Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
#3217299
03/01/24 03:44 PM
03/01/24 03:44 PM
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19_Dart_68
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According to Mahle-Aftermarket's documentation, 3/4 groove bearings promote less HP loss and don't suffer any lubrication loss vs. Full Groove bearings.
Is there any reason to not use 3/4 groove bearings in a BB Mopar stroker engine? Or any better reason(s) to use Full Groove instead of the 3/4-groove?
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: 19_Dart_68]
#3217306
03/01/24 04:28 PM
03/01/24 04:28 PM
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moparacer
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I have a pretty good reason for not using 3/4 groove in my BB. 400 Mains. That being said, the regular ol 876P full groove bearings I am replacing in my engine were put in it in 2018, and I could reused the rod bearings if I wanted to at 800+ hp. And they have a LOT of passes on them. Like 200 a year except for covid year when I only put 110 on it.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: moparacer]
#3217307
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19_Dart_68
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Man, that's awesome! Glad they held up that well for you!
Yeah, guess I should have said RB based stroker...
Last edited by 19_Dart_68; 03/01/24 04:39 PM.
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3217312
03/01/24 04:49 PM
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19_Dart_68
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Are those the same as the MS-1277HG Clevite 77's?
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: 19_Dart_68]
#3217315
03/01/24 04:54 PM
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Cab_Burge
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Are those the same as the MS-1277HG Clevite 77's? I can't answer that sorry. I use to use the Seal Power part number M4500 for the RB motors and their M4400 for the B motors, I think they discontinued the M 4400 several years back I prefer to build the 400 blocks over the 440 blocks due to the thicker main webbing
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3217316
03/01/24 04:58 PM
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19_Dart_68
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Are those the same as the MS-1277HG Clevite 77's? I can't answer that sorry. I use to use the Seal Power part number M4500 for the RB motors and their M4400 for the B motors, I think they discontinued the M 4400 several years back I prefer to build the 400 blocks over the 440 blocks due to the thicker main webbing Ok, I get ya. I think they are the same bearing. I have a '78 440 and I think it is similar to the 400's in that respect.
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: 19_Dart_68]
#3217321
03/01/24 05:47 PM
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AndyF
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According to Mahle-Aftermarket's documentation, 3/4 groove bearings promote less HP loss and don't suffer any lubrication loss vs. Full Groove bearings.
Is there any reason to not use 3/4 groove bearings in a BB Mopar stroker engine? Or any better reason(s) to use Full Groove instead of the 3/4-groove? I use 3/4 groove if I can find them. Sometimes it is really hard to find bearings these days so you just live with what you can get. In the old days when parts were available we used 3/4 groove on everything.
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: 19_Dart_68]
#3217331
03/01/24 06:34 PM
03/01/24 06:34 PM
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Brad_Haak
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I like the Speed Pro 119M 3/4-groove main (although they're really more like a 5/8 with a wide groove if you look closely). That said, I wouldn't think twice about running a traditional full-groove, which I have in the past. I know Cab is a big proponent of the narrow-type full-groove and I'd consider those if I couldn't get my preferred 119Ms.
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: 19_Dart_68]
#3217355
03/01/24 08:01 PM
03/01/24 08:01 PM
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moparacer
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Man, that's awesome! Glad they held up that well for you!
Yeah, guess I should have said RB based stroker... I was just commenting for the sake of the full groove 3/4 groove debate. I would probably run a 3/4 groove if it was an option but it isn't. And I never had any problems I could link to full.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: dvw]
#3218003
03/04/24 01:56 PM
03/04/24 01:56 PM
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W.I.N. Racing
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Here is the info from Clevite with the attached Graphs Various forms of main bearing grooving have been used over the years. We are frequently asked what difference grooving makes. First, it’s essential to understand that bearings depend on a film of oil to keep them separated from the shaft surface. This oil film is developed by shaft rotation. As the shaft rotates it pulls oil into the loaded area of the bearing and rides up on this film much like a tire hydroplaning on wet pavement. Grooving in a bearing acts like tread in a tire to break up the oil film. While you want your tires to grip the road, you don’t want your bearings to grip the shaft. The primary reason for having any grooving in a main bearing is to provide oil to the connecting rods. Without rod bearings to feed, a simple oil hole would be sufficient to lubricate a main bearing. Many early engines used full grooved bearings and some even used multiple grooves. As engine and bearing technology developed, bearing grooving was removed from modern lower main bearings. The result is in a thicker film of oil for the shaft to ride on. This provides a greater safety margin and improved bearing life. Upper main shells, which see lower loads than the lowers, have retained a groove to supply the connecting rods with oil. In an effort to develop the best possible main bearing designs for performance engines, we’ve investigated the effects of main bearing grooving on bearing performance. The graphs illustrate that a simple 180-degree groove in the upper main shell is still the best overall design. While a slightly shorter groove of 140 degrees provides a marginal gain, most of the benefit is to the upper shell, which doesn’t need improvement. On the other hand, extending the groove into the lower half, even as little as 20 degrees at each parting line (220 degrees in total), takes away from upper bearing performance without providing any benefit to the lower half. It’s also interesting to note that as groove length increases so do horsepower loss and peak oil film pressure which is transmitted directly to the bearing.
