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Calling All 727 Experts
#3167675
08/13/23 05:19 PM
08/13/23 05:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
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Background - my transmission guy is no rookie and has successfully gone through this transmissions a few times in the past. I am not faulting him!
With my new motor combination, the output shaft was a weak link. This is an A&A transmission and I bought an aftermarket shaft and my trans guy put it in. Also new converter.
The car did not have neutral or reverse - went forward. The transmission was heavily contaminated with magnetic particles otherwise we saw zero wrong with the transmission or where the contamination came from. We thought it was a converter issues - converter guys says minor contamination and all good with the converter.
Carefully cleaned everything and reassembled. Same issue.
- goes forward in neutral and reverse
- brake is fully engaged in neutral
- in third gear on the brake it was slipping against the brake but moving forward
- magnetic particle contamination in the pan although not as bad as the first time
What are we missing?
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: markz528]
#3167687
08/13/23 06:15 PM
08/13/23 06:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
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Background - my transmission guy is no rookie and has successfully gone through this transmissions a few times in the past. I am not faulting him!
With my new motor combination, the output shaft was a weak link. This is an A&A transmission and I bought an aftermarket shaft and my trans guy put it in. Also new converter.
The car did not have neutral or reverse - went forward. The transmission was heavily contaminated with magnetic particles otherwise we saw zero wrong with the transmission or where the contamination came from. We thought it was a converter issues - converter guys says minor contamination and all good with the converter.
Carefully cleaned everything and reassembled. Same issue.
- goes forward in neutral and reverse
- brake is fully engaged in neutral
- in third gear on the brake it was slipping against the brake but moving forward
- magnetic particle contamination in the pan although not as bad as the first time
What are we missing?
Regarding the contamination - how did you clean the cooler and lines ?
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3167697
08/13/23 06:43 PM
08/13/23 06:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
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Background - my transmission guy is no rookie and has successfully gone through this transmissions a few times in the past. I am not faulting him!
With my new motor combination, the output shaft was a weak link. This is an A&A transmission and I bought an aftermarket shaft and my trans guy put it in. Also new converter.
The car did not have neutral or reverse - went forward. The transmission was heavily contaminated with magnetic particles otherwise we saw zero wrong with the transmission or where the contamination came from. We thought it was a converter issues - converter guys says minor contamination and all good with the converter.
Carefully cleaned everything and reassembled. Same issue.
- goes forward in neutral and reverse
- brake is fully engaged in neutral
- in third gear on the brake it was slipping against the brake but moving forward
- magnetic particle contamination in the pan although not as bad as the first time
What are we missing?
Regarding the contamination - how did you clean the cooler and lines ? I was very anal. Denatured alcohol. Flushed about 3 minutes. 30 micron filter. 
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: jwb123]
#3167724
08/13/23 09:02 PM
08/13/23 09:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,836
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,836
MI, usa
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I'm assuming the same valve body. Also assuming this issue didn't exist before the new output shaft was installed. Unless the input and output shaft are stuck together the rear clutch has to be driving the front planetary annulas. I'd look real close at the stack up between the annulas and the rear clutch pack being it has a new output shaft.
Doug
Last edited by dvw; 08/13/23 09:03 PM.
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: dvw]
#3167728
08/13/23 09:56 PM
08/13/23 09:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
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Thank you for the replies!
I like the idea of putting gauges on it. I will see what Rick Allison says about that.
I really know very little about these transmissions. But starting to drink from a fire hose to learn. Correct that the trans was fine until we put the output shaft in it. And always done by the same guy.
The symptoms should lead us down the right path. Why the contamination? From the drum? It is a steel drum.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: markz528]
#3167739
08/13/23 10:32 PM
08/13/23 10:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,076
Michigan
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Thank you for the replies!
I like the idea of putting gauges on it. I will see what Rick Allison says about that.
I really know very little about these transmissions. But starting to drink from a fire hose to learn. Correct that the trans was fine until we put the output shaft in it. And always done by the same guy.
The symptoms should lead us down the right path. Why the contamination? From the drum? It is a steel drum. If you were meticulous and had the whole trans apart and cleaned, and the cooler and lines were cleaned as you say, then there has to be a dirt generator inside - need to find it.
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: markz528]
#3167752
08/14/23 01:00 AM
08/14/23 01:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/14/23 01:04 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: markz528]
#3167756
08/14/23 04:45 AM
08/14/23 04:45 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 760
Southington Ct.
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Sounds like something is stuck, maybe in the transbrake solenoid, Other than that it would be a cross leak.
AG.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: dvw]
#3167793
08/14/23 10:12 AM
08/14/23 10:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
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I'm assuming the same valve body. Also assuming this issue didn't exist before the new output shaft was installed. Unless the input and output shaft are stuck together the rear clutch has to be driving the front planetary annulas. I'd look real close at the stack up between the annulas and the rear clutch pack being it has a new output shaft.
Doug
This is understanding also. I always document the clutch pack clearances when assembling the trans. Just in case something changed even if the rear clutch looked good. Lack of rear clutch clearance could cause it.
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: jwb123]
#3167809
08/14/23 11:25 AM
08/14/23 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,796
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,796
Rio Linda, CA
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First thing always when you have a weird transmission problem is to put a set of gauges on it. Especially a Mopar transmission. The engineers were actually nice to you a pressure port for every friction element. Except the clutches, no way to gauge the pressure at them and the line pressure test port is blocked in many race VB's.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: J_BODY]
#3185711
10/22/23 01:50 PM
10/22/23 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
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Update - well no surprise it appears to be in the rear clutch. I pulled the valve body. It fails the rear clutch air pressure test................ Will get fixed next month.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: markz528]
#3191916
11/18/23 11:40 PM
11/18/23 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
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Well its apart again. Not what I expected. Its got the wrong stator in it. That's why it failed the rear clutch air test. Somehow he did not put my original stator back in.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: dvw]
#3191960
11/19/23 09:17 AM
11/19/23 09:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
markz528
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
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Is this the stator or stator support. I circled the difference in the ports.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Calling All 727 Experts
[Re: dvw]
#3191965
11/19/23 09:49 AM
11/19/23 09:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 876
Missouri
jwb123
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 876
Missouri
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Wrong stator? Or wrong stator support? I can't see how the wrong stator would affect rear clutch apply.
Doug The stator support is how the fluid gets to the clutches, fluid goes from the valvebody into the case into the pump, stator support and to the clutches. One of the common air tests to do when rebuilding is to stack the two drums on the front pump and apply air to the feed holes in the pump to apply the clutches and check for leaks. If the rebuilder had performed that test he would have found the issue on the bench.
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