E body rotor upgrade
#3175257
09/14/23 09:35 PM
09/14/23 09:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,186 clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Posts: 1,186
clarks summit pa
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I currently have the 11.75 brake setup installed on my cuda, but the rotors that I got with the kit are cheap made in China rotors, so while I'm putting the front suspension back together, I'm considering changing them for piece of mind. Which brand are the best to go with? Also, I've seen wilwood makes a 12.19" setup that they claim will fit under a 15" wheel that I was considering. I'm not sure if they will hold up to street driving, or if they're race only. Would there be a noticeable difference between the 11.75 and the 12.19" setups? I'm just looking for the best possible braking with 15" wheels. Thanks for the help.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3175275
09/15/23 12:09 AM
09/15/23 12:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,718 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,718
Bend,OR USA
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How about adding dual rotors and calipers on the rear end? Also the type of linings used can make a really big difference in how the cars stops : work:
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3175290
09/15/23 06:47 AM
09/15/23 06:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,186 clarks summit pa
73cuda340
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super stock
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I just put a new Dana 60 in the car that came with the same wilwood rear disc kit for the back of the car.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3175393
09/15/23 02:51 PM
09/15/23 02:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,294 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,294
Someplace you aren't
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You might see if EBC sells the 11.75. They are made in England. Only place I know of that makes things someplace other than at our enemies.
In the past year I’ve looked with considerable interest in the Baer setup. Requires 15s so you are ahead there. I have 14s with newish rubber so it balloons the cost, plus I like my oem look so I’m going to pass for now. There is a video on YouTube by mopar connection about the install.
I want my fair share
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: A990]
#3175480
09/15/23 08:05 PM
09/15/23 08:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,186 clarks summit pa
73cuda340
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clarks summit pa
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I tried looking up EBC rotors on their website, but couldn't find any.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3175489
09/15/23 08:52 PM
09/15/23 08:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,269 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,269
Here
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"upgrade" here is rather unlimited and subjective. On rotors you have 4.5 typical upgrade options, Diameter, thickness, material, fins, and mounting. Diameter choice is based on wheel chosen and budget. Thickness is based mainly on budget and application, thicker being more robust and then fin count and design (direction) of rotor cooling fins, material is the very standard almost universally cast iron, Titanium and CF, both relatively extremely expensive, but significantly lighter, etc, and lastly mounting, integral mounting hub (cheapest/common), separate alum? rotor mounting hat, and a floating rotor style, double the cost but the ideal set-up for repeated braking helps with kick back issues. Best bang for buck IMO is Wilwood CI 12.19" 48+ fin 1.25", alum hat, with 4 or 6 piston caliper in front, forget the rears btw, but use an adjustable brake pressure valve to fine tune F/R balance after making calculated choices above.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: AndyF]
#3175518
09/16/23 12:04 AM
09/16/23 12:04 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,186 clarks summit pa
73cuda340
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I'd love to have a 13" setup, however I want to stick with 15" wheels, so I'm very limited as far as true .performance brake kits. Wilwood seem to be the only ones that will fit with 15" wheels. I was looking into the setup suggested by jcc above. Would the swap to the 12.19 and 6 piston dynapros over the 11.75 and wilwood dynalites be worth it? Just looking to get the best braking possible.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3175544
09/16/23 07:30 AM
09/16/23 07:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,269 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,269
Here
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IMO, yes, it would be a worthy improvement, but one thing very important to be decided, as tires vary greatly in their performance, but they all do the same thing, you have nearly a dozen choices for the pads. and they vary as much as tires do, luckily, they are easy to change but are not costly. Don't forget here, brakes stop the wheel. tires stop the car.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3175550
09/16/23 08:10 AM
09/16/23 08:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,298 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
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West Coast, USA
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Are the rotors warped out of the box? The 11 3/4" one-piece rotors I have on both my A & E bodies work great for my needs. I generally don't race on a track, other than at Willow Springs before Spring Fling. These rotors have held up well for years. I use the brake pads available from Firm Feel in both cars, and I am happy with them.
