3.0L Eco Diesel, Dependability

With rising fuel prices, has anyone considered trading in their 1/2 ton pickup and going to this 3.0 liter diesel in a 1500? The fuel economy is listed as 21 City and 28 highway.

Are there any draw backs? Anyone have any articles or bulletins positive or negative?

I'm considering it seeing as my 21 Rebel has never gotten better than 12.4 mpg.

Thanks,

I don't know if those motors have gotten any better, but they were known for spinning main bearings. Used good cranks go for $1200 or so. Really a site to see when spins every main.

i have said this before i work for a customer who exports trucks to the US from Canada. lots of them. ford dodge and chevy/gmc he does not care what brand as long as they are clean and he can turn a profit. he says there is only ONE truck he will not even look at for any price. eco diesel. i think that says a lot. From a guy who buys 200+ trucks a year thats probably good advice?

One of my friends is a tech at the local dealer and he has, literally, nothing good to say about that engine.

Here's a Google search that you might find interesting:

https://www.google.com/search?q=eco...77j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Mike.

Fuel mileage on a diesel has been greatly reduced due to emissions - when they go into re-gen - the mileage drops like a stone and then you have the cost of the DEF fluid - I would buy the 6.4 with the MDS before I would ever consider the eco diesel nothing but issues - A buddy bought one for his business he is now on his third motor and it has about 150,000 miles on it

ECO = Engine Coming Out

The additional cost spread between diesel fuel / gasoline, additional maintenance, and initial purchase cost of a diesel makes it very difficult to justify unless you need a diesel for serious towing and the eco would not be the best choice.
I have a 6.4 in a '21 PW (2500) and it gets 15ish mpg average some highway, some medium size city driving.

We have 2 chebbie duramax 3.0 diesels .. and they just bought another

1 has 68,000 on it. uses a quart of oil to every 1000 miles already

As long as you’re a long ways from where I work knock yourself out!

Wife wanted a Jeep Wrangler and the only one on the lot without all the high end options was an ecodiesel. DEF is cheaper at a pump, but she doesn't drive it enough to constantly be filling that up. She likes it, but it's also a lease. Figured lease it since I wasn't sure if we would like it or not. Maintenance and sometimes fuel is more expensive than a gas model, but was either diesel or electric hybrid on the lot. Nothing else she liked within 75 miles.

I think I'll stick with the Hemi for awhile.....

Thank You for the REAL reviews. Everything online praises these little engines so the input here really helps.

sticking with the hemi a good choice,had a few customerswith the 3.0 diesel none were happy.

What Gen Eco-diesel are all these comments on?

I purchased a 2020 (latest Eco, Gen 3) Rebel Eco to replace my 1999 Cummins 3/4 ton, manual. In 1999 my 3/4 ton was the towing king and today the Eco has very similar towing capacity, better HP, better torque, better acceleration and crazy fuel mileage. I drove from Phoenix to Salt Lake pulling an enclosed trailer with the Cuda and averaged 14 mpg, lots of mountains and no issues. Did the same trip not pulling and got 26.6 mpg. Around town it’s between 21 and 23 depending how I drive. (Rebel doesn’t have the best fuel mileage due to rear diff 3.92 gearing). Throw in that I have the optional 33 gal tank and my trip range is generally 700-800 miles. I can drive from PHX to Yuma, fill up on AZ price fuel, head into SanDiego/Carlsbad, visit family, and make it back to Yuma easily, avoiding the $5+ fuel rates!!!

Diesels come with a 100k warranty so if anything turns up it’ll be covered for a while and I can make the decision to get ride of it before it costs me any real $$, but for now, this truck is awesome!!! No 2nd hand story, I own one, the reviews on the latest Gen are all good, the forums are filled with glowing reviews and comments. To the point of some, previous versions were known to have issues. I suppose time will tell if history repeats or if issues have been corrected.

Here is a link to the EcoDiesel forum about fuel economy/costs. Bottom line is that for most drivers, the diesel will cost more to operate year in and year out. The fuel usually costs more, there's DEF, the oil changes are much more expensive, fuel filters, and any repairs that the diesel may need are usually much more expensive. And let's not forget that the diesel option is thousands more than the gas engine. Now, if this version of the diesel turns out to be a good engine then at least some of that cost may be recovered at trade time. But if not, then it could cost the owner even more money.

