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Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: metallicareload] #3223541
03/29/24 01:12 PM
03/29/24 01:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,192
M
MoreParts Offline
super stock
MoreParts  Offline
super stock
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,192
I use Rislone ZDDP Supplement with Mobil 1 Synthetic to get my zinc levels up to mid 1300s.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3223544
03/29/24 01:43 PM
03/29/24 01:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,058
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,058
Benton, IL.
There are a couple of points that I believe are worthy of consideration.

First, comparing stock applications to hotter builds is not apples to apples. Hotter cams have faster ramp rates, higher lifts, and require more valve spring pressure to control. So, an oil or lifter that would give excellent long term service in a stock application, might not fare so well in an application with the above added stresses.

Second, Bob The Oil Guy cautions against adding any additives to your oil. He has found that not all combinations work well together. Some can actually offset others.

For flat tappets, particularly in hot rod applications, having the right oil is critical. But as mentioned before, even the best oil can only do so much. Quality of the cam core, the particular quality of the grind and of course the quality of the lifters have all come into question for years now. And let's not forget that roller lifters have had their own share of problems on the street.

Personally, on a number of different forums, I read many, many guys who have run the Valvoline VR-1 with no problems. And that has been my experience with both my wedges and my Hemis. It just seems hard to justify spending more money on oil with the many years of success by many guys with the Valvoline. The price and ease of access FOR MOST GUYS is the only reason that it leads my list of oils that others have ran too with good results.

Just my twocents


Master, again and still
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: DaveRS23] #3223546
03/29/24 01:59 PM
03/29/24 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,532
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
The Doctor is in.
Neil  Offline
The Doctor is in.

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,532
Eagle, Idaho
There are different types of cam cores out there as well as lifter manufactures and the quality is not all equal anymore. Many of these bigger cam companies have been bought and sold and the guys who used to do it right have retired, or were forced out during mergers.

On the Speed-Talk website you can read all sorts of good info about cam cores (P55) oil additives, where good lifters come from etc..

People are having even low lift RV type cam and lifters fail and not just the race level parts so it's a problem for everyone to be wary of.

I like the idea of the hardened foot on the GM taxi cab lifters in the one video I posted. Other companies should offer that as an option.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Neil] #3223550
03/29/24 02:18 PM
03/29/24 02:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline
master
68LAR  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
Seems like everyone has a different opinion as to what to use and not use. For many years now I have been using Rotilla T 15W 40 with STP. My SFT cam has been in this engine and others since 2008. It’s still good.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: B1MAXX] #3223604
03/29/24 10:05 PM
03/29/24 10:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,343
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,343
Omaha Ne
Originally Posted by B1MAXX
I hate to start this, but I build a few engines a year, The only FT cam I ever lost was with Penn oil at the insistence of my buddy. I typically use VR1. It was also a comp cam. He also broke it in and he is a Chevy guy who ALWAYS spins them over with ignition disconnected until he gets oil pressure prior to firing. I've told him about this, and its like talking to a brick. I feel like I need to knock on some wood now. hammer


The cams he had go flat were also Comp Cams, they are not the quality they used to be since being bought out several years back. the motors were broke in with single springs as well beer

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: TJP] #3223911
03/31/24 09:58 AM
03/31/24 09:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,816
Connecticut
FurryStump Offline
master
FurryStump  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,816
Connecticut
VR-1 here, but I have the EDM lifters. No issues, but if the lifters don’t spin while turning it over by hand. I figure out why and fix it.


best of 11.39 at 117 mph 1.60 60’. 68 340 S Barracuda Fastback F.A.S.T [IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/2mnnnnt.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: FurryStump] #3224160
04/01/24 08:25 AM
04/01/24 08:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,204
Someplace you aren't
S
SomeCarGuy Offline
I Live Here
SomeCarGuy  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,204
Someplace you aren't
VR1 10-w30 for me. I tried last few changes running it with one quart of 20w-50 for a witch’s brew I call 13w-35.

I’ll note the Valvoline website says modern oils have other additives and they do not think a lack of zddp is an issue for flat tappets. I’m not chancing it.


I want my fair share
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3224276
04/01/24 02:22 PM
04/01/24 02:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 313
Northeast Indiana
7
73DAD Offline
enthusiast
73DAD  Offline
enthusiast
7

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 313
Northeast Indiana
SFT in my 528 Hemi, I run 20W50 VR1 and sometimes cut it by half with cheap oil from Dollar General or whatever is cheapest. For stock engines with weak valvesprings, I just straight up run the cheapest oil I can find in the preferred weight.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: 73DAD] #3224311
04/01/24 03:33 PM
04/01/24 03:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,552
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
I Live Here
poorboy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,552
Freeport IL USA
I saw on a few threads on other online hot rod forums where a few engine builders have started dissembling and inspecting the new flat tappet lifters before they were installing them. The report is that many have come in without the springs inside, or had the plunger in cocked so it couldn't move, or the fill port plugged up or sticky so it couldn't pump up with oil. Apparently, they have come across enough poorly assembled liters to warrant dissembling and inspection of each one before installing them.

I have no idea if that is factual or not, just passing info I've read on. In the grand scheme of things, it makes more sense having lifter assembly issues then it does having intermittent issues with oil break down on one cam lobe or an individual cam lobe hardness issue.

