'68 Fury street/strip project thread - new goal of 10.0's

I've made a couple posts about my car already. It's a '68 Fury III (4500 pounds with me in it!!) that has an old school built 440 in it. Ported 906's, 30 over 6 pack pistons, LY rods, 590 mopar cam, TM7 intake, 850 Holley DP and 1 3/4" headers with 3.5" exhaust and flowmasters. I ran 12.40's with it last month and am going to try to get it to the track one more time this year before the season is up. I'm thinking I can maybe get another tenth or two out of it. It's also got an Ultimate converter that seems to flash around 4500, and 4.30 gears with 295 M/T drag radials. Have spent some time messing with timing and squirters, it runs pretty good at this point and at the track it hooked fine launching from 3000-ish, but it just has air shocks in the back so I assume I'm going to need caltracs and adjustable shocks if I put any more power to it.

The goal is to run 11.50's in any conditions, so probably 11.30's in good air. That needs a minimum of an 150 hp bump over where I'm at now. Whatever I do with it, I also want it to be reliable, as the goal is to run one of the drag and drive events next year. Drag Week, Midwest Drags, or Rocky Mountain Race Week.

The initial thought was to put a 200 hp plate kit on it, that should get it to where I need to be. I'll need to upgrade the fuel system, but other than that it might be ready to go. I worry a bit about durability with spraying it, but it should at least get me to the ET goal.

The other option is to spend some money on the motor and make that difference up n/a. I think the heads are the biggest restriction currently. Trick Flows look like there really is no ETA on them due to supply issues - every time I look on Summit's site the expected ship date keeps slipping. I think Indy 440 EZ's are available, but don't know if they would get me to where I need to be out of the box compared to the TF's.

The other concern is I'm not sure the small-ish headers, cam, and honestly the rotating assembly, is going to be ok to get a 446 to the 600 hp range without being suspect. I'm not an expert by any means but I'm thinking to get 600 hp out of an n/a stock displacement RB is going to require more rpm than the pistons and rods are safe to.

What are everyone's thoughts? Will a head swap get me there? Or do I really need to dive into the shortblock to get to where I need to be?

Thanks,
Nick

What's your best MPH and at what track and conditions, that will give a good idea on the HP you're making now, the 590 is a pretty good old school cam IMO.

It went 12.46 @ a little over 108 at Norwalk last month, I don't know what the DA was but it was a normal early fall midwest day, thinking low 60's for temp in the evening. The Wallace Racing calculators show between 440-460 hp based on the weight. The motor went 11.90's in a B body, 2 owners ago. It has a mechanical fan and power steering, which certainly isn't helping it.

I set the lash at 28/32 based on the original specs for the 590, and timing is at 38* with a Mr. Gasket light spring kit so it's pretty much all in at idle. I wanted to see if there was anything on the table with jetting but ran out of time, only got 2 runs in during a 5 hour T&T. Hoping for a few more and really wanted to see if jetting it up helped any.

Wow I had the same exact combination . But I had hyperutectic pistons . Any way my car ran 11.30’s and weighed 3500 , so honestly I think your running pretty well for what you have . I would have no problem spraying that combo . It won’t take 150 either . All your going to need is a .052 nitrous jet and I can almost guarantee your going to drop a second or more like nothing .

Get your self a Saturday night special plate and your set

I would buy a lighter, more modern rotating assembly, then update the heads. Even ported Eddies would have way more potential than what you have, they go over 300 easily with modest work.
Then if the above doesn't get you there, you are way better equipped to maybe spray a more modest amount( onto better parts) to reach your goal.
To me, a good shortblock is the foundation to any attempt to make even half way serious power.

Is there any way you can take some weight out of the car? 4500 lb takes a lot of power to go fast. Each 100 lb is good for a tenth...

Nothing wrong with the EZ heads. I bought through Fast [Porter Racing heads] and gained 6mph and 4 tenths by just a head swap over ported 906s. Minor bowl work back cut valves standard port. Same 590 cam as you. 446. As said b/4 eliminate weight.

My mate ran a 3150lb Dart to 10.1'@132 best with a 12.7:1 440 with LY rods I believe, had the .590 cam and MCH ported Eddy heads (320cfm), a Victor Intake and a 1050 Dom, just barely made the 600fwhp mark on Wallace with weight/mph. The block was well built in the US by the guy that raced it and he bought it over to the UK so I would think it had well prepped rods/bolts but who knows for sure. He used to turn near 6800rpm in the traps with it with his chassis combo. Lasted for approx 4 seasons here of hard racing before it blew.

So I personally don't think just a head swap would get you another 150hp with your in theory 10:1CR and that cam. I ran a similar motor to what you have in 1990 with 6pk rods/pistons, a Team G intake, 850DP, 2" f/well hdrs, ported BV 906's (260cfm) and a .650"/290@.050 SFT cam@around 9.8:1 and made 530fwhp according to Wallace for weight/mph. I turned that to 66>6700 in the traps NA and 7400 with a 175 b/shot N20 system,=660hp. I had a single external oiling system to handle the rpm. Pistons are no problem, its the rod bolts you may have that are the weak link as we know.

I think if TF heads or similar 300+cfm heads were about then apart from B1's which I couldn't afford to pull the motor and replace everything I could've got close to around 570>580hp at that low CR mainly cos of the cam. I would go with a 150 shot and see where you end up you would in theory be pulling 63>6400rpm max in the traps with your parts. So unless you want to pull the motor and go through it completely with ally heads and more comp NA that 600 no. ain't gonna happen the way I see it in reality.......my 2c's.

Sell the complete long block, build a 50X” with good heads.

Or...... spray it.

The thing the spray does besides the extra HP........ is you also get a giant boost in TQ, that you won’t get by hopping up the stock stroke engine by traditional means.
With the normal NA mods, you’ll get a little boost in TQ, but the big HP gains will be made by extending the upper part of the power curve(carry the TQ to a higher rpm).

Thanks guys!

Definitely agree the shortblock could use an upgrade. I worry that it'll turn into a "might as well" situation, if I'm buying pistons and rods I may as well toss a stroker crank in there too. I did have the pan off a couple months ago and checked a couple rod bearings, it looked great inside, so I'm struggling to take it apart since it's a perfectly good running motor. Maybe I start buying rotating stuff now and then if I ever hurt a piston or something it gets a full rebuild.

I will have to look for spots to take weight out of it, it's a street car but I should be able to do something. Nobody makes fiberglass parts for Furies and the hood is ridiculously heavy. It has discs now but has power brakes, along with an accumulator and a vacuum pump to run them. I could ditch some weight there if I find a manual brake setup, and maybe switch it to manual steering. The subframe on C bodies looks really beefy too, not sure if I can take a holesaw to it, or maybe some interior panels or something. I did plan on pulling the hvac box. It also has 2 layers of carpet so I'll pull one of those out.

4 tenths and 6 mph from swapping to EZ's on a 446 makes sense and is encouraging but also highlights I'm definitely not going to get to 11.50's with just the head swap. Maybe I go that route and try to get some weight out of it, that'll put it into the high 11's at least, and then make up the difference with spray?

EZ's have stock plug location and exhaust ports, right? If they've got similar potential to Trick Flows, and they're available now, that might be a winner. What kind of rpm are you turning with them and the 590 cam, carnut?

Edit: 2 more responses since I started typing. Thank you. That matched my gut feeling, getting to 11.50's at the cars weight likely isn't happening without changing the rotating assembly. Or spraying it.

Dumb question, but if they're the weak link, can rod bolts be changed without getting the rods remachined, or is that asking for trouble?

First thing I would look at is weight. Its free hp. What you have in the motor, every thing is very heavy. Were the heads ported using MP porting templates? Those pistons weigh a ton and probably about 9;1 comp. and the 590 MP cam sucks. But weight is your biggest problem and cheapest to solve. I had a 70' Challenger I did a full chassis on got the weight down to 2450 built a 451 low deck. Ported 906 heads with MP templates. Don't remember cam specs but was a solid roller with .625 lift and running LY rods. It ran 9.80 in Sacramento Cal. Not bragging, just an example of how much difference weight makes. If you're going to buy heads, don't waste your money unless you go with Trick Flow. If rebuilding bottom end think lighter pistons, forged and better rods. Scat makes a nice 4340 I beam rod. If your crank is a stock forged item, it will take the horse power. Just be patient and think things through. One more thought, a lighter car is much easier on your engine and transmission. Best of luck to you and your changes, and don't be afraid to ask anyone for advice.

Thanks again. The torque should help it with the car being so heavy too, so that really says it either needs some nitrous or a stroker kit. The power I'd need to get there n/a at 446" likely needs a rotating assembly that will handle more rpm than what mine is safe to.

The heads were ported in the 80's I believe and have a bunch of work done to them, they supposedly flow 263 cfm.

I only want to buy things once, so maybe a plate kit for now and then start saving up to build a completely new longblock with a 505/512 with Trick Flows or EZ's.

150 shot would put you comfortably in the 11's. Cheapest easiest route from where you're currently at.

Put it in a 1000# lighter car.

As mentioned already don't start spending yet get a plan then go hog wild. Good luck whichever direction you go

Thanks, definitely still in the planning stages, and agree- definitely only want to buy stuff once. For now I think a small plate kit is the winner, it will get me to where I want to be and shouldn't hurt anything... except maybe the trans or rearend. lol

I love the car too much to try going fast with something else.

My Charger went from consistent 12:50's @ 110 MPH, to inconsestent mid 11's @ 120 MPH with a new engine making 100+ more power. That is at Bandimere, like 9,000 ft DA in the summer.
The Charger is 4150 lbs, but a street car. It needs adjustible shocks and suspension work, and likely more tire than the 10.5x27" drag radials.
The extra power has reduced the no so great 60' times from about 1.7 to 1.8+

I shift at 6500. 391 gears 5200 convertor. A body. EZs are angle plug stock port location. Mine flow from 295@ 500 to 323@700. With more potential by opening to larger ports.

I know there are NO2 cars on drag week, but I'd think it would be a pain to keep up with bottle supply all week. Of course a full out turbo/supercharger deal that needs ice every one is a pain too. But would a 'simple' supercharger and air to air intercooler be an option? Obv it costs more than the bottle.

I've still got your 4.15 crank and the EZ heads sitting over here.
I do plan to use them in the Charger at some point though.

Thanks everybody. 451, it definitely sounds like you could benefit from more tire and some suspension work. 120 mph is hauling!

I've definitely considered other power adders. If I win the lotto, or at the very least get out of other hobbies, turboing it would be a stretch goal. But...I can't fabricate a project like that and I'd want to do it right (multiport efi, e85, turbo friendly cam, rear gear and converter, rollbar, trans brake etc), and at that point the goal would be 9.50's instead of 11.50's. lol

I do remember Monte (rip) used to fill everybody's nitrous bottles on drag week. I don't know if any other vendors do that now on the drag and drive events, but I also would expect that 2 bottles would last a whole event, with only a pass or two per day.

Nitrous will get you there if that is all you want. I will go against the grain and say get the heads you need to support the number/power you want. They will still be there and not a bottleneck if you do a serious shortblock later.

Holley was filling bottles still. I meant more in the rush of trying to decide if you need to make another pass or waiting FOREVER for your turn depending on how many oil downs there are it would be harder to manage. I imagine, as I've never had a bottle.

I built the turbo setup for my fury in my house garage, I'm sure you could do it!

Why not buy some heads that will work on a 500" stroker, but put them on the current 440, and let it run what it runs. If it isn't enough for you, build another stroker shortblock while you spray the old one.

"I worry that it'll turn into a "might as well" situation, if I'm buying pistons and rods I may as well toss a stroker crank in there too."

If we can assume around a 60 CI increase for a cost of between $700 and $950 for a typical stroker crank, then a guy would just need
to decide if 60CI is really worth it for this application. It kind of seems like a bargain

"Dumb question, but if they're the weak link, can rod bolts be changed without getting the rods remachined, or is that asking for trouble?"

It's kind of a bad idea. I did that in the late '80s to the mule 440/still together in the Polara. The reason I got away with it was....back then, Mancini was selling
production/I believe SPS rod bolts in bulk, without the direct connection blister packaging. I ended up with exactly the same bolt as stock, but new.
I don't think I would attempt this today with an ARP 8740 etc without having the rods resized....and by then you're about halfway to some middle of the road
aftermarket rods.

Maybe I am showing a tendency to repeat past mistakes, but to me the easy/fun approach is enjoy it the way it is
for now and start working on the next combination. Then when the new big bad engine is done, if everything goes well you will end up with a spare 440 to either use, sell, part out, etc.

Maybe I missed it but did anyone ask about the current converter? That's the first thing I would change.....depending on what's in it.

There's gotta be 3-400 pounds that can come out without cutting it up? I do like the car/style too but, it's really gonna take some HP to move that weight AND the weight is hard on parts. After it's as light as you can practically make it, the next best question would be how to make 5-600 streetable HP in a stock block B/RB engine. That's probably easier than cutting the weight.

clearly the answer is a 200 shot. Build engine later lol.

my coronet is like 3900 its been 1150 in good air mild 440

You need to get some weight out of the car. As mentioned, if you can get Aluminum heads I'd go for it, add a newer cam design, call and have one custom ground for you car. What are you shifting at right now? You might have too much gear.

Have you tried tighter lash? I would start by going 18 and 22 and see if the car likes it. If it doesn't like it reset the intakes and see if it just needs more on the exhaust side. What is the cam in at? Very heavy car might want the cam advanced. I would definately look for some better aluminum heads, and try and set the motor up for the max compression you want to buy fuel for.
Look for ways to lighten the car. A disc brake conversion will drop 35 lb I believe, plus it should stop better.

Very good point about changing the front end and brake components to lighter stuff. What front spindle does a c body use in those years? IIRC the rotor is thicker than a b body.