If you do a lot of towing or drive a truck lots of miles, the EcoDiesel could make financial sense, unless of course it doesn't turn out to be any better than it's predecessor in the long run. But for most of us, the EcoDiesel will be more expensive to drive than it's gas counterparts.

As to the Op's original question on reliability, this version is clearly better than the original model. But the original has a very poor reliability record so being better is not saying much. This version has only been out a couple of years, so the jury is still out on it.

The Ram forums are your best resource for all things Ram. Real world discussions on them.

www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/actual-cost-of-ecodiesel.68393

DaveRS23, all good points and certainly I would not recommend buying one as a means to save money. As you can see I tend to hold a vehicle for a long time, last one over 20 years, and my Cummins required no major repairs like a gas motor may see with increased mileage. I paid 32k for that truck and sold it 22 years later for 15k. Diesels tend to hold a greater resale than gas, particularly with increased miles, but again, not a good basis to purchase one, just a potential cost offset at the back end, a percentage of money recouped.

While I have enjoyed the benefit of increased mpg, I got the diesel because of towing and it’s superior performance to gas in these applications. I chose the baby diesel because it’s towing capacity exceeds my needs and is capable for most folks towing applications. Only the most serious of towing really need the crazy capacity a full size Cummins offers. Many that purchase these suffer average mpg and may never tow beyond the baby diesel weight

2015 Ecodiesel Ram here, not a ton of problems but recently the following were replaced under warranty.
Reluctor wheel
High pressure injection pump
6 injectors
DPF
I did have to pay $143 for a fuel filter
Mopar paid the dealer just short of 10k for the repairs.
This truck would have been sold a long time ago if I did not receive an extended warranty as a result of the emissions recall.

You bring an apples to oranges comparison to this when you compare the Cummins straight six diesel to the Italian V-6 Ecodiesel which has already had a less than stellar entrance to the American market. Good diesels have normally done well at resale time. That has not been true for the earlier Ecodiesels. Time will tell on this latest incarnation.

And you bring up that the Ecodiesel exceeds your needs. Then the 5.7 should too. After all, there is only 900 pounds difference in their tow ratings; 11,610lbs vs 12,560bls. www.ramtrucks.com/ram-1500/capability.html

You may like and want a diesel just because you like them. But this one only rarely makes real world economic sense. And as they age, we will see whether they ever make any sense economically or were just another Italian turd like the earlier ones.

Well based on your comments it appears you’re a hater. Come hook up a trailer with your Hemi and crawl from the desert through the mountains getting into SanDiego

So I'm a hater because facts and figures lead to a conclusion that you don't like? And you respond with juvenile name calling rather than with facts and figures that would support your position.

You love your choice of truck and that's fine. But emotions aside, in the cold light of objectivity it is not the best choice for most people. And time may tell that in fact it is a very poor choice. After all, that has happened before, hasn't it?

Surely you are not suggesting that it is only diesels that can do your "crawl from the desert through the mountains getting into San Diego"? I'll just bet that there are more gas engines doing that very job than there are diesels.

And one final question, if the Ecodiesel was so superior to the 5.7 gas for towing, why does the manufacturer only have a 900lb difference in capacity between them? That is less than an 8% difference.

Enjoy your choice in engines and I hope it works out for you.

No name calling, just stated you appear to be a diesel hater based on several of your comments
Diesels are traditionally better pullers when it comes to hill climbs under load.

Numbers work well;
Diesel and gas are currently the same price at my local station, $3.90gal
Eco Rebel 4X4 shows 24 mpg combined and an added $4995 for the EcoD
5.7 Hemi Rebel 4X4 shows 17 mpg combined and an added $2795 for the Hemi
So the diff in price is $2200
$2200 / $3.90 = 564.10 gal to the break even
If both vehicles travel 33k miles the Diesel will use 1375 gal where the Hemi will use 1941, or 566 gal more fuel (the break even to cover the motor)

Now yes there are incidentals like Def fluid and a higher oil change price, but I may be less prone to burn the rubber off tires than if I owned the Hemi.

Bottom line is that based on fuel alone it may take far less to break even than you may imagine.

As stated, dependability is yet to be proven, but with a 5 year/100k mi warranty over the 3 year 36k mi warranty I’ll have some added time/miles to tell.

