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Alignment off after a wheelstand #3184307
10/16/23 08:42 AM
10/16/23 08:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline OP
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an8sec70cuda  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Last run I made w/ my cuda had a hard landing when it stood up. Smashed the oil pan pretty good, but I didn't see any witness marks on anything else, so I think the pan was the only thing that hit the ground.
Drove the car a few weeks ago and it's pulling to the RIGHT. Found a sticking brake caliper on the LEFT. Just got the brakes fixed and back together this weekend, but haven't been able to drive it due to rain and too many other things to do.
I don't see anything that looks bent or obviously damaged, but I know that it would have to be pretty bad to actually be able to see it. The steering wheel is no longer centered when straight. I don't think the car is damaged as far as frame structure b/c all the door gaps still seem fine.

My question is what have yall found damaged in the suspension after a hard landing? I'm hoping to get it aligned this coming weekend and hopefully they'll be able to tell me what happened. I would like to have an idea of what to look for if any of you have had this issue.

image0000.JPG

CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3184311
10/16/23 08:58 AM
10/16/23 08:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 138
Connellsville
7
71Demon528 Offline
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71Demon528  Offline
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Posts: 138
Connellsville
We had to replace my dads idler arm after he did the same thing, then re checked the tow and can’t remember if he had to adjust it much or not.

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3184312
10/16/23 08:59 AM
10/16/23 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,212
Minn
S
SportF Offline
pro stock
SportF  Offline
pro stock
S

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,212
Minn
Steering box mount, or even a cracked mount on the box itself.

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: SportF] #3184322
10/16/23 09:24 AM
10/16/23 09:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.


When my son did the 330 foot wheelie last year it bent the strut plate that connects to the rack. Not sure what type of set up you have.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: pittsburghracer] #3184323
10/16/23 09:28 AM
10/16/23 09:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline OP
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Forgot to add that the car still has all stock front suspension and steering. up


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3184335
10/16/23 10:05 AM
10/16/23 10:05 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,189
aZLiViN
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J_BODY Offline
I Live Here
J_BODY  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,189
aZLiViN
Yeah….. we got an alignment after the wheel stand all right.

IMG_0591.jpeg
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: J_BODY] #3184357
10/16/23 12:07 PM
10/16/23 12:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
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Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
If there is a good front end alignment shop near you that specializes in race cars, they can check your car over and set it for the track.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3184358
10/16/23 12:08 PM
10/16/23 12:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,021
NY
B
B1duster Offline
master
B1duster  Offline
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B

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Posts: 3,021
NY
I would put the car on ramps or a drive on lift.
Put the steering wheel perfectly straight and eyeball down each side of car.
Most likely one wheel will be straight and the other toed in or toed out.
Take a good look at side that doesn’t look right

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: B1duster] #3184371
10/16/23 12:55 PM
10/16/23 12:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
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Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
Start by checking the toe. If the wheel is off the toe has changed. Usually a toe change is caused by a camber change. It doesn't take much. Look at the front tires. Are they layed in? Check with a digital level. If the wheel has only moved 1/8 turn or so nothing has probably moved very far.
Doug

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3184375
10/16/23 01:10 PM
10/16/23 01:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,917
A shed in England
Tig Offline
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Tig  Offline
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Posts: 2,917
A shed in England
Yeah we've done that a few times now, last time was the worst after bending the wheelie bar mounts. After starting to move right it came down hard enough to buckle the pan, bend the QA1 cross member where it touched the floor and spring the spot welds off a little panel that attaches to the shock mount and fender on the RHS (it wasn't that good in the first place by the look of it). We have engine bars tied to the cage, I can also remember hurting my back.
The steering was a little toed out after that too, we checked stuff and re-assembled after replacing the QA1 cross member. The cross member was a little tight width wise to get in so we may have tweaked the frame rails a little. Then I spent a day with a castor camber gauge and a toe gauge, had to add some +ve camber on the LHS which meant adjusting the castor all over again but we got it in the end after going back and forth with the settings. Car ran OK with no issues on return but we had to wait some time for the QA1 stuff.

