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Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3173428
09/06/23 06:10 PM
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Here you go. This big Hemi with a hyd roller cam made 900+ hp. Some of their choices might not be right for you, but this is one way to go. Need a tall scoop though for the intake they used.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/gen-2-hemi-engine-900-hp-valley-performance/

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: AndyF] #3173433
09/06/23 06:23 PM
09/06/23 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Here you go. This big Hemi with a hyd roller cam made 900+ hp. Some of their choices might not be right for you, but this is one way to go. Need a tall scoop though for the intake they used.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/gen-2-hemi-engine-900-hp-valley-performance/


Perfect, right up the road in Ionia too.

Write one check and be done!


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: ZIPPY] #3173438
09/06/23 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ZIPPY
Originally Posted by AndyF
Here you go. This big Hemi with a hyd roller cam made 900+ hp. Some of their choices might not be right for you, but this is one way to go. Need a tall scoop though for the intake they used.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/gen-2-hemi-engine-900-hp-valley-performance/


Perfect, right up the road in Ionia too.

Write one check and be done!


Better yet!

https://nelsonracingengines.com/collections/hemi-mopar/products/nre-twin-turbo-mopar-hemi-572


1970 Super Bee prostreet. 383, SMR 727, Dana 60 4:88. Building a 512 low deck.
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: 500ciBee] #3173473
09/06/23 09:13 PM
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Florida
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Wouldn't a wrecked Hellcat motor pullout be cheaper and more reliable for a driver?

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Bad340fish] #3174540
09/11/23 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad340fish
Subscribing for the inevitable...….

"Thoughts on what to change to run 8.50s"

eek grin


laugh2 laugh2 laugh2 8.50's would require a 572 with twins or 3 kits, and it would need a rossler turbo 400 at that weight!

Thanks guys, and Tony- that's definitely inspiring. Especially if it's getting a rollbar, I need to start figuring out a way to cut weight out of it. I'm super impressed at the idea of a stock block, stock stroke 440 with stacked plate kits that lived. You know what you're doing with tuning!!

The Hemi idea is a turn key solution to big power, same with a hellcat swap, but the level of fab work required for either of those is realistically past what I'm willing to undertake. For now I'll start with redoing the interior and getting a rollbar in it, and then keep saving for another motor. While the interior is out for the rollbar install I'll see what can be removed from the doors, the hvac box, seat frames, etc.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3195560
12/05/23 09:08 PM
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Update: just bought one of the 4.500 bore Callies blocks when it was on sale, so it's time to build a mild 540, 557 or 572. I wanted to do a BMP aluminum block but for my use case I think cast iron made more sense. Any of them will get me to reliable 10.0's, so I just have to pick a stroke and get appropriate pistons, cam and related components. I want to use my TF270's, internal oiling, and keep it as maintenance free as possible as long as I keep the nitrous tune safe.

Edit: also worth mentioning, I got into Sick Summer again for 2024. I really need to get cracking on a rollbar!

Last edited by Blusmbl; 12/05/23 10:04 PM.

'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3195577
12/05/23 10:07 PM
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That is a big step forward. If it was me I'd do a 4.50 x 4.25 with 7.10 long rods. You'll most likely need to buy custom pistons to get the compression correct for your application. The TF270 heads will work great with 540 cubic inches.
You could go 4.500 but then the internal oiling starts to get tricky. Typically a 4.250 stroke with 2.200 rod journals will clear normal street pans, pickups and windage trays.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3195592
12/06/23 12:28 AM
12/06/23 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Update: just bought one of the 4.500 bore Callies blocks when it was on sale, so it's time to build a mild 540, 557 or 572. I wanted to do a BMP aluminum block but for my use case I think cast iron made more sense. Any of them will get me to reliable 10.0's, so I just have to pick a stroke and get appropriate pistons, cam and related components. I want to use my TF270's, internal oiling, and keep it as maintenance free as possible as long as I keep the nitrous tune safe.