In this day and age, I think I would take the time to dissemble the lifters and have a look see at all the lifters I was putting against a new cam. I'd only have to see one poorly assembled lifter to make it always worth the time to check them. Its a pain, but given the number of cam/lifter failures going on these days, an once of prevention might be the difference between being happy and not being happy.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: FurryStump] #3224343
04/01/24 05:27 PM
04/01/24 05:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,228
ILLINOIS
V
volaredon Offline
top fuel
volaredon  Offline
top fuel
V

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,228
ILLINOIS
Originally Posted by FurryStump
VR-1 here, but I have the EDM lifters. No issues, but if the lifters don’t spin while turning it over by hand. I figure out why and fix it.

I never used to hear about spinning lifters in the past (and I've built a few engines) but so far have yet to have a problem with a flat cam besides 1 fuel pump lobe on a /6...... But I didn't know that spinning an over by hand would be enough for the lifters to spin in their bores....
I'm about to do a cam swap in a plain old 318 with hydraulic lifters using a melling cam and MP lifters from 25-30 years ago.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: volaredon] #3224346
04/01/24 05:39 PM
04/01/24 05:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 13
USA
U
Underthinker Offline
member
Underthinker  Offline
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U

Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 13
USA
Hughes Engines website has a really good few pages of cam and lifter installations, decreeing cams and such, use to think it was overkill but I ran a lot of his cams and never ever had any problems when using his instructions. These were all pretty aggressive cams and edm solid lifters. He was a big preacher of spinning the cam with a ratchet and making dang sure all the lifters turned. Very good articles, his oiling system instructions were a mere couple of paragraphs not in the oiling systems article but in the stroker assembly article iirc.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Underthinker] #3224362
04/01/24 07:44 PM
04/01/24 07:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,248
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
master
cudaman1969  Offline
master
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,248
fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted by Underthinker
Hughes Engines website has a really good few pages of cam and lifter installations, decreeing cams and such, use to think it was overkill but I ran a lot of his cams and never ever had any problems when using his instructions. These were all pretty aggressive cams and edm solid lifters. He was a big preacher of spinning the cam with a ratchet and making dang sure all the lifters turned. Very good articles, his oiling system instructions were a mere couple of paragraphs not in the oiling systems article but in the stroker assembly article iirc.

All flat tappet lifters ‘roll’ around the cam, do it slide. Cam turns on outside of lifter not center.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: volaredon] #3224363
04/01/24 07:51 PM
04/01/24 07:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,228
ILLINOIS
V
volaredon Offline
top fuel
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top fuel
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,228
ILLINOIS
Problem with VR 1 is I don't see it on the shelf anywhere locally.
I ordered my last batch via Amazon

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3224439
04/02/24 08:40 AM
04/02/24 08:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,360
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,360
Marion, South Carolina [><]
I use Valvoline VR1 conventional oil in my flat tappet motors. The only reason they don't have rollers in them is they're old and I haven't had a reason to go into them.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: volaredon] #3224440
04/02/24 08:43 AM
04/02/24 08:43 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,238
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,238
nowhere
Originally Posted by volaredon
Problem with VR 1 is I don't see it on the shelf anywhere locally.
I ordered my last batch via Amazon


Welcome to old cars 101.

I drive a 51 Plymouth, almost nothing is off the shelf for it anymore.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: volaredon] #3224443
04/02/24 09:26 AM
04/02/24 09:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,816
Connecticut
FurryStump Offline
master
FurryStump  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,816
Connecticut
Originally Posted by volaredon
Originally Posted by FurryStump
VR-1 here, but I have the EDM lifters. No issues, but if the lifters don’t spin while turning it over by hand. I figure out why and fix it.

I never used to hear about spinning lifters in the past (and I've built a few engines) but so far have yet to have a problem with a flat cam besides 1 fuel pump lobe on a /6...... But I didn't know that spinning an over by hand would be enough for the lifters to spin in their bores....
I'm about to do a cam swap in a plain old 318 with hydraulic lifters using a melling cam and MP lifters from 25-30 years ago.

Yep, I mark each lifter edge with a sharpy towards the center of the valley. Go on my way setting lash and see where the lines are after. A Hyd cam you won’t have the “true” force on the lifter because of no oil pressure. But it is close enough.


best of 11.39 at 117 mph 1.60 60’. 68 340 S Barracuda Fastback F.A.S.T [IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/2mnnnnt.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: volaredon] #3224446
04/02/24 09:29 AM
04/02/24 09:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,944
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
master
Dcuda69  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,944
WI
Originally Posted by volaredon
Problem with VR 1 is I don't see it on the shelf anywhere locally.
I ordered my last batch via Amazon


I buy all my oil and filters from Amazon. The prices are right, delivered to my door in a couple days and I get to avoid that dump known as Walmart.

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Dcuda69] #3224455
04/02/24 10:17 AM
04/02/24 10:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317
Ohio
J
jlatessa Offline
pro stock
jlatessa  Offline
pro stock
J

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317
Ohio
My local NAPA has the VR1 for me in a day or two.

Joe

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3224613
04/02/24 10:29 PM
04/02/24 10:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 377
NW Indiana USA
727specialist Offline
enthusiast
727specialist  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 377
NW Indiana USA
I use the Driven oil as recommend by my machine shop -Rhyne Racing- No additive used
Mopar 590 flat tapped cam. Had the intake off last year the cam looks perfect. Keith

https://drivenracingoil.com/i-30497837-xp4-15w-50-conventional-racing-oil.html

Re: Flat Tappet Guys [Re: Kudakidd] #3226932
04/13/24 08:10 PM
04/13/24 08:10 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 98
Minnesota
TrackPack Offline
member
TrackPack  Offline
member

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 98
Minnesota
I use Driven break in oil, then switch to their high zinc Hot Rod oil. No additives, no problems.

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