Any anger on discussions of engine reliability should be directed to the true source - government.

Diesel reliability has gone down and maintenance costs up because the complete engine system is now ten times more complicated.

If Roger Penske could not sort out the problems of VM Motori diesels,
who could?

My two younger brothers struggle daily with today’s diesels.
Both, engineering grads,
both PE’s,
and both have watched diesel engines
of Cat, Cummins, Detroit, EMD, Kubota, Perkins, VW, Volvo
makes change for the worse since the 1970s.

If you used Deutz air cooled diesel trash pumps in the 1980s
and have to troubleshoot and repair today’s diesels
your brain will constantly be subconsciously angry.

Hmm, about half the size diesel engine (3.0L) doing as much work as the larger gas engine (5.7L) with better mileage, I'd say that was superior in regards to the above question.

What part of “turbo” do you not understand…..

Actually the turbo is one of the few parts on the Eco that hasn’t been problematic…. Good thing since step one of the repair is “see cab removal procedure”.

Fuel system hasn’t changed on the new gen Eco…. High psi fuel pump can still eat itself sending metal throughout the system (as proven on a 21 with 3100 miles…. only took 3mos to repair)

I have yet to see a Hemi owner put DEF in their gas tank….

Plastic gear on the intake runner is another “great design”…..

I will also note our scorecard of 16 engine replacements has seemed to plateaued as we haven’t seen one eat itself in nearly a year.

Pull trans to access crank sensor…. Brilliant!

Have people put DEF in their diesel fuel tanks accidently? I've been wondering what would happen if that mishap occurs?
It's been a real problem in aviation as some jets have experienced engine failures after def got into the jet fuel, which is similar to diesel fuel.
https://www.avweb.com/news/two-citation-flameouts-from-def-contaminated-fuel/
I work for a truck OEM, and after seeing the complexity of the systems in place today for emissions I have no desire to own a diesel vehicle. What a shame as pre 2010 it seemed like diesel was the only way to go.
I suppose if you don't keep vehicles long you can be like luxury car owners who buy cars like BMWs, just trade it in for a new one before the warranty runs our and then their high cost of maintenance isn't an issue for you!

What part of diesels having turbos escapes your attention? Can you name one new on the road passenger type diesel that does not come with one?

The point is, as delivered and in response to the specific question asked, the Eco setup is a match for the Hemi and gets better mileage, loaded or unloaded. Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant, no one takes a perfectly running vehicle with no issues to a mechanic to be fixed. So all you see is broke stuff. Not really representative and if you think the Hemi is without it's issues you are just being partisan.

Well for the record, I am not against diesels. No more than I am against EVs. In fact, all of my tractors and equipment are diesel powered. Diesel is clearly a superior engine in the right application when designed and built properly. But you keep wanting to put the Ecodiesel into the same category as the Cummins and that is not a fair comparison. The Cummins was and is a real, heavy duty engine that has shown over the decades to be a very desirably work horse. But even it is not for everybody. Who would argue otherwise?

We currently own 2 Ram trucks, both 5.7. If we had needed diesel power, we would have bought Cummins powered trucks. But, like most people/businesses, we don't need what the Cummins offers and they would be a cost detriment for us. They have their place, just not for what we do. And we have several local mechanics that are quite capable on the gas engines. We don't have anyone local that is good with diesels. As to the Italian Ecodiesel, given their poor track record, I would not want to be a guinea pig on this latest attempt to see if they finally got it right. Our next door neighbor has one and I have seen it on a flat bed at least twice. To be honest, I don't know what year it is. But no matter what, given it's track record, I would wait and see how others fare with it before I shell out tens of thousands of dollars on it.

You choose some interesting ways to figure costs. Most reviews figure the costs to be much higher.