Edit: also worth mentioning, I got into Sick Summer again for 2024. I really need to get cracking on a rollbar!

Moving up!


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3195621
12/06/23 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Update: just bought one of the 4.500 bore Callies blocks when it was on sale, so it's time to build a mild 540, 557 or 572. I wanted to do a BMP aluminum block but for my use case I think cast iron made more sense. Any of them will get me to reliable 10.0's, so I just have to pick a stroke and get appropriate pistons, cam and related components. I want to use my TF270's, internal oiling, and keep it as maintenance free as possible as long as I keep the nitrous tune safe.

Edit: also worth mentioning, I got into Sick Summer again for 2024. I really need to get cracking on a rollbar!


Awesome! Now you can give it all the horsepowers!


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3195635
12/06/23 10:57 AM
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Excellent choice although you're adding probably 100+ pounds. Now you have MANY options. At least a 4,25 crank! You'll be able to throw some duration at it too.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3195637
12/06/23 11:05 AM
12/06/23 11:05 AM
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The plot thickens smile
Congrats!
Hell of an investment there in good ol' P5153843 (casting number) smile

Experience that may or may not help:
I blacksmithed an off the shelf 1/2" internal pickup to clear the Molnar rods on mine with 4.50 stroke, it did clear, but I hated it and felt pretty bad about it, so I went external pickup using the existing hole in the front of the block.

That hole in the front of the block is pretty convenient to run a single external pickup.

For internal only/no exceptions I'd either go directly to 4&1/4 or look into the less common 4&3/8 stroke which also might be OK.

Internal pickup tube could have been fully fabricated, or smaller size used.

Re: Smaller size---You know how the pickup adapter bolts on with two 1/4-20s...Back in the olden days they shipped a 3/8" npt with a
wedge block, maybe they still do and it'll work easier for you (worth a look because it would have an easier time clearing the rods than the 1/2" that I used, regardless of stroke or connecting rod type).

Came across a website with the prices frozen in 2008, for entertainment purposes:
https://moparsupercenter.com/mopar-...-iron-siamesed-bore-block-p5153860-.html





Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: ZIPPY] #3195739
12/06/23 04:39 PM
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BIGGER THE BETTER

NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: n20mstr] #3195838
12/07/23 10:05 AM
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Thanks guys. I'd actually bought a standard bore '78 440 block last month that I initially planned on building and was going to accept the risk that I'd eventually crack it, but after adding up the machining costs to get that usable vs. buying this, it really seemed like spending the extra ~$4k difference upfront was worth it. Going to do it once and do it correctly, and now I won't have to worry about hurting the block just through fatigue. Time to upgrade the nitrous supply line from a -4 to a -6. laugh2

Great info Rich, thank you. I'll look to see what pickup adapter it comes with when it shows up. Sounds like a 540 and possibly a 557 would fall together no problem, but a 572 would need a 3/8" pickup instead of 1/2" and still might require clearancing.

Andy, your point is well taken as well. The 270's might be a little small for a 572 but should be perfect at 540". It's geared that with 12% converter slip, 7000 rpm is ~135 mph and that'll be the new goal for 1/4 mile mph.



'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3195881
12/07/23 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Time to upgrade the nitrous supply line from a -4 to a -6. laugh2





-4 is for motorcycles and such! grin


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3195920
12/07/23 04:28 PM
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I have a customers with 500+ inch engines running both TF270 and Indy EZ heads. Those engines make 850 to 870 hp with high compression and drag race roller cams. For a street engine with 10:1 compression and a street roller cam profile I think you could easily make 700 hp and probably close to 700 torque. The cam will be a key choice. You'll also need a good intake and a 1050 Dominator. I think the TF race intake with the MW ports and the 4500 flange is what I'd buy but the Edelbrock Super Victor is also a good choice. I've never run a Dominator on the street but I'd think it could be made to work on 540 inches. You could also go with a 4500 flange Holley Sniper. The big Sniper will work great on the street and it gives you the ability to control the timing with the computer as well as interface to a Digital Dash. All depends on which way you wan to go.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: AndyF] #3195932
12/07/23 05:10 PM
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just some ideas
572 or bigger 7-900hp
E85
1 gal enrichment cell
NX billet crossbar plate -6 line 400? more hp
"good" nitrous controller up