I agree that building a better/bigger short block should be on the list. If you played your cards right and bought parts off season, took advantage of sales etc. you can screw together a 15-20k engine for 10-12k. That would be starting from scratch; new water pump housing etc. You could save a few thousand reusing some of the 440 parts if needed. Whatever you do it will need a decent fuel system so maybe think of starting there.

Experiment with lash settings
Converter - I would think there are some local members that could help you out there. Is that a J converter?
Fuel system
Nitrous Kit
New engine on the cheap (accomplished by way of 50% off sales, PB&J for lunch in 2022, and brewing your own beer)

That seems easy enough : D

Thanks everybody. Lots of confirmations of what I already figured but didn't want to admit, lol.

I don't think I'm going to touch the shortblock now, especially if changing rod bolts without getting the rods resized is a bad idea. I'll just keep this motor together as is and start planning a new build, but in the meantime put a small plate kit on it to get me to where I'd like it to run. Think I'm going the Jeremiah and MoparBilly route of just y-ing the fuel solenoid off the main feed and tossing a regulator on the nitrous supply side.

Will start collecting parts for a 50x" stroker, and it seems like the Trick Flows are the way to go for heads at the 600-700 hp power level. Once they're available I'll pick up a set. Beyond that it sounds like stock blocks are suspect anyway.

The converter in the car is a 9.5" Ultimate. It flashes to ~4500 from what I've seen. The rear tires on it are just under 30" tall, to me it doesn't seem over-geared. I'm well under 6k crossing the finish line and I'm shifting a little over 6k. It sorta feels like it noses over past 6k regardless of gear. I have a 1" open spacer I want to try and also was going to go up and down with jetting the next time I get it to the track.

I do not know where the cam was installed, but I am guessing it was already advanced a couple degrees. I can ask the old owner.

I haven't considered tightening up the lash at all- can definitely experiment with that. I figured I'd just put it where the cam card suggested and run it, but will try tighter for sure.

I have put Wilwoods on the front of it already, I did that before Roadkill Nights. I can try to maybe swap the booster and vacuum pump + reservoir out for a manual brake setup but will need to find a manual brake C body to get the parts from. It has 2 layers of carpet in it, will pull one of those out along with the HVAC box. It doesn't have tailpipes. I'll have to start looking for brackets and things that can be removed or have holes drilled into, but also not be obvious about it.

Thanks,
Nick

Unless I missed it, what kind of rear end do you have? If it's hooking with all that weight, plus you'll be adding HP, you're going to start finding the weakest links in your drivetrain. You said you have Wilwood brakes, but are they rated over 4000 lbs? I've seen other companies with limits on theirs.

It's an 8 3/4 with Moser axles, and I also upgraded to a 3.5" Dynotech driveshaft with 1350 u-joints over the summer. I suspect the ring and pinion might be the next to go, at which point it'll either get an aftermarket 9" or a Dana 60. It will definitely be the next weak link in the drivetrain. I know at this weight and HP it is marginal, especially on radials. For the brakes, Wilwood didn't have a weight specification and it's a kit designed for C bodies. I have a set of '73 C body disc spindles I could've used but I can't find caliper brackets.

The trans is a 727 with a Cheetah reverse manual valve body (no low band apply) that I shift on the column. I don't ever get off and back on the gas in 1st gear, and also know if I break the rearend I'll have to pull the trans to check the sprag.

About a .660 lift roller cam

FWIW, several 'mild' engines we've had in cars that we took to a bunch of T&T sessions always seemed to like spacers. I had just a magnum 383 in my Coronet at one point and I had 2" of spacer on top of a torker intake and that was faster and if I had had any more spacers and longer bolts I still think it wanted more. It's cheap to experiment with. I whittled 1.25 seconds off the ET on that combo doing little stuff like that - biggest thing I did to it was put the torker on vs the OEM HP intake.

It shocked me just how much difference there is b/t a stock style intake and a decent aftermarket one on even a mild motor. Years ago I was trying to sort out some fitment issues and swapped an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake for a MP M1 dual plane (an aluminum version of the factory HP intake). That motor was neutered after that swap! Completely done before 5k rpm. It was just a flattop 440 w/ 906s and a 509 cam.
Sorry...I know this doesn't help the OP. Just made me think of it when I read the previous post.

I just swapped a Holley SD in place of the DP4B on my 68 GTS and it made a noticable difference in the top end. Thanks to Mr. Porter for that recommendation; I didn't realize how short that and a torker were compared to the RPM. Plenum volume is king above 5k RPM from what I am learning.

As a word of caution with the spacers make sure that the one you place on using is big enough for the throttle blades on your carb to clear. I have seen a few bent butterflies from guys not checking and just hopping in and smashing the pedal to the floor.

You should post more picture of that thing for us. I didn't realize (or forgot) it had that tall of a tire on it.

Also, I'd start looking around for a rear end housing too Again, something you car slowly put together on a budget. With the superstock theme of the car it would be awesome to have a Dana with a chrome cover sticking out underneath.

Speaking of updates, we need some current pics on your car too mister!

It currently has a TM7 for an intake on it right now. It feels super strong from ~3500 to around 6k. I'm hoping adding some spacer will pick up the upper end some, it starts to feel flat above 6 and the cam should be good to 6500. Is there any danger in home porting the intake to give it more volume? I'm definitely not afraid of a die grinder and have lots of carbides, but also don't know where I should be grinding. lol

It definitely sits high in the rear but some of it is due to tire clearance. I might have to remake the wheelhouses to get it to sit lower without rubbing with the 295's on it, or maybe go down to a 275. I love how it looks now though. Agree, it would be sweet with a chrome cover on a Dana 60 out back!

When I was trying to decide between the 295's or 315's I picked the 315's because they are shorter and a little wider, I drive a 67 B-Body and space is limited on those cars. In case you wanted a different tire to drop the back some

Figure I'd update this. I got a deal on a plate kit so I installed that over the winter, and also picked up an AEM wideband, an MSD timing retard box, and a NOS mini progressive controller. It shouldn't need the controller but I figured it can't hurt if I ever do pour your own puddle/no prep type racing with it. Going to be super conservative on timing, have the box configured to pull 8* out when the nitrous is activated, it's all automated through the progressive.

Right now the fuel side is teed off the carter mechanical pump. I know MoparBilly and others used to run plate kits on a ton of 440's with that Carter pump, we'll see how this goes. I'm going to be watching the wideband like a hawk and if it is running out of fuel on the top end I'll swap over to a dedicated fuel supply for the nitrous but for now I'll try it as is. I'm going to stick to 73 jets as the highest, really don't want to put a rollbar in the car and honestly I'm not sure the trans will live with it if it goes much faster than mid 11's either.

Excited for Milan to finally open!

More pics:

Nice! I know someone else that put the solenoids in that area...

A JAZ 1 gallon Jr. Dragster fuel cell and a small 5 psi electric pump make for a cheap supplemental if you are so inclined.

Nice, I like it!

Cool beans! Any preliminary test hits on the street yet?

Thanks guys!

GY3, I definitely copied the idea from you, although if I remember right you also painted your solenoids engine color so it's even less obvious! I like how it's semi-concealed, somebody just glancing at it won't see that it obviously has nitrous. The progressive screen is on a spare switch blank plate that I can swap in and out, so it can be hidden in the ashtray, and the arm switch is under the dash and behind the wideband so it isn't noticeable when you look in the car. That is a great idea for a secondary fuel system too, I can probably fit it up by the battery in the massive front fender if needed.

Rich- not yet. I just have to put the colder plugs in it, the bottle is filled and I've tested everything, but I wanted to at least get a timeslip out of it if I'm going to risk hurting the rearend or trans, lol.

Edit: the fuel line looped over the top of the upper radiator hose drives me nuts, but I haven't found a C body upper hose yet that is higher so I could route the fuel line underneath it. If the motor ever has to come out I'm going to ceramic coat the headers and repaint it too.

You could move the outlet on the rad to the center or use straight hose sections and metal elbows to make the hose pass further forward of the engine.

11's in a C will make you large and in charge.

Kevin

It’s got a crossflow radiator in it already so I can’t move the inlet to the center but that’s a great idea on pipe and couplers, thanks!

I’ll be happy with an 11 anything out of it for sure!

Eager to hear how it runs on NOS.

My plan, a few years back, was to just break into the 10's with a baby 150 shot. It surprised the heck out ofme when it ran a 10.69 on a really hot Summer night

Thanks guys. I'd be ecstatic if I could jet it up and get it into the high 10's, but think it would need a supplemental fuel system for the nitrous and probably a converter swap to do it. It's also still running around on a stock blown out bench seat and original lap belts so it isn't exactly the safest idea to make it much quicker.

If it runs better than I expect maybe I'll take the plunge and put a rollbar in it.

A buddy had a 67 mustang with a mild 428 ran 12.20s. He put a 250 shot Comp-U-car on it, wow 10.57 3 times n a row, never heard it shift just one loud roar down the track. I raced it a few times using it just in third. I blew the engine after a solenoid stuck while dry hopping behind the line. Engine died so after shutting the bottle off and cranking over for 30 seconds figgered it was cleared. Wrong, pow, bent rod, cracked block and head, blew out the head gasket and jacked the head bolts. Won’t use that stuff again!!

Look at you all grown up and not immediately cashing the first bottle out on the street!

I always test on the street first so I don't oil down the track! ...in front of a crowd.

Ok, since you guys both called me out for being old and lame, the wideband bungs are going in this weekend and it will get a couple 2nd and 3rd gear hits on the street first before heading to the track.

Needs a 572...

I approve of this message.

I cringe to think about what AFR numbers I might have ran on my old 360 when it had nitrous. It seems in our 20s my friends and I got a free pass on nitrous for awhile. Way to much nitrous on way to much pump gas lol.

I don't have aluminum block 572 money! But... if I ever hurt this one I will build a TF headed 512 stroker for sure.



I know Monte always said that timing is what kills them so I am hopefully OK with the timing retard box set to 8*, but... I really want to monitor it to see how close the tune is on the fuel side, especially running it off the mechanical Carter pump with no regulator, lol

How much were you spraying on your old 360?

It saw 225 for awhile on 91 octane...yikes! It was just junk thrown together to have something to race. It ran 12.90s NA and it was way out of gear on the nitrous.

Quick update on this one. I ran it at Roadkill Nights a couple weekends ago, it did great there and I did spray it for 2 of those passes but I had a mild ramp in the progressive, and it also was on the street so I didn't get any times.

I drove it the 40 miles to Milan Dragway last night and got 3 passes in. 1st all motor pass was a 12.58 @ 107, the air was much worse (3000' DA, 80+ degrees out) than when I ran a 12.46 at Norwalk last year, so I was happy the car was performing like usual. Tried to make a nitrous pass for my second one. Purge worked, but the WOT switch didn't make contact and it slowed down to a 12.64. Whoops!

Third pass, we fixed the WOT switch, and I was rewarded with a 11.37 @ 118.5!!! Straight up stoked it picked up 1.2 seconds with a 180 shot, I wasn't expecting it to run that well, I was going to be happy with an 11.80 or better due to the weather conditions, and I think I startled the timeslip lady when she handed it over.

I was watching the wideband in the car and it was not going lean going through the traps, so that gives me hope that the mechanical pump is keeping up with the fuel demand, and I have some margin to jet it up just a smidge more.

Now I'm already thinking about what I can do to get just one 10.9x timeslip out of it. Figure that's plenty quick for no rollbar, stock lap belts, a column shifter, and 4300 pounds!!

nice work, cool car

NICE ! Congrats

So happy you hit that goal.....AND almost exceeded it !!

By the looks of that mph and 60foot , there is plenty left in it

What was the wideband reading??

Looks like that nitrous bug got you now

Thanks Jerry!



Totally hooked!!! Thank you so much for the advice both here and in PM's, and the congrats. I couldn't be happier with it, although I'll say that again when I get it in the 10's, lol

It's so heavy I think it still needs more gear to get off the line. I might step down to a 275 pro to shorten the final drive up some and help it out. It didn't really spin and I don't have a trans brake so I'm not sure how I can get it to launch any harder besides giving it more gear ratio or swapping the converter.

I have the wideband reading in lambda so it was 0.80-0.82 when I looked at it at in 3rd, so 12.05-ish to 1 air fuel. I was so happy I packed up and didn't bother to check plugs after the pass, but I did at Roadkill Nights after a nitrous pass and they looked great, the timing mark was about where it needed to be. I ran Roadkill on straight 93.

Timing is 38* on motor, and then I had the timing retard pull 9* when the nitrous is activated. It's got a 73 jet in the plate and to be safe I ran it on a 50/50 mix of 93 and 100. I'm guessing I could've pulled a degree or two less timing on the race gas and it would've still been ok.

Nicely done! Congrats!!

Nice job Nick! Looks like the car lost some weight behind the steering wheel.

Remember to approach your tuning in baby steps, easy to get greedy and hurt it

Optimize what you have before going to a bigger jet, then you know what A/F and timing the engine likes so you close when going to a larger jet

First thing i would look at is the AF, 12.0 is a tad rich im sure. Leave the timing low and lean it out 1/2lb at a time ( Induction Solutions has flow gauge on sale right now) Or just reduce the fuel jet .02 or so at a time
Once you get the AF good , what to look for, drop in fuel and it picks up MPH, you went the right way
Once the AF is good, add a .5 degree or 1.0 degree at a time, Again if it picks up...its good, if not go back. Check a plug or two, at least look for heat on the straps. On a BB mopar no heat is good, or just on the edge of the strap thats it
you will be surprised how much these two things will pick the car up, i bet you can go over 120mph.
As far as that 60 foot....have you been purging before a pass?? IF not you will see a big difference for sure. Even if you bang it through the engine it will help a lot.


Happy ET hunting

Nice job, congratulations!

Excellent! Congrats, Nick! Car looks cool, and would hurt some feelings as a legit street car LOL

That's awesome!

Sweet!

10's are just around the corner!

