Eagle rotating assy, Comp hyd roller cam, Doug's 2" headers.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: randavis] #3283113 01/16/25 09:09 PM 01/16/25 09:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,211 Mo. racerx master
racerx master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,211 Mo.	Originally Posted by randavis Originally Posted by second 70 Here's 1 I pulled out of a street hemi solid roller. I have no idea how many miles where on it. Replaced it with a melanized with no problems. I don't know how the heck would the soft brass would have any effect on the cam or the new gear. Here is my experience. Each gear was run maybe 4000 miles over two seasons on the street. Standard volume Melling oil pump. You may be able to see the wear on the melonized gear. The cam was also worn. I ended up replacing the cam and gear after these two gears on the original cam. I'll check it next fall for wear. When I purchased the first melonized gear, I didn't see any warning about bronze residue causing accelerated wear. Both melonized gears were purchased from Hughes. The second one I bought had a warning in the product description. Thought I would share this. How are your timing marks acting with the melanized gear compared to the brass one? Any fluttering?

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: racerx] #3283181 01/17/25 09:56 AM 01/17/25 09:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 160 Missouri R randavis member
randavis member R Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 160 Missouri	Timing flutter is how I found the bad bronze gear. The melonized gear was found when a rocker shaft broke on the #2 cylinder. I don't recall any timing flutter, but it isn't wore near as bad as the bronze. We installed a new cam and gear at that time. 74 Challenger, bought it new. In 1978 I replaced the original 318 with a 446 and 727. Mild cam, Jardine headers, and Holley Sniper EFI. New engine! 511" RB, Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, Eagle rotating assy, Comp hyd roller cam, Doug's 2" headers.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: randavis] #3283190 01/17/25 10:55 AM 01/17/25 10:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 748 Central TEXAS!!!! sr4440 super stock
sr4440 super stock Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 748 Central TEXAS!!!!	Anytime I change or put in a new oil pump drive, I pull the intake and check to make sure that I have at least .010 clearance between the distributor and the drive. Looking at the wear on the bottom of the gear, it looks like they were tight and may have contributed to their early demise. Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.

Re: BRASS GEAR OIL DRIVE FOR ROLLER [Re: sr4440] #3283332 01/17/25 11:46 PM 01/17/25 11:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,049 s. e. pa. C calrobb2000 top fuel
calrobb2000 top fuel C Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,049 s. e. pa.	hi my bronse gear was worn on the bottom and verry little tooth wear , no collar to limit travel .

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