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: n20mstr] #3196033
12/08/23 10:06 AM
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Blues, your project is something i would love to do, if i wasn't as deep into my dart . Making a big boat fly turns heads, is comfortable, and IMHO just flat cool . I am looking forward to eventual dyno results, and hope you can get a 10.00 time slip!
According to Wallace calcs, 780 to 820 actual hp will get it done. Maybe 700 motor, and a mild 150 shot?

Last edited by gregsdart; 12/08/23 10:11 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: gregsdart] #3196035
12/08/23 10:19 AM
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The bigger the better, but will probably depend on what you're willing to do as far as oiling. A 700 hp 540+ inch motor is easy and will be really mild. A 150-200 plate on top of it will easily do what you want to do.
When you get bored w/ it...put in a real cam and more head work. Then put the man jets in it. smoke

My sled isn't as heavy as your car, but could probably be used to somewhat gauge your combo off of.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: n20mstr] #3196054
12/08/23 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by n20mstr
just some ideas
572 or bigger 7-900hp
E85
1 gal enrichment cell
NX billet crossbar plate -6 line 400? more hp
"good" nitrous controller up


The Pro Power NX plate is what we upgraded to last year and I've been happy with it so far. It is capable of 500 hp. We also run a dedicated small fuel cell and pump for the nitrous.

You're doing exactly what I would like to do in the next couple of years!


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: GY3] #3196199
12/09/23 12:26 AM
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Spent the last couple days reading about 572" combos and it seems pretty universal at that point they need to go to external oiling, even found a couple instances where windage with the 4.5 stroke and a conventional center sump pan was bad enough engines would start to lose oil pressure above 5000 rpm.

I'll check under the car again tomorrow, but the C body has surprisingly little room around the oil pan and oil pump, standard pans that work on B/E's end up getting hit by the steering linkage and the subframe is bigger than the k-frame on a normal unibody Mopar.

The 540, 2.2 journal, 1/2" pickup sounds like the most straightforward and safest combo to build but it also is a struggle to not go bigger when it's a clean slate for parts!

Thinking I'll do the induction side in 2 stages. To get it running next year I can use the old school large bore 850 DP I have on my current motor, and put that on either a 440-2 or regular TF 4150 intake, port match it to the 270's, and use my cheater kit that's limited to 250 hp. Honestly that alone should get it to bottom 10's.

Stage 2 would be a proper 4500 intake, a new plate kit (great suggestion Tony!) so I could run 2 stages on 1 plate, and EFI. I can't bring myself to buy a new carburetor so that would be the perfect time to switch to EFI. Would do the Dominator sized Terminator X 4500, could use the Dominator to control the nitrous stages and provide the fuel enrichment, and also put a flex fuel sensor on it so it could run E85 too.

11.5 CR with a large enough cam should be ok for the 93 octane pump gas we have here. I don't care about idle quality at all, it has a 4500 rpm stall converter already with 4.10's, and there is a vacuum pump for the power brakes, so only real constraint for the cam is the lobes have to have milder ramps to keep from beating the valvetrain up on drag and drives.

Greg- thank you! Back in the mid 90's Nick Scavo had a black '65 Impala that used to run in all of the fastest street car classes, it still had a column shifter and bench seat. I thought it was the coolest thing ever, having a 4000# tank pulling wheelies back then.grabbing gears on the column. I know Tony did too with his Dart! It's fun building something different and comfy.

Thanks Chip - that's definitely where it's going to end up. laugh2 With a decent block and rotating assembly I'm not going to be afraid of putting the man jets in it!


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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