Not looking to argue but it appears I’ve struck a nerve with you, I’m just offering a different perspective

Any anger on discussions of engine reliability should be directed to the true source - government.

Diesel reliability has gone down and maintenance costs up because the complete engine system is now ten times more complicated.

If Roger Penske could not sort out the problems of VM Motori diesels,
who could?

My two younger brothers struggle daily with today’s diesels.
Both, engineering grads,
both PE’s,
and both have watched diesel engines
of Cat, Cummins, Detroit, EMD, Kubota, Perkins, VW, Volvo
makes change for the worse since the 1970s.

If you used Deutz air cooled diesel trash pumps in the 1980s
and have to troubleshoot and repair today’s diesels
your brain will constantly be subconsciously angry.

Hmm, about half the size diesel engine (3.0L) doing as much work as the larger gas engine (5.7L) with better mileage, I'd say that was superior in regards to the above question.

What part of “turbo” do you not understand…..

Actually the turbo is one of the few parts on the Eco that hasn’t been problematic…. Good thing since step one of the repair is “see cab removal procedure”.

Fuel system hasn’t changed on the new gen Eco…. High psi fuel pump can still eat itself sending metal throughout the system (as proven on a 21 with 3100 miles…. only took 3mos to repair)

I have yet to see a Hemi owner put DEF in their gas tank….

Plastic gear on the intake runner is another “great design”…..

I will also note our scorecard of 16 engine replacements has seemed to plateaued as we haven’t seen one eat itself in nearly a year.

Pull trans to access crank sensor…. Brilliant!

Have people put DEF in their diesel fuel tanks accidently? I've been wondering what would happen if that mishap occurs?
It's been a real problem in aviation as some jets have experienced engine failures after def got into the jet fuel, which is similar to diesel fuel.
https://www.avweb.com/news/two-citation-flameouts-from-def-contaminated-fuel/
I work for a truck OEM, and after seeing the complexity of the systems in place today for emissions I have no desire to own a diesel vehicle. What a shame as pre 2010 it seemed like diesel was the only way to go.
I suppose if you don't keep vehicles long you can be like luxury car owners who buy cars like BMWs, just trade it in for a new one before the warranty runs our and then their high cost of maintenance isn't an issue for you!

What part of diesels having turbos escapes your attention? Can you name one new on the road passenger type diesel that does not come with one?

The point is, as delivered and in response to the specific question asked, the Eco setup is a match for the Hemi and gets better mileage, loaded or unloaded. Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant, no one takes a perfectly running vehicle with no issues to a mechanic to be fixed. So all you see is broke stuff. Not really representative and if you think the Hemi is without it's issues you are just being partisan.

Well for the record, I am not against diesels. No more than I am against EVs. In fact, all of my tractors and equipment are diesel powered. Diesel is clearly a superior engine in the right application when designed and built properly. But you keep wanting to put the Ecodiesel into the same category as the Cummins and that is not a fair comparison. The Cummins was and is a real, heavy duty engine that has shown over the decades to be a very desirably work horse. But even it is not for everybody. Who would argue otherwise?

We currently own 2 Ram trucks, both 5.7. If we had needed diesel power, we would have bought Cummins powered trucks. But, like most people/businesses, we don't need what the Cummins offers and they would be a cost detriment for us. They have their place, just not for what we do. And we have several local mechanics that are quite capable on the gas engines. We don't have anyone local that is good with diesels. As to the Italian Ecodiesel, given their poor track record, I would not want to be a guinea pig on this latest attempt to see if they finally got it right. Our next door neighbor has one and I have seen it on a flat bed at least twice. To be honest, I don't know what year it is. But no matter what, given it's track record, I would wait and see how others fare with it before I shell out tens of thousands of dollars on it.

You choose some interesting ways to figure costs. Most reviews figure the costs to be much higher.