[Linked Image]


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: Tig] #3184380
10/16/23 01:44 PM
10/16/23 01:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,676
On the parachute mount
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n20mstr Offline
master
n20mstr  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,676
On the parachute mount
Stock K frame ? Don’t forget the idler arm and the lower arms locate off the K . If it touched one or all of this could move . Check the alignment settings where they are now , that will be best indicator of what moved


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: n20mstr] #3184384
10/16/23 01:53 PM
10/16/23 01:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,510
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
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340Cuda  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,510
Tulsa, Oklahoma
My car, a 69 Barracuda, cracked the mount for the left front upper control arm bushing after it started doing wheelstands, however this was before the giant smash the pan and headers wheelie it had pre wheelie bars.

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: 340Cuda] #3184489
10/16/23 10:53 PM
10/16/23 10:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 158
Kansas
T
Thelma133 Offline
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Thelma133  Offline
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Posts: 158
Kansas
Mine was not quite as high as yours is in the picture. I put an alterkation on my dart. It’s bullet proof. Have you thought about wheelie bars?

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: Thelma133] #3184550
10/17/23 08:26 AM
10/17/23 08:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline OP
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
The steering box and mounts all look good. Idler arm doesn't look bent, but I'm not 100% sure b/c I didn't take it apart. I held a good one up close to it to eyeball it, lol.
The rear UCA cam bolt on the driver's side looks like it may have moved, but I don't see any damage to anything around the UCA bushings.

Gonna take it in for an alignment and see how it goes.

No wheelie bars allowed in the usual classes I run. This car is going way faster than it should be for what's done to it. Seriously considering either making some changes in the near future or just hanging it up for a while.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3184554
10/17/23 08:50 AM
10/17/23 08:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 307
OH
T
TheBlackCar Offline
enthusiast
TheBlackCar  Offline
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OH
I put reference marks with a paint pen on the UCA adjustment bolts/washers for a quick visual check in the future. Also look at the Upper BJ cup if you have aftermarket UCA's, stretched a couple of those.

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: TheBlackCar] #3184594
10/17/23 12:50 PM
10/17/23 12:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 781
MD
HEMI472 Offline
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HEMI472  Offline
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Posts: 781
MD
its all ways going to happen till you get rid of the cam bolts

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: dvw] #3184595
10/17/23 12:52 PM
10/17/23 12:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,296
NE Ohio
DoubleD Offline
top fuel
DoubleD  Offline
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Posts: 2,296
NE Ohio
Originally Posted by dvw
Start by checking the toe. If the wheel is off the toe has changed. Usually a toe change is caused by a camber change. It doesn't take much. Look at the front tires. Are they layed in? Check with a digital level. If the wheel has only moved 1/8 turn or so nothing has probably moved very far.
Doug


That's a good idea - never thought about using a digital level - just ordered one!

Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: TheBlackCar] #3184596
10/17/23 01:01 PM
10/17/23 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,022
MN
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JERICOGTX Offline
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Posts: 10,022
MN
Originally Posted by TheBlackCar
I put reference marks with a paint pen on the UCA adjustment bolts/washers for a quick visual check in the future. Also look at the Upper BJ cup if you have aftermarket UCA's, stretched a couple of those.



I did that with my car. No huge wheelstands, but so far nothing has moved.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3185843
10/23/23 08:49 AM
10/23/23 08:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline OP
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
The driver's side rear cam bolt moved a lot and rounded out the hole in the cam washer. Also both upper ball joints were in rough shape.
Replaced both upper ball joints and all 4 UCA bushings. Going to get it aligned ASAP and hopefully be good to go for the KOS race on 11/18 in Rockingham.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Alignment off after a wheelstand [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3186336
10/25/23 07:44 AM
10/25/23 07:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 290
Long Island, NY
ValiantRich Offline
enthusiast
ValiantRich  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 290
Long Island, NY
I have had similar problems and the cure is to have a roller bearing idler arm. Mine was done by MR2 performance. The upper control arm cams were tack welded to the body after front end alignment. I do have to set the toe in periodically but nothing drastic like it used to be. Hope this helps.







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