Most people don't push their cars very hard, but I enjoy the performance they are capable of. It's not often I stretch their legs to more than 150 mph, but even at those speeds the brakes we are talking about have never faded. I did have an incident where a new car slammed on the brakes in front of me for people trying to J-walk across a freeway, and I almost hit her due to my front wheels locking.
Rotors and brakes are relatively easy to get to and change, so I'd consider spending the $ on other things until you find out if what you have will work for your needs. Drive it enjoy it and find out first hand if you need more brake.
Last edited by jbc426; 09/16/23 08:12 AM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: jbc426]
#3175739
09/16/23 10:31 PM
09/16/23 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,186 clarks summit pa
73cuda340
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The rotors aren't warped or anything. I only have about 100 miles on them, but I'm not impressed with the brakes on the car at all. I don't think I could even lock them up if I tried. It's not dangerous to drive the car, but in an emergency situation, I don't feel confident with them. Im just looking to get the best possible brakes with my setup. I could always sell the existing parts and put it towards a new kit.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: AndyF]
#3175761
09/17/23 05:36 AM
09/17/23 05:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,569 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
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master
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Abilene, Texas
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If you can't lock up your brakes with a factory 11.75 system then you have a problem. Hard to say what the problem is in an old car since it could be most anything. Most likely the wrong master cylinder but it could be a bad prop valve, a bad caliper, wrong pads, rear brakes not working at all, etc. The factory 11.75 setup is heavy and clunky, but it worked well enough that cop cars used it for years. If you have the big rear drums out back then the 11.75 front brakes work just fine. I agree. It’s not your rotors.youve got problems elsewhere.
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: fastmark]
#3175776
09/17/23 08:30 AM
09/17/23 08:30 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,186 clarks summit pa
73cuda340
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super stock
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I figured something else was wrong with the system, so I've already swapped out the master cylinder and proportioning valve. It had a parts store remanufactured master cylinder on it with an unknown bore size, so I went with one of the new wilwood mopar 4 bolt compact master cylinders with their recommended 15/16" bore size. I also just installed a new Dana 60 that came with the 12.19" wilwood rear disc kit, so that will rule out any possibility with the original rear drum brakes that were on it.
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: 73cuda340]
#3175985
09/18/23 09:58 AM
09/18/23 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,186 clarks summit pa
73cuda340
OP
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From what I've read, the 4 piston wilwood calipers that it has on it now has a piston area of 4.81" sq. and the 6 piston calipers that come with the 12.19" kit are 5.06" sq. This should be a pretty big difference with the larger rotors and more surface area with the calipers correct?
1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip,
(JA5) Silver Frost Metallic
1973 Challenger Rallye 340
1985 W150 Power Ram prospector
1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#3176012
09/18/23 11:30 AM
09/18/23 11:30 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,497 nowhere
Sniper
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But Andy's point mentioned here if one is able to lock the brakes, you have enough brake power, just not enough tire has a lot of merit. Ability to lock the brakes with a cold rotor and a hot rotor are often vastly different. Brake fade. That can be mitigated by pad material choice to some extent this is why race pads don;t work till they warm up, additional cooling can help. Larger rotors extends the time it takes to get that hot. If you ever look at Nascar rotors, they glow red under braking but they don't fade, materials choice.
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Re: E body rotor upgrade
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#3176025
09/18/23 12:10 PM
09/18/23 12:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,269 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,269
Here
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But Andy's point mentioned here if one is able to lock the brakes, you have enough brake power, just not enough tire has a lot of merit. Ability to lock the brakes with a cold rotor and a hot rotor are often vastly different. Brake fade. The point remains, you can lock the brakes, or you cannot, and no matter what the situation, driving down Pikes Peak or pulling a semi, the conclusion is the still same.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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