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Leaf spring advancements #3127630
03/08/23 08:57 PM
03/08/23 08:57 PM
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bean town ....Ca
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WHITEDART Offline OP
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Has anybody thought about changing out the rear segment on a Calvert mono leaf for more or less stored energy ..
has anybody ever mixed a composite rear segment with a steel front segment
I'm currently working on changing things around looking for more stored energy however the Calvert Springs just do not have very much Arch definitely not as much Arch as I would like.. the rear end currently suspends 3 inches from ride height before the car has to fight the spring as well as the shock I'd like to increase that to 5 in of free travel and maintain a relatively low stance


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: WHITEDART] #3127651
03/08/23 09:42 PM
03/08/23 09:42 PM
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Calvert will make any arch you want. I would call them and discuss it with them.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


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Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: Guitar Jones] #3127702
03/09/23 12:42 AM
03/09/23 12:42 AM
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bean town ....Ca
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Not anymore the business has sold I just don't think they have the technical background anymore


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: WHITEDART] #3127712
03/09/23 01:28 AM
03/09/23 01:28 AM
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Fulton County, PA
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Landrum does leaf springs. Haven't talked to anyone at Calvert. Someone should be able to build a spring to spec.

Spring rate and compression at ride height. I'm not an expert but a low rate spring with enough arch to get it loaded and hold desired ride height will store more energy than a high rate spring that is deflected less..

More horsepower, gear, etc usually means less help needed from low rate springs to get the tire applied. i.e same car, same weight with a mild small block and automatic would get a different spring than a decent big block stick combo. Springs matter. They don't just hold the car up as some people think.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 03/09/23 01:29 AM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: CMcAllister] #3127727
03/09/23 08:36 AM
03/09/23 08:36 AM
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dvw Offline
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You would need a weaker back half with more arch. Just not sure who would make it. Rhodes, Barnett, etc have been so quick they are most likely using a stiffer back half. Maybe thining the section width wise to weaken it? And then moving the slider mount towards the ground to maintain ride height?
Doug

Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: WHITEDART] #3127732
03/09/23 08:52 AM
03/09/23 08:52 AM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Seems to me the guys with a particular X275 '68 Dart ran them and had a record of 4.17 in the 1/8th at the time. So I know it can be done. The latest thing is to put Caltrac Sliders on them. I am considering this for mine. And yes, mine are relatively flat as well. But I bet my 1.33 sixty foot is nowhere nears yours. I am not happy with the ride they give, or the inconsistent 60fts.....I actually like the RMS rear bolt on 4-link system even more...Wondering if that could be adapted to my tubbed POS...I would call Calvert and get one of their techs on the line....


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

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'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
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Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: CMcAllister] #3127741
03/09/23 10:01 AM
03/09/23 10:01 AM
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bean town ....Ca
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WHITEDART Offline OP
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My thinking here is a power Adder car has enough horsepower to separate the spring Beyond its neutral position down track on a motor car we lack down track horsepower which means the leaf spring is actually trying to pull the tire back up off the track.. this is just a theory for instance I have five and a half inches of shock travel and a leaf spring that only suspends two and a half inches from ride height.. so the car on separation actually is beginning to fight the leaf spring after two and a half inches I think ideally when I'm looking for is for the same right height and a leaf spring that will suspend five or six inches that way all of the action will be controlled by shock adjustment not the added variable of the spring

Last edited by WHITEDART; 03/09/23 10:06 AM.

In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: CMcAllister] #3127742
03/09/23 10:02 AM
03/09/23 10:02 AM
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bean town ....Ca
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WHITEDART Offline OP
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Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Landrum does leaf springs. Haven't talked to anyone at Calvert. Someone should be able to build a spring to spec.

Spring rate and compression at ride height. I'm not an expert but a low rate spring with enough arch to get it loaded and hold desired ride height will store more energy than a high rate spring that is deflected less..