Its a slippery slope!

Your hook now
Congrats on reaching your goal

Nice tuning tips.

Always sneak up on it. If you knew what AFR it liked best on motor, likely it will be very close to those numbers on juice.

Have fun!

Thank you Tony! I need to print this off and paste it in my track toolbox as a reminder how to not hurt it. This is great info, especially about the timing. It makes total sense to not bother advancing it if it doesn't pick up any mph.

I did purge before that pass. I was originally going to just bang it through the motor but with how the mini progressive is set up I would've had to add a few diodes to the circuit I wired in, and figured it was easier to just put a purge solenoid on it. I drilled out the antenna and ran the line through the antenna hole.

Thinking about the launch further, I could've left a little further up against the converter. I was only at 2500 or so when I left, my car is heavy enough it probably will benefit from it. I have the nitrous set up on a window switch from 3500 to 6500 plus the WOT switch, so it shouldn't be a big deal if I get it to 3500 footbraking.

I've watched the video of my car a few times and I'm thinking I need to ditch my air shocks for sure as well, I don't think they're controlling the rear well enough.

Thanks to you guys I have a few things to try next time out, and I hope I can get a couple more tenths and 1-2 more mph out of it without upping the nitrous jet yet.

Jeff - it's just a good angle, lol. It would pick up 1.5 tenths just with you driving it, but I think your head would explode at my shifter setup!

Wes, thank you, really appreciate that. I've put about a thousand miles on it this year. It's just a fun car to cruise, and I'm having even more fun with it now that it's getting to be decently quick.

I really hope 10's are just around the corner!

That's awesome!!!

Saw you on the live feed!

Hell yeah! That car is so cool! Sounds good too!

3.5" pipes, 2 chamber Flowmasters, and no tailpipes. Not terribly classic of a sound but I love it.... and my neighbors do not. lol




Next year I'm definitely going to try spraying it out of the hole out there, the road was surprisingly good. They missed my one good, close run against an early Nova. I lined up against Jim for all of the others, and his Charger made it look like the Fury still had a 318 in it... especially with my naps for reaction times.

Maybe try leaving closer to idle to hit the converter. Just thought.

Slow the video down to .25x speed and watch how the car reacts when leaving.

Seems a bit travel limited up front.

Super happy for ya! You are the man

Thanks Rich!!



Thanks, I definitely have some things to try now in addition to the nitrous tuneup. I've watched the video a bunch and agree it seems to run out of front travel quickly, and once the front suspension tops out the car porpoises. I don't feel that on motor but did feel it on the nitrous pass, each porpoise it felt like it unloaded the rear and tried to spin.

The torsion bars are jacked up a little in the front, mostly for oil pan clearance with all of the street driving I do. I'll have to see if I can put a smaller bump stop on it to help with the extension. It also has air shocks in the rear, those need to go as well. It has a snubber which is adjusted pretty close to the floor.

I think chassis wise next outing I'll try leaving from both a lower and higher rpm to see if it likes either of those any better. I also can try lowering the front so it has more available droop, and also letting the air out of the air shocks. I have clamps on the front of the leaf springs on both sides, I'm surprised how violent it looks after watching it slowed down, it's hitting the tire hard which from what I understand is good for a radial.

I've had multiple people tell me to not waste money on the cheaper drag valved shocks, and Vikings are the only adjustable fronts, so I think if I do anything I'll do it all - fronts, rears, caltracs and possibly their monoleafs, but only if I can't get what's on it to work.

My biggest concern, if it loads and unloads a bunch in 1st gear that it will hurt the sprag in the trans, the valve body doesn't have low band apply.

My old S/P car had single adjustable steel Koni coil overs on the frontend with A arms, I switch them to a set of Afco 36-way double adjustable aluminum coil overs and it help that car 60 Ft better and react quicker once I got them adjusted to what that car needed: work:
I agree on getting rid of the air shocks and better front shocks, you will maybe have fun tuning them and go quicker with better reaction times

Love your car mate, I too have a 68ht, to give your self options, it may be worth considering customising the front shock mount in the stub frame, i haven't tried too hard to find adjustable shocks, but its looking like im going to have down load some catalogues with specs. The C Body front shocks are very short, 8" compressed - 12.25 extended. What the hell the factory was thinking I have no idea (space no doubt).

If anyone has some suggestions, brands or part numbers, im all ears

I assume you have scaled the car? Hows your front to rear percentages? I've seen numerous different weights listed for various C's, real life and random spec sheets. The fury is meant to be the lightest, kinda worried cause mine has AC and a similar trim level to yours plus a 9 on the under body deadening section on my build sheet lols.

The real world weight loss thread on here is a gold mine of info, after the usual low hanging fruit the one that stands out to me with the C is our bolt sizes are generally a "size up" compared to A-B's, so lighter, or drilled bolts through much of the non stressed items will be pretty worth while.

Thanks Cab! Agree, it seems like a worthwhile investment, and I would expect the car would react a little quicker with better shocks. It moves around sloppily like a no prep car, it just doesn't have the front end travel to match, lol

Alchemi, thank you! Yep- the short front shock is definitely a problem. The rear is common with B bodies so anything you want is available. I've looked all over for adjustable shocks for the front. You can get KYB's, Gabriels, and Monroes for non-adjustable. AFCO and Viking show that they offer an adjustable front shock for the 65-up Furies, but the AFCO one looks to be the same part number as the B body front shock so I don't think that will work, it's 16" long instead of 12". The Viking front has a specific part number for the Fury, it's B2002 for their double adjustable but still street oriented shock, and look to be $200 apiece. They also have the B3002 which is the race oriented valving and those are $275 per shock.

I will give them a call to see what they recommend for my car. Your idea of modifying the upper shock mount is a good one too, I need to look at it further but there has to be a way to get a longer shock and have some more travel up there.

I did scale my car last year, before I put the nitrous kit on it (so figure another ~15 pounds of stuff), and I also weigh between 285-300 depending on how many cheeseburgers I've had that week.

3/4 tank, without me, 4027 pounds:

LF: 1085
RF: 1072
LR: 951
RR: 919

3/4 tank, with me: 4330 pounds:

LF: 1194
RF: 1113
LR: 1089
RR: 934

53.8% front, 46.2% rear.


I haven't done anything for weight reduction yet. I can pull the HVAC box out, none of it works anyway. It has 2 layers of carpet, I could remove one of those easily. I also have a manual brake pedal assembly for it that I haven't installed yet, that would get rid of the booster, a vacuum canister, and a vacuum pump that is installed to run the power brakes. Beyond that I think I'd need to start drilling holes and removing bolts. Maybe a lightweight battery too. And go on slimfast, lol

Bumping this up just to keep track of progress more than anything. Goal is get into Roadkill nights again, run 11.50's turned down at Drag Week if I get in, and to run solidly in the 10's by the end of this year.

Since this thread I picked up Viking shocks for all 4 corners, Crusader valving for the rear, B body Caltracs, Calvert stock height split monoleafs, AREngineering front spring hangers and new shackles. Have new Firm Feel tubular UCA's on the way but they haven't arrived yet, will replace LCA bushings, the UCA's, and install the front Vikings all at the same time.

I installed the Caltracs/split monos yesterday since it was almost 60* outside. Have to recheck pinion angle, and also come up with some type of spacer for the lower shock mount as the grommets on the Vikings are smaller than OEM so they have 1/4" of lateral movement on the shock mount. Hoping that ditching the air shocks and worn out springs pick the 60' up a little. From there I want to spend more time tuning the nitrous, there should be some gains there.

If I can sell one of my motorcycles, I am going to swap the heads for Trick Flows, step up to 1 7/8" TTI headers, and redo the exhaust too so it's quieter for extended freeway cruising, but I'll put cutouts on it since whatever it gets replaced with won't flow as well as what's currently on the car.

The stock rods are a risk so I'm going to be more cautious and not run it much past 6000 rpm though. Eventual goal is a 512 stroker and then it'll get good internals but that's 2-3 years down the road. The other risk is the 8 3/4, we'll see if it lasts the season!

Wow, big upgrades! I love this car!

One little thing I might add: Get the shocks as close to vertical as possible. We relocated the upper mounts out towards the framerail.

I agree, worth the effort.

Thanks, appreciate it!!

I cut down the sleeves for the shocks yesterday so they are in correctly now. It also looks like the pinion angle is 2* nose up compared to the trans so I have 4* shims coming from Calvert, then the rearend should be done.

Would I need a different length shock if they get remounted vertically? The C channel they're attached to looks pretty easy to modify. Have been meaning to make a set of subframe connectors and patch the wheelhouses anyway, moving the shocks shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Keep an eye on the stock spring perches. The caltracs put way more load on them and they can start to roll over. If you have a welder or fab buddy it would be easy to reburn the factory welds and add some gussets. Calver also makes some real nice perches that are reinforced.

What mufflers are those that are on there?

That explains the "HD perches" option on Quick Performance rearends and the boxed option on the perches for the Strange S60, I had no idea those were needed but it makes sense now. Thanks! I have a welder, while it won't be pretty I should at least be able to reinforce it a little.

Mufflers are 3.5" 40 series Flowmasters. I love how it sounds, but the hearing loss I've had over the last couple years is saying it should be quieted down some, lol. If I get into Drag Week and don't have a chance to put tailpipes on it I'll toss another set of mufflers on the end for the street drives.

Looking good, Nick!
I'll have to swing by again some day and go for a ride.

Maybe road trip the Imperial?

Great work!

I'm in the same boat with exhaust + years of playing onstage next to hard hitting drummers haven't helped too much.

I went ahead and used my old Calverts and they don't bottom out. I gave Viking the dimensions for the new shocks. Then again, I didn't mount them totally vertical, either.

I know some drag week guys run 3.5" Ultraflows and they claim they are fine on the road.

I run 3" Ultraflows with turndowns in front of the rear axle and they are pretty quiet going down the road but have very little restriction.

The only problem I've had is the drivers side likes to crack where they stamped "Dynomax" in them. Drill stopped and welded and they seem to be fine.

Thanks guys!

Feets, you should come up for the Dream Cruise when your Imperial is back together!

Rich, totally. Work tracks my hearing as part of my CDL test and it took a significant dive in the last 2 years, from better than most to below average. I need to stop that trajectory. You're always playing next to a loud rhythm section too.

GY3, thanks for the exhaust and shock info. Sounds like I can at least stand them up a little further without worrying about bottoming them out but I'll have to measure.

Clark, those would definitely be the quick and dirty backup plan if I don't have time or $$$ to put a full TTI system on it.

For now I'm waiting on the new UCA's, LCA bushings, and the pinion angle shims should be here tomorrow. Another problem just popped up, one of the rear wheel cylinders has sprung a leak. Easy fix but the tires are super difficult to get off the car, the rearend is just a smidge too wide and the wheel lip hits the drum trying to get the tire in past the quarter. Without the air shocks on it and fully extended I have to deflate the tires and ratchet strap them to get them past the quarter. Debating one of the $600 rear disc kits that should give the tire/wheel a little more clearance compared to the drum. It never stops, lol

Nice work! I may have some pieces to help you build a decent motor or two...

I enjoy your car and watching your progress racing. I had a 68 Sport Fury with a 383 330 hp that I did a lot of work on to race, reminds me of that car. If you are going 11s with that beast, I would forget about spending $600 on brakes and start looking for a Dana. Would be a shame to break the diff and all the other problems it can cause. Thanks for the posts!

Very cool build. Proof it doesn't have to be an A,B or E body to be a bad ass street car.

493_john, I really appreciate that. Thank you!



Thank you. I've had a '67 Imperial and '68 300 in addition to the Fury, just seem to gravitate towards the big and oddball cars. The Sport Furies are cooler for sure!

Good point on the Dana. I should replace the 8 3/4 before it breaks and then also rolls the sprag in the trans. It has aftermarket Moser axles, and the converter hits pretty soft, but it's gotta be on borrowed time at this weight and power level.

neat car 8 3/4 still hanging in there ?

Thread update! Weather was not crappy today, got the Firm Feel UCA's installed along with the Viking Warrior front shocks, so now the suspension is completely done! Just need to get it aligned.

Thanks to rickraw's Summit discount codes, I have a set of Trick Flow 270's on the way, ETA is sometime in June, and Wilwood rear discs to match my fronts have shown up already. I don't trust the 8 3/4 if I go any quicker and don't want to have to pull the trans every time I break it, so the plan is to order a Strange S60 this week. Was considering a 9" but the snout is about an inch shorter than an 8 3/4, so I'd need another new driveshaft, instead of my existing one getting shortened. At that point the Dana is cheaper. Planning on 35 spline axles, 4.10's instead of my current 4.30's, a truetrac, and about 1/2" narrower, so hopefully between the rear being narrower and the discs, the wheels will be easy to get on and off the car again.

I'm debating if I'm going to bolt the heads right to this shortblock. It runs great right now, doesn't have any blowby, and everything works together well. My concern is with better heads it's going to want to rev to the moon, and it still has stock weight TRW 2355's in it so I'm worried the LY rods are going to yeet themselves if I rev it much past 6500.

Option 1 is use the 270's on the 446 shortblock and run that for a couple years until my wallet recovers. I need to buy new rockers anyway, could pick up some 1.6 instead of 1.5 Harland Sharps to get the lift up to 0.630-ish, and leave everything else the same (850 DP Holley, TM7 intake, MP cam, 1 3/4" headers), and try to keep the engine speed below 6500 to reduce stress on the rods. Guessing it would pick up 4-ish tenths from the head/rocker swap, and then I could jet the nitrous up a little further which should get me solidly into the 10's.

Option 2 is to leave it as is this year, then over the winter pull it and put a lightweight 512 stroker rotating assembly in it, with main studs, new caps, fresh machinework, etc. It would also get the heads, a roller cam, MW sized intake, and I'd upgrade the headers to the 1 7/8" TTI's. It's only money, right? Lol

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick

Nothing the matter with the existing short block. Just keep the revs down. Don't get greedy.
Doug

you want the manual steering box in it before you bother aligning it, don't you?