"For fuel economy, Ram’s 3.0-liter V-6 turbodiesel makes sense in theory, but not in practice. It tows about 200 lb more than the V-8 and costs about $5,000 more. Its 280 hp and 480 lb-ft of torque make the grade and turn in 32-mpg highway ratings, but the payback would take decades." www.thecarconnection.com/overview/ram_1500_2022

"Regular gasoline-powered Ram 1500 pickup truck will be available for around $30,000. The 2022 Ram 1500 Diesel will cost more, around $6,000 above the regular price. The sales will begin later in 2021." https://2021pickuptrucks.com/2022-ram-1500-diesel

"The 2022 Ram 1500 Diesel will be priced below its rivals, which is another big advantage. FCA sells its pickup for $37,000 in the base configuration. Most the trim levels are offering a diesel upgrade. Compared to the base Pentastar engine, the oil-burner is going to add about $5,000 above a gasoline mill." https://2019trucks.com/2022-ram-1500-diesel


In sum, I am not at all against any power plant at the outset. Including the Ecodiesel. If it had a better dependability record along with lower operating and purchase costs, I would be fully onboard in the right application just like the Cummins. But it has NONE of those. And that is the reason, and is the only reason, that I would not recommend this engine for most applications.

Again, I hope you enjoy your Ram and I wish you luck.

Man I swear the issue at hand was “dependability”….. and I’ll score the HEMI (5.7 or 6.4) higher all day long right now. Honestly I have no dog in this fight. I could start a separate post on what a pos my 01 CTD was in stock form….. or how I feel for those unsuspecting driving around in their 19-20 Cummins with the CP4 pumps (recall is retrofit back to CP3 which is a godsend).

Master shake…. Yes DEF in the fuel does happen unfortunately. Makes a huge mess of things in the Eco or Cummins.

On the HD class 8 trucks I design driven by (mostly) professional drivers, the DEF tank is generally mounted in the open and obvious, and pretty clearly marked. When I see CTD Rams with both fillers in the same recess with much smaller caps mostly differentiated by cap color, that looked like a lot of errors waiting to happen.

Anything marketed with the verbiage of ECO or Green is a scam. Let the people that need to feel good about something buy them - spend your money more wisely.

You can try this. It should help out with the milage



https://ultrafuelsaver.com/

Most stuff gets good rating when new because people are comparing to their old cars that just don't feel as nice, don't have as fancy of stuff, don't have all the noises and issues the old car they needed to replace had so it seems great usually the first 3-5 years, after that the bad stuff starts coming up especially since they are going out of warranty. 5 to 10 years old is where the garbage gets sorted out (unless your a 2.7 dodge or 6.0 ferd).

My fuzzy memory is that the Motori V6 diesel was first used as a boat motor and was reliable.

Roger Penske, no slouch at diesel science, owned controlling interest in Motori at one point.

I wonder if some Italian trade magazine ever wrote an article sorta like: Everything ya ought to know about using and rebuilding the Motori V6 diesel?

Even the Cummins I6 hit the skids for a few years when the EPA convinced Cummins to go with the EPA’s extreme EGR NOx “solution” rather than DEF injection.

sample quote

VM Motori was founded by two entrepreneurs, Claudio Vancini and Ugo Martelli (hence the "VM") in 1947.
snip
In 1947, the company produced the first Italian air-cooled diesel engine with direct injection.

In 1964, the company introduced entire new families of air-cooled diesel engines for fishing boats and the industrial machine markets.

The year 1974 saw the introduction of a new series of high-speed (4,200 rpm) HR-series, pre-combustion chamber, water-cooled, turbocharged engines.

The Alfa Romeo Alfetta, produced in Arese, rolled off the line with a VM Motori engine under the bonnet in 1979, signaling VM's move to the OEM automotive market. This was Italy's first turbodiesel engine.[1] The engines still retained some maritime features, such as individual heads for each cylinder - a design which made it easier to produce different cylinder configurations.[9]

During the 1980s, British Leyland chose VM engines as the smoothest, most petrol-like units available for diesel models of their Range Rover and Rover SD1; the choice continued with the later Rover 800.

The Covini B24, T40 and C36 models all used VM Motori turbodiesel engines ranging from 4 to 6 cylinders.[10][11]

The after-cooled, electronic-combustion, "Turbotronic" engine was unveiled in 1990. It was supplied to Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, and Rover.

In 1995, when OEM automotive sales accounted for 75% of income, a major deal with Chrysler saw agreements to supply engines for their Jeep Grand Cherokee and Voyager (2.5-litre) models. VM Motori's 2.8-litre common rail turbodiesel engine was chosen for the Jeep Liberty CRD(Cherokee in Europe). The 2005 and later Chrysler Grand Voyager and 2012 model year Chevrolet Colorado

end quote

from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_Motori