More horsepower, gear, etc usually means less help needed from low rate springs to get the tire applied. i.e same car, same weight with a mild small block and automatic would get a different spring than a decent big block stick combo. Springs matter. They don't just hold the car up as some people think.
. You're thinking exactly the same way I am I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get there


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: WHITEDART] #3127750
03/09/23 10:17 AM
03/09/23 10:17 AM
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Tulsa OK
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Maybe try a section from a stock leaf spring and cut it to be a rear section?


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: WHITEDART] #3127757
03/09/23 10:45 AM
03/09/23 10:45 AM
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dvw Offline
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Originally Posted by WHITEDART
My thinking here is a power Adder car has enough horsepower to separate the spring Beyond its neutral position down track on a motor car we lack down track horsepower which means the leaf spring is actually trying to pull the tire back up off the track.. this is just a theory for instance I have five and a half inches of shock travel and a leaf spring that only suspends two and a half inches from ride height.. so the car on separation actually is beginning to fight the leaf spring after two and a half inches I think ideally when I'm looking for is for the same right height and a leaf spring that will suspend five or six inches that way all of the action will be controlled by shock adjustment not the added variable of the spring


Exactly, the more power you have the less help you need with planting the tire. So without a poer adder, you want a spring with less rate. To acomplish the same ride height with leafs there are 2 options. #1 mount the spring attaching points lower in the body. Since your instant center seems to be working that means moving the rear slider. #2 find a spring segment with more arch. There are probay more places that could built a steel spring then there are a composite. The trick is knowing what rate you need. Any arch could be put into a steel spring.

Last edited by dvw; 03/09/23 10:46 AM.
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: dvw] #3127762
03/09/23 11:20 AM
03/09/23 11:20 AM
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Do you know the current spring rate?

Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: WHITEDART] #3127778
03/09/23 12:33 PM
03/09/23 12:33 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,384
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Originally Posted by WHITEDART
My thinking here is a power Adder car has enough horsepower to separate the spring Beyond its neutral position down track on a motor car we lack down track horsepower which means the leaf spring is actually trying to pull the tire back up off the track.. this is just a theory for instance I have five and a half inches of shock travel and a leaf spring that only suspends two and a half inches from ride height.. so the car on separation actually is beginning to fight the leaf spring after two and a half inches I think ideally when I'm looking for is for the same right height and a leaf spring that will suspend five or six inches that way all of the action will be controlled by shock adjustment not the added variable of the spring


So maybe its time to call your shock guy. Most of the fast leaf spring cars are using the blue Afco's or Santuff shocks...I know the valving is key...

https://www.afcoracing.com/store.aspx?itemid=3548&pagetitle=Big-Gun

Rhodes makes it seem simple:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/leaf-spring-tips-tricks-x275-racer-ron-rhodes/

Last edited by Dragula; 03/09/23 12:34 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: Dragula] #3127804
03/09/23 01:38 PM
03/09/23 01:38 PM
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NY
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Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: challenger451ci] #3127840
03/09/23 03:11 PM
03/09/23 03:11 PM
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On the parachute mount
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On the parachute mount
just add a small plate kit ..... shruggy


I know...... LMAO , im just being "that guy"

Props for keeping it all motor

The level your at now......info doesnt seem to come easy .
As already mentioned, get with a "good" shock guy and hopefully you get some help. ALSO 235 radial cars are right at your ET level, and yes they have a power adder but some are leaf spring cars and maybe some of that info can crossover to your program.
Are you data logging, and do you have rear shock sensors to see the travel as the car is going down the track??

AND ....nitrous cars dont add power down track, usually the kit is all in by .9 or less , so in reality you are pretty close to a 235 radial car

Last edited by n20mstr; 03/09/23 03:18 PM.

....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: WHITEDART] #3127859
03/09/23 03:53 PM
03/09/23 03:53 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Originally Posted by WHITEDART
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Landrum does leaf springs. Haven't talked to anyone at Calvert. Someone should be able to build a spring to spec.

Spring rate and compression at ride height. I'm not an expert but a low rate spring with enough arch to get it loaded and hold desired ride height will store more energy than a high rate spring that is deflected less..