"For fuel economy, Ram’s 3.0-liter V-6 turbodiesel makes sense in theory, but not in practice. It tows about 200 lb more than the V-8 and costs about $5,000 more. Its 280 hp and 480 lb-ft of torque make the grade and turn in 32-mpg highway ratings, but the payback would take decades." www.thecarconnection.com/overview/ram_1500_2022

"Regular gasoline-powered Ram 1500 pickup truck will be available for around $30,000. The 2022 Ram 1500 Diesel will cost more, around $6,000 above the regular price. The sales will begin later in 2021." https://2021pickuptrucks.com/2022-ram-1500-diesel

"The 2022 Ram 1500 Diesel will be priced below its rivals, which is another big advantage. FCA sells its pickup for $37,000 in the base configuration. Most the trim levels are offering a diesel upgrade. Compared to the base Pentastar engine, the oil-burner is going to add about $5,000 above a gasoline mill." https://2019trucks.com/2022-ram-1500-diesel


In sum, I am not at all against any power plant at the outset. Including the Ecodiesel. If it had a better dependability record along with lower operating and purchase costs, I would be fully onboard in the right application just like the Cummins. But it has NONE of those. And that is the reason, and is the only reason, that I would not recommend this engine for most applications.

Again, I hope you enjoy your Ram and I wish you luck.

Man I swear the issue at hand was “dependability”….. and I’ll score the HEMI (5.7 or 6.4) higher all day long right now. Honestly I have no dog in this fight. I could start a separate post on what a pos my 01 CTD was in stock form….. or how I feel for those unsuspecting driving around in their 19-20 Cummins with the CP4 pumps (recall is retrofit back to CP3 which is a godsend).

Master shake…. Yes DEF in the fuel does happen unfortunately. Makes a huge mess of things in the Eco or Cummins.

On the HD class 8 trucks I design driven by (mostly) professional drivers, the DEF tank is generally mounted in the open and obvious, and pretty clearly marked. When I see CTD Rams with both fillers in the same recess with much smaller caps mostly differentiated by cap color, that looked like a lot of errors waiting to happen.

Anything marketed with the verbiage of ECO or Green is a scam. Let the people that need to feel good about something buy them - spend your money more wisely.

You can try this. It should help out with the milage



https://ultrafuelsaver.com/

Most stuff gets good rating when new because people are comparing to their old cars that just don't feel as nice, don't have as fancy of stuff, don't have all the noises and issues the old car they needed to replace had so it seems great usually the first 3-5 years, after that the bad stuff starts coming up especially since they are going out of warranty. 5 to 10 years old is where the garbage gets sorted out (unless your a 2.7 dodge or 6.0 ferd).

My fuzzy memory is that the Motori V6 diesel was first used as a boat motor and was reliable.

Roger Penske, no slouch at diesel science, owned controlling interest in Motori at one point.

I wonder if some Italian trade magazine ever wrote an article sorta like: Everything ya ought to know about using and rebuilding the Motori V6 diesel?

Even the Cummins I6 hit the skids for a few years when the EPA convinced Cummins to go with the EPA’s extreme EGR NOx “solution” rather than DEF injection.

sample quote

VM Motori was founded by two entrepreneurs, Claudio Vancini and Ugo Martelli (hence the "VM") in 1947.
snip
In 1947, the company produced the first Italian air-cooled diesel engine with direct injection.

In 1964, the company introduced entire new families of air-cooled diesel engines for fishing boats and the industrial machine markets.

The year 1974 saw the introduction of a new series of high-speed (4,200 rpm) HR-series, pre-combustion chamber, water-cooled, turbocharged engines.

The Alfa Romeo Alfetta, produced in Arese, rolled off the line with a VM Motori engine under the bonnet in 1979, signaling VM's move to the OEM automotive market. This was Italy's first turbodiesel engine.[1] The engines still retained some maritime features, such as individual heads for each cylinder - a design which made it easier to produce different cylinder configurations.[9]

During the 1980s, British Leyland chose VM engines as the smoothest, most petrol-like units available for diesel models of their Range Rover and Rover SD1; the choice continued with the later Rover 800.

The Covini B24, T40 and C36 models all used VM Motori turbodiesel engines ranging from 4 to 6 cylinders.[10][11]

The after-cooled, electronic-combustion, "Turbotronic" engine was unveiled in 1990. It was supplied to Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, and Rover.

In 1995, when OEM automotive sales accounted for 75% of income, a major deal with Chrysler saw agreements to supply engines for their Jeep Grand Cherokee and Voyager (2.5-litre) models. VM Motori's 2.8-litre common rail turbodiesel engine was chosen for the Jeep Liberty CRD(Cherokee in Europe). The 2005 and later Chrysler Grand Voyager and 2012 model year Chevrolet Colorado

end quote

from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_Motori