Leaf spring advancements
#3127630
03/08/23 08:57 PM
03/08/23 08:57 PM
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Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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Has anybody thought about changing out the rear segment on a Calvert mono leaf for more or less stored energy .. has anybody ever mixed a composite rear segment with a steel front segment I'm currently working on changing things around looking for more stored energy however the Calvert Springs just do not have very much Arch definitely not as much Arch as I would like.. the rear end currently suspends 3 inches from ride height before the car has to fight the spring as well as the shock I'd like to increase that to 5 in of free travel and maintain a relatively low stance
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: WHITEDART]
#3127651
03/08/23 09:42 PM
03/08/23 09:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Calvert will make any arch you want. I would call them and discuss it with them.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#3127702
03/09/23 12:42 AM
03/09/23 12:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
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WHITEDART
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Not anymore the business has sold I just don't think they have the technical background anymore
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: WHITEDART]
#3127712
03/09/23 01:28 AM
03/09/23 01:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
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Landrum does leaf springs. Haven't talked to anyone at Calvert. Someone should be able to build a spring to spec.
Spring rate and compression at ride height. I'm not an expert but a low rate spring with enough arch to get it loaded and hold desired ride height will store more energy than a high rate spring that is deflected less..
More horsepower, gear, etc usually means less help needed from low rate springs to get the tire applied. i.e same car, same weight with a mild small block and automatic would get a different spring than a decent big block stick combo. Springs matter. They don't just hold the car up as some people think.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 03/09/23 01:29 AM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3127741
03/09/23 10:01 AM
03/09/23 10:01 AM
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My thinking here is a power Adder car has enough horsepower to separate the spring Beyond its neutral position down track on a motor car we lack down track horsepower which means the leaf spring is actually trying to pull the tire back up off the track.. this is just a theory for instance I have five and a half inches of shock travel and a leaf spring that only suspends two and a half inches from ride height.. so the car on separation actually is beginning to fight the leaf spring after two and a half inches I think ideally when I'm looking for is for the same right height and a leaf spring that will suspend five or six inches that way all of the action will be controlled by shock adjustment not the added variable of the spring
Last edited by WHITEDART; 03/09/23 10:06 AM.
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3127742
03/09/23 10:02 AM
03/09/23 10:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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Landrum does leaf springs. Haven't talked to anyone at Calvert. Someone should be able to build a spring to spec.
Spring rate and compression at ride height. I'm not an expert but a low rate spring with enough arch to get it loaded and hold desired ride height will store more energy than a high rate spring that is deflected less..
More horsepower, gear, etc usually means less help needed from low rate springs to get the tire applied. i.e same car, same weight with a mild small block and automatic would get a different spring than a decent big block stick combo. Springs matter. They don't just hold the car up as some people think. . You're thinking exactly the same way I am I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get there
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: WHITEDART]
#3127750
03/09/23 10:17 AM
03/09/23 10:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,027 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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Tulsa OK
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Maybe try a section from a stock leaf spring and cut it to be a rear section?
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: WHITEDART]
#3127757
03/09/23 10:45 AM
03/09/23 10:45 AM
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dvw
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My thinking here is a power Adder car has enough horsepower to separate the spring Beyond its neutral position down track on a motor car we lack down track horsepower which means the leaf spring is actually trying to pull the tire back up off the track.. this is just a theory for instance I have five and a half inches of shock travel and a leaf spring that only suspends two and a half inches from ride height.. so the car on separation actually is beginning to fight the leaf spring after two and a half inches I think ideally when I'm looking for is for the same right height and a leaf spring that will suspend five or six inches that way all of the action will be controlled by shock adjustment not the added variable of the spring Exactly, the more power you have the less help you need with planting the tire. So without a poer adder, you want a spring with less rate. To acomplish the same ride height with leafs there are 2 options. #1 mount the spring attaching points lower in the body. Since your instant center seems to be working that means moving the rear slider. #2 find a spring segment with more arch. There are probay more places that could built a steel spring then there are a composite. The trick is knowing what rate you need. Any arch could be put into a steel spring.
Last edited by dvw; 03/09/23 10:46 AM.
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: WHITEDART]
#3127778
03/09/23 12:33 PM
03/09/23 12:33 PM
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Posts: 12,391 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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My thinking here is a power Adder car has enough horsepower to separate the spring Beyond its neutral position down track on a motor car we lack down track horsepower which means the leaf spring is actually trying to pull the tire back up off the track.. this is just a theory for instance I have five and a half inches of shock travel and a leaf spring that only suspends two and a half inches from ride height.. so the car on separation actually is beginning to fight the leaf spring after two and a half inches I think ideally when I'm looking for is for the same right height and a leaf spring that will suspend five or six inches that way all of the action will be controlled by shock adjustment not the added variable of the spring So maybe its time to call your shock guy. Most of the fast leaf spring cars are using the blue Afco's or Santuff shocks...I know the valving is key... https://www.afcoracing.com/store.aspx?itemid=3548&pagetitle=Big-GunRhodes makes it seem simple: https://www.motortrend.com/features/leaf-spring-tips-tricks-x275-racer-ron-rhodes/
Last edited by Dragula; 03/09/23 12:34 PM.