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: W.I.N. Racing]
#3219890
03/12/24 07:57 AM
03/12/24 07:57 AM
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19_Dart_68
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Here is the info from Clevite with the attached Graphs Various forms of main bearing grooving have been used over the years. We are frequently asked what difference grooving makes. First, it’s essential to understand that bearings depend on a film of oil to keep them separated from the shaft surface. This oil film is developed by shaft rotation. As the shaft rotates it pulls oil into the loaded area of the bearing and rides up on this film much like a tire hydroplaning on wet pavement. Grooving in a bearing acts like tread in a tire to break up the oil film. While you want your tires to grip the road, you don’t want your bearings to grip the shaft. The primary reason for having any grooving in a main bearing is to provide oil to the connecting rods. Without rod bearings to feed, a simple oil hole would be sufficient to lubricate a main bearing. Many early engines used full grooved bearings and some even used multiple grooves. As engine and bearing technology developed, bearing grooving was removed from modern lower main bearings. The result is in a thicker film of oil for the shaft to ride on. This provides a greater safety margin and improved bearing life. Upper main shells, which see lower loads than the lowers, have retained a groove to supply the connecting rods with oil. In an effort to develop the best possible main bearing designs for performance engines, we’ve investigated the effects of main bearing grooving on bearing performance. The graphs illustrate that a simple 180-degree groove in the upper main shell is still the best overall design. While a slightly shorter groove of 140 degrees provides a marginal gain, most of the benefit is to the upper shell, which doesn’t need improvement. On the other hand, extending the groove into the lower half, even as little as 20 degrees at each parting line (220 degrees in total), takes away from upper bearing performance without providing any benefit to the lower half. It’s also interesting to note that as groove length increases so do horsepower loss and peak oil film pressure which is transmitted directly to the bearing.
Yep, that's the info I was referring to. Good research on their part.
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: AndyF]
#3219891
03/12/24 07:58 AM
03/12/24 07:58 AM
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19_Dart_68
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According to Mahle-Aftermarket's documentation, 3/4 groove bearings promote less HP loss and don't suffer any lubrication loss vs. Full Groove bearings.
Is there any reason to not use 3/4 groove bearings in a BB Mopar stroker engine? Or any better reason(s) to use Full Groove instead of the 3/4-groove? I use 3/4 groove if I can find them. Sometimes it is really hard to find bearings these days so you just live with what you can get. In the old days when parts were available we used 3/4 groove on everything. That is the way I am going. The 3/4 groove set wound up fitting much better across all of the mains than the full groove set did.
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: 19_Dart_68]
#3219892
03/12/24 07:58 AM
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Thanks for all the replies, all!
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: 19_Dart_68]
#3223579
03/29/24 07:30 PM
03/29/24 07:30 PM
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So what are people opinions of 3/4 groove Speed pro 119M vs. Clevite MS-2233HG ?
Also, Has anyone ever measured bearing eccentricity ? I'm dial boring my engine bearings now to calculate clearance and don't know what to expect.
AG.
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Re: Full Groove vs. 3/4 Groove Mains for BB Mopar
[Re: AndyF]
#3223660
03/30/24 09:37 AM
03/30/24 09:37 AM
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If both of them fit (meaning no interference with the radius or the block) I would run the ones that gave me closest to the clearance I wanted.
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