More horsepower, gear, etc usually means less help needed from low rate springs to get the tire applied. i.e same car, same weight with a mild small block and automatic would get a different spring than a decent big block stick combo. Springs matter. They don't just hold the car up as some people think.
. You're thinking exactly the same way I am I'm just trying to figure out the best way to get there


DA shocks to control it all.

Maybe some fancy shocks to hold the housing out until you want them to release.

With some of the stuff I'm involved with now, I'm getting into OEM suspension stuff more than I have in the past. Same principles apply.

A spring - coil, leaf, torsion - all react the same to a change in rate and preload/compression at ride height.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 03/09/23 03:54 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: WHITEDART] #3127868
03/09/23 04:35 PM
03/09/23 04:35 PM
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
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Originally Posted by WHITEDART
Not anymore the business has sold I just don't think they have the technical background anymore


Shiloh,

Not sure where you heard that Cavert has sold but apparently it is not true.

I asked the company about it and this was their response:

"No sir, not true at all, John Calvert is still owner, he did move to
Arizona a year ago, so maybe that is why someone thinks this."

I have not used their customer service lately so I can't comment, it used to be excellent.

Bill

Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: 340Cuda] #3127887
03/09/23 06:26 PM
03/09/23 06:26 PM
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My theory is as stiff as possible on the front segment and soft on the rear. Kind of mimic what a ladder bar does with the front being stiff and the rear having the springs that hold up the car. All the rear segment would do is technically hold the car up.

Last edited by moparacer; 03/09/23 06:27 PM.

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68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
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Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: moparacer] #3127894
03/09/23 07:04 PM
03/09/23 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by moparacer
My theory is as stiff as possible on the front segment and soft on the rear. Kind of mimic what a ladder bar does with the front being stiff and the rear having the springs that hold up the car. All the rear segment would do is technically hold the car up.


I've wondered about using tubing for the front segment and the rear section from a calvert spring. It would eliminate the need for any type traction bar............I think.

Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: n20mstr] #3127955
03/09/23 10:31 PM
03/09/23 10:31 PM
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bean town ....Ca
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WHITEDART Offline OP
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Originally Posted by n20mstr
just add a small plate kit ..... shruggy


I know...... LMAO , im just being "that guy"

Props for keeping it all motor

The level your at now......info doesnt seem to come easy .
As already mentioned, get with a "good" shock guy and hopefully you get some help. ALSO 235 radial cars are right at your ET level, and yes they have a power adder but some are leaf spring cars and maybe some of that info can crossover to your program.
Are you data logging, and do you have rear shock sensors to see the travel as the car is going down the track??

AND ....nitrous cars dont add power down track, usually the kit is all in by .9 or less , so in reality you are pretty close to a 235 radial car

yeah working closely with mensker there shocks are on all four corners and have been back and forth a few times to tune them up.. yes we have racpak unfortunately we do not have travel sensors at this time however we do video under car often typically the problem is at the area that we want to work on is .3 to .4 typically. And I do agree with your statement regarding the 235 tire stuff. on a good track like Vegas or Sacramento a 1.12. 60 ft is common on the marginal tracks where I think we can be better.


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Leaf spring advancements [Re: 340Cuda] #3127957
03/09/23 10:33 PM
03/09/23 10:33 PM
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bean town ....Ca
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Originally Posted by 340Cuda
Originally Posted by WHITEDART
Not anymore the business has sold I just don't think they have the technical background anymore


Shiloh,

Not sure where you heard that Cavert has sold but apparently it is not true.

I asked the company about it and this was their response:

"No sir, not true at all, John Calvert is still owner, he did move to
Arizona a year ago, so maybe that is why someone thinks this."

I have not used their customer service lately so I can't comment, it used to be excellent.

Bill
I have been an advocate for Calvert for many years it has been noticed that there has been a change I guess

Last edited by WHITEDART; 03/09/23 10:34 PM.

In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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