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: challenger451ci]
#3127840
03/09/23 03:11 PM
03/09/23 03:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,679 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
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just add a small plate kit ..... I know...... LMAO , im just being "that guy" Props for keeping it all motor The level your at now......info doesnt seem to come easy . As already mentioned, get with a "good" shock guy and hopefully you get some help. ALSO 235 radial cars are right at your ET level, and yes they have a power adder but some are leaf spring cars and maybe some of that info can crossover to your program. Are you data logging, and do you have rear shock sensors to see the travel as the car is going down the track?? AND ....nitrous cars dont add power down track, usually the kit is all in by .9 or less , so in reality you are pretty close to a 235 radial car
Last edited by n20mstr; 03/09/23 03:18 PM.
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: WHITEDART]
#3127859
03/09/23 03:53 PM
03/09/23 03:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,579
Fulton County, PA
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Landrum does leaf springs. Haven't talked to anyone at Calvert. Someone should be able to build a spring to spec.
Spring rate and compression at ride height. I'm not an expert but a low rate spring with enough arch to get it loaded and hold desired ride height will store more energy than a high rate spring that is deflected less..
More horsepower, gear, etc usually means less help needed from low rate springs to get the tire applied. i.e same car, same weight with a mild small block and automatic would get a different spring than a decent big block stick combo. Springs matter. They don't just hold the car up as some people think. . You're thinking exactly the same way I am I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get there DA shocks to control it all. Maybe some fancy shocks to hold the housing out until you want them to release. With some of the stuff I'm involved with now, I'm getting into OEM suspension stuff more than I have in the past. Same principles apply. A spring - coil, leaf, torsion - all react the same to a change in rate and preload/compression at ride height.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 03/09/23 03:54 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: WHITEDART]
#3127868
03/09/23 04:35 PM
03/09/23 04:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,514 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
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Not anymore the business has sold I just don't think they have the technical background anymore Shiloh, Not sure where you heard that Cavert has sold but apparently it is not true. I asked the company about it and this was their response: "No sir, not true at all, John Calvert is still owner, he did move to Arizona a year ago, so maybe that is why someone thinks this."
I have not used their customer service lately so I can't comment, it used to be excellent. Bill
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: 340Cuda]
#3127887
03/09/23 06:26 PM
03/09/23 06:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,507 PA
moparacer
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My theory is as stiff as possible on the front segment and soft on the rear. Kind of mimic what a ladder bar does with the front being stiff and the rear having the springs that hold up the car. All the rear segment would do is technically hold the car up.
Last edited by moparacer; 03/09/23 06:27 PM.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119 68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152 414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: moparacer]
#3127894
03/09/23 07:04 PM
03/09/23 07:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky
justinp61
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My theory is as stiff as possible on the front segment and soft on the rear. Kind of mimic what a ladder bar does with the front being stiff and the rear having the springs that hold up the car. All the rear segment would do is technically hold the car up. I've wondered about using tubing for the front segment and the rear section from a calvert spring. It would eliminate the need for any type traction bar............I think.
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: n20mstr]
#3127955
03/09/23 10:31 PM
03/09/23 10:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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just add a small plate kit ..... I know...... LMAO , im just being "that guy" Props for keeping it all motor The level your at now......info doesnt seem to come easy . As already mentioned, get with a "good" shock guy and hopefully you get some help. ALSO 235 radial cars are right at your ET level, and yes they have a power adder but some are leaf spring cars and maybe some of that info can crossover to your program. Are you data logging, and do you have rear shock sensors to see the travel as the car is going down the track?? AND ....nitrous cars dont add power down track, usually the kit is all in by .9 or less , so in reality you are pretty close to a 235 radial car yeah working closely with mensker there shocks are on all four corners and have been back and forth a few times to tune them up.. yes we have racpak unfortunately we do not have travel sensors at this time however we do video under car often typically the problem is at the area that we want to work on is .3 to .4 typically. And I do agree with your statement regarding the 235 tire stuff. on a good track like Vegas or Sacramento a 1.12. 60 ft is common on the marginal tracks where I think we can be better.
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Leaf spring advancements
[Re: 340Cuda]
#3127957
03/09/23 10:33 PM
03/09/23 10:33 PM
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Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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Not anymore the business has sold I just don't think they have the technical background anymore Shiloh, Not sure where you heard that Cavert has sold but apparently it is not true. I asked the company about it and this was their response: "No sir, not true at all, John Calvert is still owner, he did move to Arizona a year ago, so maybe that is why someone thinks this."
I have not used their customer service lately so I can't comment, it used to be excellent. Bill I have been an advocate for Calvert for many years it has been noticed that there has been a change I guess
Last edited by WHITEDART; 03/09/23 10:34 PM.
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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