On those rear willwoods be sure to account for the rotor had thickness in your overall width. My set the hats are 1/2" thick so it adds 1" to the WMS width. Just about screwed myself on that one, my tires fit within 1/4" and that would have been an expensive redo.

New plan sounds good, faster never hurt anyone lol.

Thanks Doug! That's what I'm thinking for now too. Then if the shortblock ever gets hurt, then swap out the rotating assembly. Maybe 6k for shift points and then make sure it doesn't go above 6500 in 3rd.

Jeremy- definitely. I should be cruising through around easter. I also saw some tie rods that needed attention and the idler arm could use replacing too, I should do all of that at once! I assume it's gonna take at least a month for the rear to show up anyway so I have time.

Clark- thank you for the heads up. I should pull the brake kit out of the box and measure, that would've been a bad deal. My tires are as close as yours and I was hoping to get a smidge more clearance, without having them tucked in too far. A half inch out from where they are now would wreck everything, lol

Nice updates. I'd almost leave the motor alone and spray it where you want it. But again I'd definitely find weight loss because I'm sure there's a couple tenths to be had easy. And that weight stays off...

I’m in a similar boat as you, and i’m putting the 270s on my built 446 short block (forged pistons & scat rods). The guides in my stealth heads are shot though. I bought 240s last year, then sold them for 270s. Ive had an Eddy Super Victor with MW ports on backorder since May. It JUST shipped. Summit has 4 more in stock, I’d buy one now if you can swing it.

I was just gonna run my intake for now until it came in if the intake didn’t show up before the head swap. You’d be .594 before lash if you go to 1.6 rockers. I’m only .520 with 1.5s, might go to 1.6s later. I wish I had a little more lift but I’m happy with my cam and don’t want to risk breaking in another FT, and don’t want a solid roller.

Its not going to rev to the moon with the 270s in my opinion, it will just make alot more power upstsirs. You don’t HAVE to keep revving it, but I know its hard not to!

All of the potential plans sound pretty good!

Only one tiny advantage I can think of, if you were to bolt the new heads on the existing 440 you could then sell the 906s for probably 350-500 to water the money tree a little.

But then they wouldn't be available as spares anymore, if you figure you might ever need spares....so maybe not.

Sean - I definitely think it could use some weight loss! I was planning on switching to manual steering (especially if I put the aluminum heads on it to get 40 pounds off the front!), and was probably going to switch to manual brakes with an aluminum master which would get rid of the booster, my vacuum pump, and vacuum canister. Beyond that I'm struggling for ideas though, it already has an aluminum radiator and 4 wheel discs. I could maybe pull half of the bumper brackets off? Or start drilling holes in inconspicuous places. If somebody made a fiberglass hood I'd buy it in a second, the original has to weigh 100 pounds!

GTX Matt- thanks for the heads up on the intake. I was hoping to keep my 4150 based carb and nitrous plate kit but if there is a ton of performance to be had by switching it I'd consider it! After reading Andy's articles on his 470, comparing the 240 to 270, the 270's seemed like a no brainer. Engine Masters did the same test, the 270's were better everywhere.

I think the 0.590 cam has 0.393 lobe lift, which should be 0.628 before lash with a 1.6 rocker. I might be doing the math wrong though?

Rich- yeah, that's an enticing idea! If I pull them off and they aren't cracked I could sell the heads, pushrods and HS rockers as a package deal for sure.

Are you open to the idea of Kirkey seats, ditching the rear seat, maybe an aluminum fuel cell....would knock a few lbs off.

My bet is if it need tie rods or an idler arm, it probably needs bushings all around. I have a press if you need to press them in or out.
Doug

My mistake, I thought you were running the 557, you got it right!

And I’m not sure in the 4150 vs 4500 carb being a gain, but enginemasters ran an XP 4150 which is dual pattern. I’m still figuring out how I will run a 4150 on the intake (which adaptor), but if you’re going to eventually go stroker I would think a 4500 will help you.

I’m not sure that the extra plenum volume on the Super Victor didn’t help EngineMasters tests, and I’m scared to run the Indy 440 2D.

493 John- I like the bench seat but I like the idea of getting weight out of it that way. I need to start looking at what can be cut out in terms of brackets and stuff.... especially for the backseat. Nobody sits in it!

Doug, thank you for the offer. I may take you up on that. It drives fine and I didn't notice any play in the front end, but I did buy LCA bushings just in case. Looking at them, they're intact... just dry. I've also never had torsion bars out of a Mopar front end before so am a bit gunshy to do them, lol

GTX Matt- yeah, honestly it's overcammed for what it is now but with more compression and substantially better heads it should do better. The converter is loose enough that it can take advantage of it. That's a good point on the intake too, a 512 would benefit for sure from a 4500 sized flange.

I had always wanted to gut a back seat and only keep as much framework as necessary to keep it's shape then stuff a couple of blow up pool floats to make it look like everything was still in there, same with a passenger side bucket seat .

a 7/16 wrench can make a LOT of power on a nitrous deal.......

Seems like I've heard this before?!

More jet and a go pro...send it.

Dvw makes a good point concerning the front end. You should do heim joint strut rods and greasable LCA pins if it gets town down that far.

Perhaps some rear air shocks for the bitchin stance?

Ok, minor change of plans. I was on the waitlist for Sick Summer and was accepted this morning, so barring any catastrophes I’m doing my first drag and drive this June!

The car won’t be legal past 11.50 so I’m going to leave the motor alone, and jet it down a little to slow it down to 11.60’s.

In the meantime I need to get cracking on the rearend purchase so the rest of the car is bulletproof.

That's cool, glad you got in.

Awesome! I've always wanted to do a drag and drive but just can't take off that long.

Cool beans!

Cool to hear. Nice to see some other Mopars in the drag and drives. However, we all have to work more to be able to afford these damn cars.....

Thanks, I'm super excited! I wasn't expecting to have a deadline for this season so things have ramped up substantially.

Sold my Road King about a week ago, and almost all of that $$$ went to parts for the Fury. Ordered the Strange S60 from Dr. Diff over the weekend. Ordered a headers-back TTI exhaust system, Plymouth exhaust tips, and Hooker Aerochamber mufflers, so it'll have a full 3" system with tailpipes that should help quiet it down some for the drives. Also bought a spare starter, alternator, spare pushrods, 2 spare rocker arms for what's currently on the engine, and then almost everything to do the cylinder head swap (head gaskets, full Harland Sharp rockers for E heads/Trick Flows, TF intake that I'll have to blend some for the MW 270's, valley plate, head bolts, Comp 928 springs to match the cam, etc).

It is looking grim for the heads to show up in time for the event, but that shouldn't be a problem, I'll just install those over the winter when I'm done with it for the season.

Also bought billet Motion Raceworks cupholders, a small bluetooth Kenwood amp, and dash and 6x9 speakers. It's going the wrong way with weight with the full exhaust and stereo, but if I have to spend 6 hours a day in it driving I had to prioritize tunes!

The rearend should hopefully get here by the 1st week of May, will toss that in immediately with the Wilwoods, bend up some brake lines, then will need to get the driveshaft cut down/rebalanced. Have a new speedo gear on the way from Brewers too.

Last stretch goal will be to patch the large cuts in the outer wheelhouses that were previously made for tire clearance. I might try that myself or see if I can find a local fabricator that could do it in a week or two. It doesn't have to be pretty, I just don't want a monsoon getting into the trunk. lol

What speakers did you buy? I recently put a sound system back in my car after years of no music and its so much better. Alpine S series sound really good for a cheaper/entry level speaker, my 6x9s really crank out the lows well just off of an old Kenwood receiver. I mounted 2 4s to a custom plate in the dash.

Nothing fancy, just some 3 way JBL club 6x9's. For the front I saw the plates that adapt two 4" speakers to the 4x10 dash hole and I totally would've gone that route, except the Fury's main dash trim piece comes very close to the original 4x10 speaker on the left side, and if there was a larger magnet I'd have to cut the dash bezel. The twin 4's have to sound so much better than the 4x10!

I went with this amp Kenwood and figured I can make a little bracket for the controller that will hide behind the billet cupholders I purchased, lol

If I can hear any tunes over the exhaust I'll be happy enough with it.

Sounds like my TTI order shipped so I can get started on the exhaust install this week. Diff is likely another 7 weeks out though.

Right-on! Cool that you got in. Keep grinding!!!

Thank you!! I'll be in a holding pattern soon until the rearend shows up, but that should only be a weekend's worth of work or so, plus the time to get the driveshaft cut down.

So far I've got the *incredibly important* billet cupholders and stereo installed. The TTI exhaust showed up yesterday, should be able to install that this weekend. My Trick Flow 270's also surprisingly showed up last week but I'm still waiting on the valley plate and intake, I won't install those until after Sick Summer.

Moving right along!

Man, I need cup holders!

On an aluminum bracket that mounted the stereo volume control and slides with the seat!

I'm guessing between the extra weight of the exhaust, the dana, and the swap from 4.30's to 4.10's, it's going to slow down at least a tenth on motor. Like Tony said, nothing the 7/16 wrench can't fix. lol

If i were you...i'd consider throwing on the 270's and run the car that way this year!

It's a definite possibility!! I'm close to having all of the parts to do the head swap, just waiting on the regular Trick Flow intake, and I'd need to order pushrods. If nothing else shows up this month I may do the head swap out of boredom until Strange finishes the S60!

I test fit the TTI exhaust today and I'm unfortunately on the fence about it. Their systems for all of the other Mopars put the tailpipes in the right spot, these end up lower than a normal setup and the tips look pretty bad when installed because of the 3" gap to the bumper. The passenger side tailpipe was also grounding out on the shock crossmember, I could fix it with a couple solid whacks from a hammer though. Tailpipes seem like the right choice for a drag and drive car, but I may punt on this for now and just go with plan B of earplugs.

Nice progress man!

Thing is going to be humming with 4.10s. Thought of cruising on a 30" tire and racing on a 28"?

That's a tough situation with the tailpipes. Could a section be cut out and welded up to tuck them in better?

Block of wood, and a floor jack.

Thanks guys! I have 295/65/15 ET Street SS's on it now, they're a little over 30". With my current 4.30's it's at about 3500 rpm at 70, and the 4.10's should bring it down to a nice relaxing 3300! A gear vendors would reduce that further to ~2750 at 70, which is right where the engine/cam has cleaned up enough and it's happy. A gear vendors is a stretch goal for sure but for now I'll just drive it slow.

I eventually want a set of 28's to do some of the daily driver, back of the track races at Milan, but until I swap the rearend, the tall tires are too difficult to get on and off to swap them frequently. The wheel lips are trimmed and the tires still have to be deflated and ratchet strapped to get out from under the car. Between the narrower rearend and discs that should be much easier soon though.

The tailpipes are a bummer for sure. There is at least an inch that could be squished out of the hanger but then they'll hit the shock crossmember even harder. Could maybe pie cut it past the hanger to get them to angle up closer to the bumper? I'm also worried now that the midpipe puts the mufflers too close to the driveshaft as it wasn't designed for a larger than stock driveshaft.

This is from another TTI c body install video, not my car but it's identical under there.

3" tailpipes pretty much fit like garbage on my Fury as well, I've never put the turndowns on and they took work to clear everything.

The exhaust looks killer........thing just keeps getting better and looking cooler by the month LOL! I enjoy watching the progress!!

Thanks Wes! I'm just using this thread as a project update at this point.



After I ordered the exhaust, one of my other friends indicated the same thing, he had to have a shop fix the 3" TTI exhaust on his '68 300, it fit like garbage out of the box. If the mufflers clear my driveshaft I'll take it to an exhaust shop to get the tailpipes tucked up a little further.

Also, for the manual steering box, I might be able to pick it up this weekend. I'll text you later. I'll also be in Chicago hopefully in a few weeks to pick up the rearend and could stop by your house then too!

we're around this weekend if it works for you!

Have you tried popping off the bottom of the shock to get the tires off?
It's a pretty common move on Fusey cars with big tires.

Nick,

Its been a few weeks!!! Anymore updates to that STREET BRAWLER?!??!!

Hah!! Thanks... no noteworthy updates, besides stopping by Jeremy's to pick up the van/C body manual steering box.

I did a mini vacation last week to help my uncle with a 1958 Chrysler 300D he is restoring, then did some motorcycling in NC. Back home until Sick Summer now. My TTI headers showed up yesterday so I can start final installing the exhaust, and likely won't put the exhaust tips on until I can have a shop tuck the tailpipes up a little so it looks better.

Rearend should be done at Strange any week now, they accepted the order on 3/8 and said 8-10 weeks for lead time. Once it's done I'll make a quick day trip out to Chicago to pick it up. Then just need to bolt the Wilwoods on, bend up some brake lines, and get the driveshaft cut down.

Update!! Got word the rearend was done, drove out to Chicago and picked it up yesterday. Now I've got some work to do...

Looks nice Nick!

Thats a great start.
Doug

Looks great!

Wow, that was quick!

Thanks guys!

Quick question- are there any major drawbacks to running hard brake lines direct to the calipers on a fixed caliper system? The Wilwood brakes have the calipers fixed, and the calipers don't need to be removed to change pads, so the only time the calipers would ever need to be removed is if I needed to pull the axles. I could do a short section of flex line on each side but am not sure where to secure them to. There are little tabs on the housing but don't think they're designed to hold the weight of a flex line and fitting.

I did flex lines and just welded a little tab to the axle, but yours is already pretty and painted. I see no reason why you couldn't do a hardline. You could also make a tab that is captured by one of the T bolts that holds the bearing in if you thought you needed a flex line.

I hope this makes sense, run your hardline on the floor of the body. then mount a tab to hold a bulkhead fitting above each side of the rearend near the frame rail. Run your flex line down to the caliper from that point. Makes it a lot more convenient to NOT have brake lines on the rear housing. Easier to tie it down for towing etc. AND the one time you need to service the caliper, you will wish it had a flex line on it....

Where was this post in 2018 when I put a Dana in my car? Great idea.

That is a great idea! I'll have to see where the lines will end up on the car. And agree- I would just weld little tabs on the axle but I don't want to jack up the powdercoat.

Hell yeah!!!! That's a nice piece, Nick! Right-on!

X2 Good choice to upgrade the axle if you're still wanting to add power to this chassis!

Right now I’m hoping to make it bulletproof for drag and drive events. I have less than a month until Sick Summer and need to get it drivable again asap!

Thinking the goal next year will be getting the Trick Flows installed, and then 2025 will be a 512 kit and beefing up the trans. The chassis should be as far as I can go with a stock suspension C body at this point.

The car is at the alignment shop currently but I did get the Wilwoods on yesterday. I do appreciate the irony of doubling the value of the car with a rearend install.

I should probably ask to have this thread moved to the projects forum since I'm mostly using it as an update thread instead of advice anymore, but more excitement has shown up!

The long story is I dropped it off at a shop just to get it aligned after the new UCA's and steering parts. They put it on the alignment rack, and the balljoints were smoked. Figured it was already there so I had them order balljoints, and wanted to get the UCA bushings done at the same time since it was already apart. After one round of the wrong balljoints showing up, they got the right ones yesterday and they went to do them, the LCA bushings, and the alignment all at the same time. At this point everything in the front end should be new.

But wait, they got the driver's side apart and the LCA is cracked at the bushing! I had no idea this was so common on C-bodies. Have a good used one showing up, should see it on Monday and then can get the driver's side back together, the alignment done and back home.... so I can start on the axle swap. lol

Getting close on time and I'm starting to worry. I'll have just a little more than 2 weeks to swap axles, get the driveshaft to CCI to get them to shorten it, bleed the brakes, reglue the trunk seal, change the fluids, nut and bolt check the car, and get the nitrous bottle filled along with jetting it down. It needs a couple shakedown drives too, it hasn't really been driven on the road at all this year (but was solid all last year, thankfully). I also haven't made a pass with the Caltracs yet so might be testing that on Sunday before Sick Summer.

Going to punt on doing the TTI exhaust, and plan B will be earplugs.

I totally understand now why so many cars show up unprepared to these events.

I was at the same point with my 65 Fury front end a few years back.
Redid entire front end and new torsion bars and Wilwood discs.
I wish I had just done a front end swap, like maybe a Crown Vic, for header/oil pan clearance, disc brakes. and ease of maintenance.
Love the progress you've made and your car!!

Thanks, I appreciate it. You aren't kidding- the front end on these is so weird and it would've made sense to replace with something more modern. Unusually short shocks and poor oil pan clearance. And some of the parts are very difficult to find used, plus not available at all new.

Do have some updates since last week. Got the car back after the new lower balljoints, new LCA bushings, the new to me driver’s side LCA, and a fresh alignment. It drives so much better now, I wasn't expecting the difference. Drove it to work on Thursday and got on it a few times, everything else seems ok and the new suspension has made it feel safer for sure.

I started the Dana swap yesterday and it's in the car now. Totally relieved, it being slightly narrower and with discs instead of drums, I can get the wheels on and off the car again without having to unbolt anything else!

Going to drop the driveshaft off first thing tomorrow to get shortened. Hoping to have a friend come over today to help bleed the brakes. I also am going to swap the speedo gear and attempt to hook up a new set of parking brake cables. Beyond that, it just needs an oil change, gluing on a fresh trunk weatherseal, and a quick nut and bolt check, and it's ready to go for Sick Summer.

Nothing sexier than a Dana 60 peeking out from under that big booty!

Damn that car is cool!

can't wait to hear what it can do !

keep up the good work

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. The current motor is not really capable of hurting the 8 3/4 but I wanted to build it from the drivetrain and suspension up, after breaking so many parts on my Charger. Zippy was there one of the times it spit out an 8 3/4, lol. Can also pride myself that it's likely one of less than a dozen C bodies in the world that ever ended up with a Dana 60 in it.

Huge shoutout to CCI here in Detroit. I dropped my driveshaft off to get shortened at 6:40 on Monday morning and had a call by 11:15 that it was finished. Doug recommended them a few years ago and they will definitely get all of my driveshaft business in the future.

Swapped the speedo pinion and parking brake cables over the weekend. Hoping it moves under its own power with the Dana tomorrow, which gives me over a week's worth of shakedown time on it before leaving for Cordova on Saturday the 3rd.

green 69 Fury runs at Cedar Falls, ran 25yrs ago and then I saw it again 2-3yrs ago at Mopar Maxx, it's got a Dana I think. It's a little rough around the edges race car vibe, not unlike your charger before it got pretty and became our charger

That's cool! I wonder if it'll ever surface again. There are a couple really fast 65/66 Furies too. They've gotta be the lightest of all the C's.

Drove it tonight after buttoning the last of it up, and it feels great. Brakes work well, the 4.10's make it a little more pleasant on the freeway, and I like the truetrac.

Only minor issue is the speedo is way out in left field now and I don't understand why. According to the chart for a 30" tall tire it should've had a 38 tooth gear for the 4.30's, and a 36 tooth gear for the 4.10's. I put a 36 in it and it's easily 15% off now. What came out of it was actually a 43 tooth gear, which doesn't make sense, but the speedometer was correct with the 43 and 4.30's.

Based on the error percentage it should be back to correct with a 41 so I'll pick up one of those and toss it in.

On the home stretch now, only minor stuff to do and it's definitely a relief.

Great news, glad it is all working smoothly.

Now for the not so great news, I think the pinion bearing may be smoked.

I screwed up and didn’t put enough gear oil in it for the LPW cover. It had 2 quarts and really needed a little more than 3. I have been super gentle on it during the break in period and would drive it 20-30 miles at a time then let it cool down. The oil smelled fine when I checked yesterday, and I refilled to the correct amount today, but it’s doing this weird binding on turns now only on power, has a high speed vibration, and the pinion seal is leaking. I have maybe 200 miles on it.

Going to pull the cover tomorrow to see if anything looks to be exposed to excessive heat, the wear pattern, and also check to see if there is any vertical/horizontal play in the pinion. I had worked through everything on my list the car needed by Saturday night, thought it was 100% ready, and am really kicking myself for this one.

I've had new clutch type posi units do what your describing with regular non synthetic posi gear oil and the sperm whale additives
Even making the out side wheel and tire jump and hop on tight turns
Continue to drive it after getting the pinion seal sealed up so it doesn't leak

Short runs and light load using only 2 qts shouldn't have hurt anything.
Doug

What type of differential does it have? It might be just tight and causing the tires to drag in the corners.

Thanks guys- I worry about the worst and am very doom and gloom, lol.

Doug, you're right. The rearend feels perfect with everything in the air, no slop, no runout, and no vertical/horizontal play in the pinion at all. Backlash is ok, no signs of heat either. It definitely leaked a bit from the pinion seal but was dry this morning after I wiped it off yesterday.

Clark and Cab- It has a helical style Strange s-trac in it, have driven the Eaton version in other street cars and it typically doesn't bind up like this. It's perfect launching in a straight line and is unlocked like I'd expect at light throttle. I did a bunch of tight turns in both directions in parking lots at various throttle positions and it feels fine, the diff itself is ok.

Investigating further, it only happens on off camber, tight left turns. Looking at the tire clearance, it appears to be touching the wheel lips in those maneuvers and that's what I was feeling in the car. There are fresh rubber marks on the front edge of the wheel lip and a corresponding mark on the tire. It used to not touch there but the combination of new springs, the slightly taller perch to tube distance with the dana, and the angle shims tilting the diff forward some have reduced the wheel clearance to the point where it must hit if the body rolls enough.

For the vibration, this is the first time I've had it above 75 mph with the pinion angle shims. I checked angle again, it's now at -4.3* compared to the trans. Calvert suggested anywhere from -2 to -4, I am going to change the shims from 4* to 2* to see if the vibration gets better. Beyond that I'm out of ideas. It felt OK under power but 90 mph coasting or lighter loads it vibrates and I think that is indicating driveline angles. I'll also check the trans mount.

Have one more Summit order showing up on Wednesday, including the shims, a new pinion seal, nut and washer, plus backup ignition parts. Really hope reducing the pinion angle fixes it!

I had the same thing with to much down angle on the driveshaft to the rear end, especially when I let off the throttle

Hopefully last update!

Swapped the pinion angle shims to the 2* ones. The high speed vibration is better. Not gone completely but good enough, and honestly I might be oversensitive to it since I've changed so much on it. I've also never driven a car with solid spring eye bushings before, and the exhaust is also solid mounted with no isolators. lol

The pinion has stopped leaking as well.

Drove it to work today, have put about 300 miles on it since the axle swap. Will do one final nut and bolt check tomorrow, then it gets loaded on a U-haul trailer and towed out to Cordova on Saturday!

The Sick the Magazine people asked me about the car out of the blue a few weeks ago. I gave the editor some info, and then a few days later he asked for some pics. I didn't think much of it, but this morning a short article popped up about the car. Definitely a nice way to build excitement for the event!

Fury article

I won't be able to tell stories like Jeff, MoparBilly or Joel, but if the experience turns out well I'll definitely write something up when I get back. Then once all this is over I'll finally bolt the Trick Flow heads on, the exhaust, up the nitrous jetting, and get this thing in the 10's, which was the original intent of this thread.

I'll text you, interested in the driving path. I was hoping I might be able to go to Earlville on the 8th as the Charger is back there right now, great photo op, but very unlikely. Maybe meet up with you along the way somewhere with my Fury since it's out here now.
I'm going to be in Indy with my boy fri/sat, maybe we'll see you on I-80 in the Cat

Have you driven it loaded down yet? In the A body arrangement the cal tracks push the pinion angle down and that gives my car a vibration. I swap on air shocks on the road to counter this, it also makes the car ride pretty good. My A body barracuda is very nice on the road if you take out the noise and heat factor, you sir are in the lap of luxury! Have a great time!

Appreciate it! Not fully loaded yet, but I always drive it with a single plastic tub worth of tools and spare parts after my fiasco getting to Roadkill Nights in 2021. I have probably 75 pounds more of stuff to put in it, plus another passenger. Will try to give that a shot today, I need to figure out what tools I'm bringing and where it's all going to fit in the trunk. Luggage will just get tossed in the backseat but I think 3 plastic tubs are going to fit in the trunk, along with the jack and nitrous bottle. The trunk is larger than most of the small trailers that people are towing!

Having a fastback is pretty nice, great storage horrible access. However you can't get to the stuff very well so it has to be packed in priority, you can see all of it though!

Congrats , it is great to get some ink about our passion . Awesome car & progress . Gary

On the road and I caught him in Chicago

Good luck for the event!!

Thanks guys! And great to see you again Jeremy!

Made it through tech, and also drove it 70 miles to and from dinner yesterday. It’s ready and I’m excited for the week.

Give 'em Hell, Nick!

Safe travels, and low ET's Nick!

To Quote the great Mopar Billy, when discussing about writing a Drag Week story: " Jeff, never let the truth get in the way of a good story." LOL! He was the best at it...

Day 1 is in the books, ate dinner and am at the hotel. I was worried limiting rpm to 6k, the extra weight of the dana, and the gear swap from 4.30’s to 4.10’s, plus pulling the timing back to 35* for running pump gas only would slow it down on motor but it went 12.51 @ 108 in the heat of the day today (0.05 off it’s best n/a pass at Norwalk in killer weather) and it’s doing well on the road. I am never doing another one without putting tailpipes and quieter mufflers on it though, lol

The vibe of these events is so cool. I expected the racers would be friendly but the towns we’ve driven through so far treat us like celebrities. It’s nuts, and I understand why this is so addicting.

Will probably spray it on day 3 at GLD.

I had flowmaster 10's dumping before the axle at one point on my fury, was pretty abusive on long drives

Glad it performed well on day 1!

Cool! Would love to do one of these but just not in the cards right now.

Have fun!

Really quick update: rained out yesterday, but went a new best of 12.40 @ 108.5 on motor at GLD this morning!
Off to Iowa now.

You are going to Love Earlville Nick... All concrete, and downhill...

That sounds like a properly well done dragstrip!! I can’t wait.

I’ll also say the crowd at Great Lakes was just incredible. By 10am those stands were full and I felt like a celebrity driving back up the return road.

Tri-State is a good track! And the owners are good people! Good luck Nick!

Great lakes is awesome, this picture is my Dad and I driving in wondering if all these people have jobs or not lol. Massive crowd at 8am on a Wednesday.

we had some pop up showers in Chicagoland, I wouldn't have guessed it rained out Byron, bummer.

This is what it looked like from inside the car at Great Lakes with Clark we could not believe it.

Like he said, 8:00 on a Wednesday morning!

My son's both took a vacation day on Wednesday and left at 4am to get to GLD @ 730. They said it was awesome!

Very quick update, I finished and turned in my 12.47 all motor pass and am making nitrous passes now! The caltracs and monos are working really well. The extent of the wrenching for the whole week was tightening two valve cover bolts. Lol

Congratulations!


Just finishing is a huge accomplishment.

Alright, bringing this back up! *wall of text incoming*

I didn't get into Roadkill Nights this year and was honestly a bit salty about it, lol. Have definitely been bitten by the drag and drive bug though, and also have ambitions of not being in the slowest run group moving forward. Definitely want to do one of Tom Bailey's events again and/or Drag Week, depending on the tracks.

Have been reconsidering what direction I want the final goal of the car to be, and think I've come to the conclusion that it's time to take the plunge on a rollbar. It's already quicker than the safety equipment allows, and it's not the wisest thing to be attempting to run in the 10's @ 125+ on stock 55 year old lap belts. To be legal to 10.0 it would need the rollbar, harnesses, an SFI damper, an SFI flexplate, and a trans shield. That seems doable and worth the investment. However, if it gets a rollbar, I'm going to want to get as close to 10 flat as possible. The suspension, tires and axle should already be capable. Whatever direction it goes I'll upgrade the trans and fuel system.

Using the typical Wallace Racing calculators for the Fury's weight, plus adding in another 10% of losses for a less than optimal street/strip engine install, means it would need to make a bit over 900 hp to get there.

Am totally willing to live with a ridiculous cam, the 4.10 gears and a 4500 rpm stall converter, but a 440 with a head swap is not going to get there safely, no matter how much I spray it. As long as the cam has gentle ramps so it can survive drag and drives, I'm ok with lots of overlap and degraded idle quality.

Spent some time measuring, based on hood clearance and the available parts for the car, the tallest/largest intake I can run is the 4150 based Trick Flow RB intake- could at least port match this to the Trick Flow 270 opening, and possibly have Wilson hog out the plenum as well. From what I understand, the 270 port size is a tiny bit less than a true max wedge intake port. Any of the usual single planes with a dominator won't fit once I put a nitrous plate underneath the carb and also try to fit an air filter on it. It won't fit the Indy 440-3X, and it won't fit the 4500 version of the same TF intake either because of the increased height of the intake, a dominator itself, and the lack of drop base air cleaners for dominators. The TF 4150 intake would leave 1/2" of space between the scoop and the top of the air cleaner lid.

The other restriction is the 1 7/8" headers, with a 3" collector. There isn't anything bigger for a C body because the subframe puts the torsion bars in a weird spot compared to a B/E body. I would run it with cutouts as close as possible to the collectors though and open them up for any passes.

Have 2 trains of thought for the motor:

1: find a late 440 block with the thicker main webbing, and hope it sonic checks ok. Build a 505 or 512 with the TF270 heads I have now, a solid roller cam with bushed rollers, and either Molnar or Callies Compstar crank/rods + Mahle pistons. This should make a realistic 650-700 hp, and then can spray a 250 shot on my current plate kit to get it to the goal. My concern here is the stock block- have heard lots of horror stories about how the blocks won't live at that power level. On motor it would live, but add a 200 shot on top of that and I think it's on borrowed time. At the current usage, it likely would get 15 passes and about 1500 street miles per year. Will it last with the limited usage?

2: save up for another year or so and buy a Bill Mitchell aluminum RB block, build a 540 or 572 with similar Molnar or Callies components, custom pistons since Mahle doesn't have a 4.5 bore shelf piston, and top it with the same TF270's that have already been purchased. The block should at least live indefinitely at the 900-1000 hp level in this case, but am also concerned a 4150 based intake and 1 7/8" headers are too restrictive for a 572, regardless of how much it gets sprayed. I don't know if this can be compensated for by increasing exhaust duration and widening the LSA a little to make up for the exhaust. Since the heads aren't any different than what I'd put on the 512 I don't think the power would be substantially greater, it would just happen at a lower rpm and potentially be easier on parts.

Thoughts? Are those headers and a 4150 based intake/carb too much of a choke point for a 572? Will a 512 live with nitrous use? It really seems like a roll of the dice.

Just some lessons I have learned :

Build the biggest inches you can , it makes power and loves nitrous

Make it light , lighter is always faster

One option is to build a low deck engine. A low deck Mopar is still taller than a Chevy big block so it isn't really all that low of a deck but it will give you more room under the hood. If you are going to step up to a 540 or 572 with an aftermarket block you can build either one in an Indy block. At least take a look at the option and see what the cost would be. There is only a couple of Indy intakes for the low block so that is a limitation.

You might come to the conclusion that a custom hood will save you money in the long run. If the goal is 900 hp you'll need a lot good parts. Handicapping yourself with a flat hood makes the job a lot harder.

Other option is to supercharge your existing engine. A centrifugal blower can be hung off the front of the engine and then you can tune the power by changing the pulley ratio. That setup will fit under your hood and give you all the power you need. A front facing intake manifold with a big throttle body will clear a stock hood.

The headers are going to be an issue. You might end up needing custom 2 inch headers to make your power goals. 2 inch headers will support 900 hp but most people would go even larger.

"Big Tony' had custom 2.25" headers I think in his 71 Fury. It was an SR headed 440 of some undisclosed size back in the early 2000's. They can fit.
Looking at low deck and/or supercharger sound interesting to me. But I'm a fan of unending power adders...
Fiberglass nose?

I was concerned about the rod ratio and piston size in a low deck stroker, didn't realize that a conventional BBC has a lower deck height than a B block. That's good info. The Bill Mitchell and Callies blocks aren't available in low deck but that's great to know the Indy is. Thanks!

Even if I did a 540 or 572 I'd only expect it to make 700-ish with the smaller headers and a 4150 style intake, and then hope to spray 200-300 on top of that. It would be neutered on motor for sure. The only benefits I can see with that route is the block should live at the 900 hp level on nitrous forever. I don't think a stock block will.

Custom headers are definitely an option, but at that point I'd honestly consider going turbo instead. Nitrous I'd leave it carbureted, but if it got a procharger or a turbo I'd definitely bite the bullet and go EFI. There are too many advantages to it, especially if I had to buy a larger or different carburetor and new fuel pump anyway.

Thanks guys. And definitely need to work on getting weight out of the car...

Plenty of good suggestions here and a consistent theme I have to agree with in-general is there are a few imposed 'handicaps' that will make it difficult to achieve your goals. Unless you have a stupid-big budget you're really doing things the hard way. I don't want to discourage using this unique body style but weight is a killer of the trans. and ET. I'd consider doing a turbocharger and a t400 which will make some limitations like flat hoods and exhaust system easier to overcome. Might even be able to use a stock-block with that combo.

An extra hood from marketplace or wherever would probably be $100 or less when found, and then you could do whatever you pleased
and not really care.....cut a hole wherever needed and/or put the tallest scoop or bulge you can stand that will cover anything in the future.

Camera match the white or just paint the hood organisol black, maybe another $200-300 for materials, and then
you can do whatever you need to do. Maybe go first class and have it dipped to save labor stripping it.
Maybe chop some structure out of it for weight saving.

There are a few puzzles, and I feel hood clearance is the easiest puzzle to eliminate....create plenty of hood clearance (you have friends that can help), that will
accommodate whatever induction/nitrous plate (or go to a fogger/direct)/carb or throttle body bonnet
for a blower you want to use, and set yourself up for the future. If it ever goes back to stock then put the other hood on.

(and this is the downward spiral of how we end up with extra hoods laying around, and end up doing bodywork when we wanted to do an engine).

If you go low deck, then could have gone with raised exhaust port heads instead of standard, especially if going the custom header route, and will be limited to
about two indy intake manifolds. It's a good option, but is it practical? Don't know. Don't know how your headers would fit with low deck and standard exhaust port height.

Brainstorming, bench racing and spitballing is fun.

My vote is def option 2. 572 aluminum block.

I also vote for the spare hood with a scoop and using a real intake along with a 4500 carb.

900 on spray won’t be a problem.

Just a suggestion from the peanut gallery, but what about using v band clamps and flanges so you could remove the exhaust when at the track? Open headers and you added lightness cutouts work pretty good too tho

Thanks guys. This is definitely in the bench racing/planning stage right now, but figured it was a good time to toss it out there.

Sean, completely, totally agree with your points. This is 100% NOT the right vehicle for these goals, but it's the one I'm going to use. I'm in the midlife/nostalgia stage of my life right now, and my first mopar was a '67 Imperial that I drove in high school. I've always loved big cars, and this one I can say with certainty I'm keeping it forever. Just have to determine how much I can realistically spend and how much maintenance it will require. Turbo, + turbo 400 so I could use a decent size torque converter, and a trans with bulletproof internals would be the easiest method and also offer the most room to grow.

The car already has a '67 S/S hoodscoop on it. Looking online a couple places have offered a 1" taller version. If that was combined that with a 4500 sized throttle body (1.25" shorter than a Dominator), it would fit on an intake like the original B1 or the 440-3x if I stuck with an RB block, but would have to commit to fuel injection at that point.

If I stick with a 512, the ET goal should drop from 10.0 to something like 10.60 so it has a chance of living. And setting up the exhaust with v-bands sounds like a great idea too!

You could use a pretty much stock-rebuilt T400 for that. I'd consider a 'cheap' low-deck 451 with an aftermarket 3.75 crank and some BME 426 fueler rods. shelf piston etc

I dont know how i was doing it, but i used to go 9 teens pretty regularly with a stock block, stock crank .030 over (446) it had 440-1 unported heads. A solid roller and two plates stacked. The car was 3500lbs. So your goal is within reach.
dont get all wrapped up in how much HP you have, but also work on the total combination. LIGHTEN the car and make sure it works to use all the power you putting out. Build an engine thats upgrade-able in the future if that makes sense. Put a roll cage and use chromemoly, its lighter. Proglass windows all around, (they can roll up and down) Gut the doors and make sure anything you touch gets something trimmed off it to lighten it. You will be surprised how fast the ounces add up.
Of course you are using a unique body, but who cares it will always stand out because its different, but im sure it can get to 35-3600 and the engine doesnt know if its a 3600lb A body or a C body or B body. GOOD LUCK! ! !

HEMI Joel does this on his Coupe for Drag Week. I can have the full exhaust removed, or install in 5 minutes.

I think my Charger weighs more than the Fury



I like my cutouts, but every time I open em up @ the track, my first thought is how much faster would I be if I took the exhaust off

Subscribing for the inevitable...….

"Thoughts on what to change to run 8.50s"

The only way to know for sure is to try it and see
I did that on my old pump gas Duster that had a 3.0 inch system with a set of old type crimp Magnaflows 7.0x14. inch oval muffs mounted at the rear bumper at Madras (1/8 mile track) and it picked up from 7.01 to 6.99 ET and right at .2 MPH average on 5 runs increase with no other changes I'm thinking it was the weight that made that tiny bit of differences on that car

Here you go. This big Hemi with a hyd roller cam made 900+ hp. Some of their choices might not be right for you, but this is one way to go. Need a tall scoop though for the intake they used.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/gen-2-hemi-engine-900-hp-valley-performance/

Perfect, right up the road in Ionia too.

Write one check and be done!

Better yet!

https://nelsonracingengines.com/collections/hemi-mopar/products/nre-twin-turbo-mopar-hemi-572

Wouldn't a wrecked Hellcat motor pullout be cheaper and more reliable for a driver?

8.50's would require a 572 with twins or 3 kits, and it would need a rossler turbo 400 at that weight!

Thanks guys, and Tony- that's definitely inspiring. Especially if it's getting a rollbar, I need to start figuring out a way to cut weight out of it. I'm super impressed at the idea of a stock block, stock stroke 440 with stacked plate kits that lived. You know what you're doing with tuning!!

The Hemi idea is a turn key solution to big power, same with a hellcat swap, but the level of fab work required for either of those is realistically past what I'm willing to undertake. For now I'll start with redoing the interior and getting a rollbar in it, and then keep saving for another motor. While the interior is out for the rollbar install I'll see what can be removed from the doors, the hvac box, seat frames, etc.

Update: just bought one of the 4.500 bore Callies blocks when it was on sale, so it's time to build a mild 540, 557 or 572. I wanted to do a BMP aluminum block but for my use case I think cast iron made more sense. Any of them will get me to reliable 10.0's, so I just have to pick a stroke and get appropriate pistons, cam and related components. I want to use my TF270's, internal oiling, and keep it as maintenance free as possible as long as I keep the nitrous tune safe.

Edit: also worth mentioning, I got into Sick Summer again for 2024. I really need to get cracking on a rollbar!

That is a big step forward. If it was me I'd do a 4.50 x 4.25 with 7.10 long rods. You'll most likely need to buy custom pistons to get the compression correct for your application. The TF270 heads will work great with 540 cubic inches.
You could go 4.500 but then the internal oiling starts to get tricky. Typically a 4.250 stroke with 2.200 rod journals will clear normal street pans, pickups and windage trays.

Moving up!

Awesome! Now you can give it all the horsepowers!

Excellent choice although you're adding probably 100+ pounds. Now you have MANY options. At least a 4,25 crank! You'll be able to throw some duration at it too.

The plot thickens
Congrats!
Hell of an investment there in good ol' P5153843 (casting number)

Experience that may or may not help:
I blacksmithed an off the shelf 1/2" internal pickup to clear the Molnar rods on mine with 4.50 stroke, it did clear, but I hated it and felt pretty bad about it, so I went external pickup using the existing hole in the front of the block.

That hole in the front of the block is pretty convenient to run a single external pickup.

For internal only/no exceptions I'd either go directly to 4&1/4 or look into the less common 4&3/8 stroke which also might be OK.

Internal pickup tube could have been fully fabricated, or smaller size used.

Re: Smaller size---You know how the pickup adapter bolts on with two 1/4-20s...Back in the olden days they shipped a 3/8" npt with a
wedge block, maybe they still do and it'll work easier for you (worth a look because it would have an easier time clearing the rods than the 1/2" that I used, regardless of stroke or connecting rod type).

Came across a website with the prices frozen in 2008, for entertainment purposes:
https://moparsupercenter.com/mopar-...-iron-siamesed-bore-block-p5153860-.html

BIGGER THE BETTER

NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT

Thanks guys. I'd actually bought a standard bore '78 440 block last month that I initially planned on building and was going to accept the risk that I'd eventually crack it, but after adding up the machining costs to get that usable vs. buying this, it really seemed like spending the extra ~$4k difference upfront was worth it. Going to do it once and do it correctly, and now I won't have to worry about hurting the block just through fatigue. Time to upgrade the nitrous supply line from a -4 to a -6.

Great info Rich, thank you. I'll look to see what pickup adapter it comes with when it shows up. Sounds like a 540 and possibly a 557 would fall together no problem, but a 572 would need a 3/8" pickup instead of 1/2" and still might require clearancing.

Andy, your point is well taken as well. The 270's might be a little small for a 572 but should be perfect at 540". It's geared that with 12% converter slip, 7000 rpm is ~135 mph and that'll be the new goal for 1/4 mile mph.

-4 is for motorcycles and such!

I have a customers with 500+ inch engines running both TF270 and Indy EZ heads. Those engines make 850 to 870 hp with high compression and drag race roller cams. For a street engine with 10:1 compression and a street roller cam profile I think you could easily make 700 hp and probably close to 700 torque. The cam will be a key choice. You'll also need a good intake and a 1050 Dominator. I think the TF race intake with the MW ports and the 4500 flange is what I'd buy but the Edelbrock Super Victor is also a good choice. I've never run a Dominator on the street but I'd think it could be made to work on 540 inches. You could also go with a 4500 flange Holley Sniper. The big Sniper will work great on the street and it gives you the ability to control the timing with the computer as well as interface to a Digital Dash. All depends on which way you wan to go.

just some ideas
572 or bigger 7-900hp
E85
1 gal enrichment cell
NX billet crossbar plate -6 line 400? more hp
"good" nitrous controller

Blues, your project is something i would love to do, if i wasn't as deep into my dart . Making a big boat fly turns heads, is comfortable, and IMHO just flat cool . I am looking forward to eventual dyno results, and hope you can get a 10.00 time slip!
According to Wallace calcs, 780 to 820 actual hp will get it done. Maybe 700 motor, and a mild 150 shot?

The bigger the better, but will probably depend on what you're willing to do as far as oiling. A 700 hp 540+ inch motor is easy and will be really mild. A 150-200 plate on top of it will easily do what you want to do.
When you get bored w/ it...put in a real cam and more head work. Then put the man jets in it.

My sled isn't as heavy as your car, but could probably be used to somewhat gauge your combo off of.

The Pro Power NX plate is what we upgraded to last year and I've been happy with it so far. It is capable of 500 hp. We also run a dedicated small fuel cell and pump for the nitrous.

You're doing exactly what I would like to do in the next couple of years!

Spent the last couple days reading about 572" combos and it seems pretty universal at that point they need to go to external oiling, even found a couple instances where windage with the 4.5 stroke and a conventional center sump pan was bad enough engines would start to lose oil pressure above 5000 rpm.

I'll check under the car again tomorrow, but the C body has surprisingly little room around the oil pan and oil pump, standard pans that work on B/E's end up getting hit by the steering linkage and the subframe is bigger than the k-frame on a normal unibody Mopar.

The 540, 2.2 journal, 1/2" pickup sounds like the most straightforward and safest combo to build but it also is a struggle to not go bigger when it's a clean slate for parts!

Thinking I'll do the induction side in 2 stages. To get it running next year I can use the old school large bore 850 DP I have on my current motor, and put that on either a 440-2 or regular TF 4150 intake, port match it to the 270's, and use my cheater kit that's limited to 250 hp. Honestly that alone should get it to bottom 10's.

Stage 2 would be a proper 4500 intake, a new plate kit (great suggestion Tony!) so I could run 2 stages on 1 plate, and EFI. I can't bring myself to buy a new carburetor so that would be the perfect time to switch to EFI. Would do the Dominator sized Terminator X 4500, could use the Dominator to control the nitrous stages and provide the fuel enrichment, and also put a flex fuel sensor on it so it could run E85 too.

11.5 CR with a large enough cam should be ok for the 93 octane pump gas we have here. I don't care about idle quality at all, it has a 4500 rpm stall converter already with 4.10's, and there is a vacuum pump for the power brakes, so only real constraint for the cam is the lobes have to have milder ramps to keep from beating the valvetrain up on drag and drives.

Greg- thank you! Back in the mid 90's Nick Scavo had a black '65 Impala that used to run in all of the fastest street car classes, it still had a column shifter and bench seat. I thought it was the coolest thing ever, having a 4000# tank pulling wheelies back then.grabbing gears on the column. I know Tony did too with his Dart! It's fun building something different and comfy.

Thanks Chip - that's definitely where it's going to end up. With a decent block and rotating assembly I'm not going to be afraid of putting the man jets in it!

Sounds like a good plan. I'm working on a 63 1/2 Galaxie right now with a 427 side oiler that has been stroked to 482. It has dual throttle bodies on a tunnel port type intake. He wants to take all of his grand kids cruising next summer. We put cal tracs on it and four wheel disc brakes so it will be ready to handle the power. I think it will be fun watching some of these bigger cars go at it.

Aren’t the header options for C bodies pretty limited?

Are 2” with 3.5” collectors available?

TTi shows a 1 7/8 header for C body cars with a 3 inch collector. That would be a tad on the small size for a 540 inch engine. Probably cost some power on the top end.
https://www.ttiexhaust.com/TTiC6573-440178.htm

Unfortunately those are the biggest available- I have a set of the 1 7/8" x 3" headers waiting to go on the car, along with a full 3" exhaust and Hooker Aerochambers. I know they're on the small side for any stroker big block. The header adapters TTI included are also not great for airflow, they have some weird bends.

I can't fab headers myself but I am planning on cutting the collectors short before they neck down to 3", and then running 3.5" from the collectors to manual cutouts, and then 3" back from the cutouts to the rest of the exhaust. Can tell in this pic that the header adapters take 2 tight 90* bends on each side to get to the relief cutouts in the subframe.

Definitely brings up a good point that the TF270's are already on the small side and will peak at something like 5500 rpm on a 572, and then it's going to be choked a little further with 1 7/8" primaries. Think that's further indication it's best to keep it at 540-ish for displacement, that should move the powerband back up some.

Big Tony (Mixon) had custom 2 1/8 or 2 1/4" ones made for his 71 Fury by someone in Chicago for his SR headed 440 of unknown displacement....in 2001. That car was in a wreck, I wonder if those headers are still around. I'll try to ask around about them or who made them.

Thanks Jeremy, that would be a miracle if there was a set of large primary C body headers lying around in a garage someplace!

Edit: Dwayne, also found a thread where you tested 1 7/8" vs. 2" dyno headers on a 542 and the 1 7/8" were down 40 hp at 6000 rpm. That's significant and is definitely highlighting one of the compromises of using the available off the shelf TTI headers on this build.

Actually, the dyno headers are 2-2 1/8 x 4……..and the FW headers used in the car are 1-7/8 x 3.5

Peak to peak the power was:
718@6000hp Dyno
678@5900hp FW(-40)

At the top of the pull the power was:
686hp@6800 Dyno
637hp@6800 FW(-49)

The FW headers were big winners down below where the converter stalls……..up 57ft/lb @4000.
But peak TQ was slightly higher for the dyno headers.
677@4500 dyno
673@4500 FW

I’ll quantify this statement by stipulating; “on the dyno here”……..
I don’t think it’s going to be slam a dunk that you can make an “easy” 725hp………..with a TF headed 540, on pump gas, with a valvetrain/drag n drive friendly camshaft……..using 1-7/8” headers………especially if they have 3” collectors.

The motor that produced those numbers above was about 11.5cr and used prepped Indy EZ-1’s(about 340cfm), a 440-3 manifold and an 1150 Dominator carb.
Doing nothing but swapping the heads for TF270’s may or may not have gotten the power solidly over 700 while retaining the small headers.

On a car with full exhaust and mufflers the difference would probably be less. The big tube headers probably don't evacuate as well once the system has some back pressure in it.
For a big street engine it is probably best to just depend on the torque curve to move the car. Pick a cam that has good, or good enough, drivability, and the power will end up where it ends up.
We would use our 2 inch dyno headers for a build like this and I'd expect more than 700 hp unless the cam was super small. But there can be a lot of difference between a production car headers and a really good dyno header.

I agree that the proposed TF270/540 combo is an easy 700hp build………with the dyno 2 x 3.5 headers.

In my build above, I’d expect replacing the unported EZ’s with the TF270’s would add a little something to that 718hp number.

I suppose the cam timing could be played with a bit to compensate for the less than great exhaust system. I've never gone down that road very far, but I suppose someone has. The little bit I played with it seemed to be counter-intuitive. I assumed the cam would need more exhaust duration to make up for cast iron manifolds but the opposite appeared to be true. As far as I could tell, leaving the exhaust open too long just pushed more exhaust back into the cylinder. The best cam for my old manifold engine was a single pattern. The split pattern cams with more exhaust duration all had less torque. This was not a "perfect" test since I changed a lot of cam events at the same time, but it did make me think about it.

That's really helpful, thanks guys. Dwayne, after I found your post on the 542 I started to think 700 wouldn't be that trivial to make with these heads on a 540, and with the additional info on the combo you've definitely reinforced that- it's not going to perform better. My heads aren't appreciably better and the induction won't be any better either.

It should be nice, torquey, hopefully near 700 hp, and work well in a heavy car but is only going to run a little better on motor than how my car currently runs on spray, just need to prepare myself now so I'm not dissapointed in a year after spending the money and putting it in the car. Most of the benefit will be a rotating assembly and block that won't be on borrowed time if it gets a 250 shot sprayed through it all the time.

Is there any benefit to overcamming it some, and bumping the static compression up to something like 12:1, and trying to keep the dynamic CR at a value that's pump gas friendly? Or not worth the 1-2% power improvement? Imagine the tuning window gets a little smaller at that point.

That definitely seems counterintuitive, Andy. Searching Speedtalk and there are similar posts too, would've never guessed that single pattern is better. I've read that both nitrous use and restrictive exhausts favor wide LSA's but wasn't sure on patterns.

Going to order crank and rods soon, assume 6 bolt is ok, 8 bolt isn't needed at this power level.

700 hp on the dyno with dyno headers won't be a problem with that engine but I don't know how much RWHP once the engine is in the car. I don't think I'd increase the compression much over 10:1 unless you have access to av gas or are willing to buy race gas and mix fuels. The pump gas compression ratio won't get in the way of making 700 hp with those heads and 540 inches. I think it is really a camshaft decision. Where do you want the power curve to sit at, how lumpy of a cam are you willing to put up with, and how are you going to decide what the timing should be to work with your intake and exhaust systems?

Here is a short video of a customer's car. This is a 505 with pump gas compression, TF270 heads with a ported Indy intake. He is running a 4150 flange Sniper XFlow and a solid roller cam. I think he has the same 264/268 Comp roller that Dwayne designed for my 470 dyno engine. This engine made a little over 700 hp on the dyno. I think peak was 713 or something like that. It has a very lumpy idle. The idle was too radical for a four speed so he had to switch the car over to a 727. It drives pretty well with a high stall converter and it shows a lot of potential at the track. I think it weighs around 4000 lbs so your car might be a bit heavier. I think this car ran high 10's the first time at the track but I'm not sure. He hasn't taken it to the track much so it isn't sorted out yet.
https://youtu.be/fGiFuOuBnvQ

Suggestion for you. You spent all that money on a nice block, great choice. Why not make it more bulletproof with a dry sump. I know how much more it costs, that’s what I did. It’s not a whole lot more than a good wet sump setup. 2cents.

Thanks, I'm totally, completely ok with that level of idle chop- my car is almost as bad right now with the 0.590 solid in it.

https://youtube.com/shorts/0JXBtCaDklA?si=IWh1aJWk2TNNq-HB

we have pump 93 here and any time it gets sprayed I do mix race gas in it for safety, but on motor would like to keep it pump gas friendly. Sounds like bumping the compression up to the ragged edge is not worth the hassle.

Thelma- I am struggling a bit with that decision. If it was in something other than a C body a dry sump makes sense but it would require an oddly shaped custom oil pan to start with and I don't know how much of the subframe can be cut away to put a better shaped oil pan on it. $15k seems to get me a solid 700-ish hp pump gas street motor, that meets my performance goal on spray. I could spend $30k and move to something like the BES B1 heads with custom 2 1/4" headers and make 850+ NA, but I think that is more radical than what I want this car to be on the street, and definitely more than I want or have to spend. It does seem to be a bit of a waste to buy a good block and build such a low output motor but the goal is durability, and if it never spins past 7k I don't think a dry sump really buys me that much.

Maybe someone with one of the better engine sims can model your combo, with the small headers…….. and play with the cam timing a bit and see what the trends look like.

the 1/2" diameter loss of the 3" collector will limit you far more than the 1/8th inch of primary size, the collector will be like a Peak Torque RPM cork and limityour torque peak to a lower RPM, whereas the primary will slowly pull down the power (relative to the larger pipe) at whatever that RPM peak is achieved.

I whacked the 3" collector of a set of Hooker 1 7/8" at the back of the primary tubes (shortening them a bit too) and slid on and welded a 3 1/2", And when I went from a RB standard port to a Stage 6 headed low deck with the raised ports I never even had to take the collector flanges off the X pipe! fit perfectly.

For what it’s worth, Aviad is advertising the entire setup on their website for 3700.00. You will probably want a bigger tank than what they offer, they can be had from Stefs or Petersen. I’m not sure if their prices are up to date, but their pan depth would probably fit above your K member with no trouble. Take a look at Aviads website, you may find it interesting. Dry sump was worth it for me, about 25 additional horsepower on the dyno. Bes ported my 440-1 and manifold, I do have aluminum rods and higher compression than you may want, but I made 850hp easily with my bill miller aluminum block. Mine is 572 also. I understand the radical part, my car is strip only.

IF you are considering buying heads from BES, just call there and ask them, what to do, get the heads, cam, intake all from them???

Block showed up today! FedEx even wheeled it into the garage for me. SN 1082, I understand why they can take so much power now, the difference in the mains is impressive. It came with all the hardware needed and cam bearings as well which was a nice touch. Need to figure out what rear main seal to use. The included pickup adapter is 1/2" NPT. I still need to flip it over to make sure all of the head bolt holes were drilled!

Wize, I definitely think I can cut the collectors off these and change them to 3.5". Making headers isn't in my skillset but I do have friends that would help me redo the collectors. I want to do 3.5" to cutouts, then 3" to the rest of the exhaust.

Having to temper back the scope creep. A dry sump and the full BES top end with their B1's looks killer, but that's gonna be another $15k to spend, including getting custom headers made. That's a decent value to add another 300 hp. A relatively mild 540 with my plate kit is going to get me to where I want the car to be though, and worst case am thinking I could redo the top end later if low 10's isn't quick enough.

Thinking I only need a 6 bolt crank, going to order them and the rods after Christmas, along with a bunch of stuff from Summit. Also thinking head studs over head bolts. Will measure tomorrow to see if I can fit the 440-2 Indy intake underhood or if I need to stick with the TF 4150 intake and then port match it myself.

6 bolt crank is all you need but before you decide double check availability on flex plates. You'll want a high quality flex plate for that engine and sometimes 8 bolt ones are easier to find in the SFI grade. Head studs can be a nice upgrade but sometimes they'll interfere with the header flange. With the power you'll be making you need to upgrade a lot of the little parts. You'll need Cometic head gaskets for example, and the best bearings. The one piece rear main from Fast Fish is usually a good investment but you might want to talk to the engine builder before you buy too many parts. Some engine guys only want to use certain parts.

That is a nice looking car!! I get the temper, I call it mission creep. I know a guy that makes custom stainless headers if you ever wanted to spend the money. It sure wasn’t cheap, but It’s the best part of my engine. But I have plenty of room in my cuda. He has made headers for lots of original mopar cars that I thought weren’t possible. His headers are a work of art.

Yep, we did the 8 bolt Molnar crank. Competition Products had good pricing on the crank and rods, but that was quite a while ago. You might check them out, though.

I usually use Molnar for cranks and rods unless it is a killer race engine and then we would step up to Callies. But for this engine I'd buy from Molnar if they had them in stock. MI vendor so freight is less too. The dealer discount is significant from Molnar so if you want a Molnar crank see if you can find a local dealer. Could save you about $300 on the crank.

Maybe a getting a little off topic but Jon Kasse says it is very important to use stainless headers or headers that are well coated inside the pipes.

Why? He says rust from the pipes get sucked back into the engine. He said sometimes as far back as the carburetor.

Thanks Thelma, appreciate it!

Andy- right now I have to buy a flexplate too (the one on the car isn't SFI) so I can buy either, looks like both the 6 and 8 bolt ones are available from B&M at Summit right now. Don't think I'll ever exceed 1000 hp with this combo no matter how much it gets sprayed so the 6 bolt should be ok, same with Molnar vs. stepping up to a real Callies USA forged crank. Center counterweight would be nice if I ever swapped the top end to make real power, but I can't find any of the import forgings in CCW.

I worked at Roush 2 decades ago and used to be able to get parts at wholesale cost, got cranks and cams for a few guys on the board, the discount back then was significant. I should've stockpiled parts back then instead of starting fresh.

Competition Products doesn't look like they sell Molnar anymore. Mancinis and Ray Barton both do and they're cheaper than what Molnar would sell them for, thanks!

Bill - that's definitely true. On the Harleys I've owned you can hear and see anything near the exhaust get sucked in and blown back out when they start.

Try Campbell Enterprises for Molnar stuff.
Doug

I've bought all of my Molnar stuff from Campbell. Marshall has been great to deal with. Waiting on a crankshaft for my Dad's 383 now from them.

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/amazing-video-jon-kaase-tests-airflow-dynamics-with-his-finger/

Probably because of all the pulsing going on. There's been rusty exhaust on most of the cars forever and ever. Suppose the greater the investment in the engine the more a person would want to protect the investment.

Me thinks that be baloney sauce, sucked back into the engine up to the carb when running

X2

If it were me and you have to run the smaller headers you need to up the compression and reduce the overlap, build more torque sooner and lower the RPM peak...Kinda similar to if you have FAST Racing type exhaust restrictions....

As small as 1 7/8" x 3 1/2 with a 3" system sounds, I'm sure some of the FAST guys limited to Manifolds and 2 1/2-ish(lol) would kill for the ET gains they might make having the exhaust system you're working with.

Also the 40-50HP difference/advantage with open headers on a Dyno is likely to be considerably reduced in an actual car with full exhaust pushing against rolling and wind resistance.

To me a big C body is going to ET better on FAT mid range torque, it's going to make it's best moves through the middle and on the shift recovery and it's simply not going to top end charge like a lighter car with a lot less frontal area.

You want a big grunt motor not so much a 'horspower' motor.

I got a ported MW Indy Dual plane if you want to borrow it to try it out. I'd run it over a single plane on something like your 68

Unless it's in a really light car like an A body, to me a BB Mopar is less like a Hemi or a Small block Mopar and more like a Buick/Olds/Pontiac type motor, and the ET's respond to a similar kind of race tuning.

Also if you look at your exhaust sytem I would put the 3 1/2" collector on it and bring it straight back and run your "street" system coming out of the collector extention on a 45 degree cut out branch on each side. Forcing your exhaust through that 'double dog leg ' just to get to the cut out is killing some torque and power.

I think this is where I heard him talk about this, Hidden Horsepower episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfAt5XTQDrI

I have always thought Kaase was a smart no BS type of guy and I choose to believe him.

Bill

Edit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moUZPvAmvr4&t=7s

This is the correct video, discussion starts about 31:08

Thanks guys, Campbell looks to have the best advertised prices for Molnar stuff so once I'm back in town I'll definitely order from them. I also called Callies, they weren't sure if a 4.375" crank would fit with the internal pickup, but did confirm a 4.25" fits with no issues. I looked under the car again and I only see one potential routing for an external oil line next to the block, because of where the steering box mount is a taller oil pump or one with a sandwiched plate like the Milodon setups won't fit. I could maybe route a -12 line up to the inlet on the block with a 90* fitting but it's going to be very tight.



This makes a lot of sense, thanks. I definitely want to put as much compression in it as possible. I'm sure I could get by with 12.5:1 on the street with some timing pulled out of it but that will also make it lazy and also run warmer than it would otherwise.

Definitely think I'm going to need a tighter converter. The converter in the car now flashes to ~4500 on motor and maybe 5000 with a 180 shot. Even if this new motor only makes 700, I think that's a solid 100 more than it currently makes on nitrous and should have a similar torque curve too.

Agree totally on the location of the dumps, make the open end have flow priority and then let it make a 45* turn to join the rest of the exhaust.

Appreciate the offer on the intake, honestly I'm probably a year out from getting the motor in the car. Originally thought I'd assemble it myself with help from friends who offered, but am getting gunshy now adding up the receipts of what has been bought already and what it still needs. Might start contacting some builders.

If you want an Indy single plane intake, I have one (4150) that BES ported. It’s too small for my application.

I recall seeing that. He said it occurs at startup and to rev the engine as soon as possible when starting. Reversion tends to suck the debris back up into the plenum. They were finding rust up there and couldn't figure it out.

Dude has done more testing than 99% of the people out there.

"IF IT WERE ME" and I had to rework anything exhaust. I'd look into how well a bigger shelf header fits...2-2.125 step etc Rework whatever few tubes if any need attention. Otherwise you're leaving a good amount on the table. There was at least one other comment about something 'might be a tight fit' and I'll share that THAT'S ALWAYS THE CASE in our world. It's just going to take typical hotrodding ingenuity. Also, with that CID and your small ports, I'd target 11-11.5:1 You can make all the power you're after and get by on cheap gas.

Contact Don Kromer and have him build a modern art masterpiece, and he'll make the right size tubes fit the car. In reality his custom stuff is not that much more expensive than TTI for what you are getting. He was great to deal with, and a wealth of racing knowledge.

Figured I'd pop in for a quick update on this one. Haven't done anything with the car all winter, but parts are piling up, along with the events and to do list. Was already signed up for Sick Summer and just got registered for Drag Week as well.

Have almost everything on order or here now for the motor now besides pushrods. I talked to a few different people, some shops had lead times of > 8 months. In the end it made sense to go with a friend, Jim Pranis originally built the engine and trans that is in the car now and he is excited to help me build the new motor as well. AndyF and Dwayne helped out with parts as well!

Going full speed ahead on a 540, Molnar crank/rods, ATI balancer, Diamond 11:1 pistons ordered through another local friend, 0.060" quench so it's got a wider tuning window for nitrous (or if I ever swap it to procharger or turbo), total overkill BAM DLC lifters, cometics, Andy's billet timing cover/button setup and a rollmaster timing chain, modest Comp custom solid roller, Indy 440-2 intake, Moroso 7 qt pan and 1/2" pickup, Melling HV pump, HS e series rockers. I also have King coated rod bearings, and a set of Clevite 3/4 groove main bearings- I also have a set of King XP series main bearings ordered and I was going to use whichever set had better overall clearances. They were supposed to ship last week, but are now indicating May.

Going to run it initially with the 1 7/8" headers, plate kit and 850 Holley, but expect to eventually swap it to either a Dominator or a Dominator-sized FI unit.

Tom Bailey wanted drag and drive cars in his Sick the Mag display at Autorama next week so I'm in for that. Afterward I'm going to get the rear seatcovers redone and a rollbar put in it before Sick Summer. I also want to install the tailpipes and cutouts before then so it's a little quieter for the street drives.

Then between Sick Summer and Drag Week I'll try to get the new motor in if it's assembled, dynoed and ready to go. Hoping it goes mid-low 11's on motor with the 540 and then can spray it to low 10's for Street Machine Eliminator.

No shortage of work and my wallet is definitely on fire!

Sounds like a great project and I'm sure it will be a big learning experience as well as a fun time.

Cool beans buddy, sounds like you're setting yourself up for the future really well.

There will come a time when traction is the key to going faster, not making more power

Minor update, still waiting on pistons, they're supposed to be here April 5th. Hoping to drop off the engine parts a week or two later with Jim for machining and assembly! In the meantime I checked spring heights, looks like the retainers Dwayne sourced for me will be perfect with removal of the shim under the spring bucket, but I murdered a valve seal trying to get the first one off so a new set is on the way. Pic attached of my cylinder head build area.

Also dropped the seats off to get recovered by a local upholstery shop, will see those in 6-8 weeks. Going to toss fresh carpet in it as well.

everyone needs a "clean room" for engine assembly.

The decor of your assembly room is interesting.

Looks like very nice bachelor pad or a very understanding car wife.

Gus

Good stuff! On a whim me and a buddy went to Cobo on Friday night LATE. I saw and we waited around your car for a few but you were nowhere in site. There was a lot of show to see in a short time so, I didn't text you. Either way it was neat to see the car there and good luck this season!

My wife would murder me!

I had the interior for a car "staged" in our fully finished basement living area for a couple of months (carpet with seats setup) and I've never heard the end of it!

lucky for me, there is a "junk room" in this old house [built in 1872] that i am allowed to keep car "stuff". [not her words, but you get the idea. ]
works perfectly for those items that need to be kept in a [somewhat] climate controlled area.

Nice “shop stereo”

How much “naws” are you spraying those Maggie’s?

Sean, thanks! I had no idea how many people I knew were going to be there on Friday. I wasn't down at Autorama until midday saturday and sunday, if it's ever in the show again I'll spend more time hanging out for sure. Would've been great to meet you, hoping to make it out to all of the shootout saturdays at Milan to spectate this year.

I have a vintage Lil Indian minibike I fully restored during covid lockdown in my livingroom as well, lol

My garage isn't heated and my basement isn't finished, the dining room seemed like a perfect location. Currently don't have a live in girlfriend, so car parts are fair game in the house.

Dwayne, good eye on the maggies! I actually got those for free a little while ago from one of the buy nothing facebook groups, they need regluing and rewiring. I'll attempt it myself but they're on the project back burner until the car is done.

Have a McIntosh hybrid tube amp, a Technics 1200g turntable, and some Pioneer HPM-100's in the living room that get used on almost a daily basis, can't live without a decent stereo. If my garage was nicer I'd have a decent system out there as well.

TF has figured out how to make sure the seals won’t come loose in operation that’s for sure.

They’re really on there.
Having a replacement set on hand is a good move.

I’ve been able to get them off without totally ruining them before, but it’s time consuming.

If the bottom of the seal is right against the step of the spring locator, then it’s even harder.

In for pics of the Indian!

I have a fancy Honda Mini Trail 50 that hides under a blanket in the garage.

They definitely spared no expense on the valve guide steps to keep the seals on! Glad I bought an extra set of seals as I murdered a few of them...

Quick update, got the retainers and springs all swapped over, I had 2 different valvespring compressors and neither of them did that great of a job on the Isky springs. The manual one I bought from Summit was clunky and hard to keep centered, and a very nice air powered one I borrowed from a friend didn't have enough oomph to compress the springs the last 1/8" or so to get the keepers in easily- I would end up hitting the retainer with a soft mallet that would allow the keepers to drop in. They're all in within 1.975"-1.995" now depending on the existing shims that were already installed.

Dropped all of the engine parts off to Jim in Pittsburgh last week, except the pistons which still weren't done even though they were promised on the 5th! Those just showed up yesterday, picked them up from another friend here in Detroit that is starting his own engine shop and is attached to Mike Moran's building so I got a tour of that facility too. Shipped the pistons last night so hopefully machinework can start and I'll see the motor in a month or two! Final compression will be 11.04:1 after the deck gets cut to 10.720" for the cometics. I'm on work trips for most of May, will be cutting it really close for Sick Summer but we'll see how it plays out. Due to some unexpected personal stuff I might not do Drag Week this year, but am still hoping to do Sick Summer. Really excited to see what it will do with the new motor!

GY3, would love to see the pics of the Honda. This is my Lil Indian, went overboard restoring it during covid, and it's now too nice to use as a pit bike so I have a Coleman that gets used at the track.

-Nick