Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: Dragula]
#3087091
10/18/22 09:23 AM
10/18/22 09:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I'd talk w/ Dwayne Porter before you jump ship and build a wedge. He spec'd my cam and springs. No issues here and we're using "similar" setups. I have DLI roller rockers, MP shafts, and MP stands on MP heads. You obviously have something wrong...whether it's the cam/spring combo or an oiling issue, I don't know.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#3087105
10/18/22 10:27 AM
10/18/22 10:27 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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OP
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I'd talk w/ Dwayne Porter before you jump ship and build a wedge. He spec'd my cam and springs. No issues here and we're using "similar" setups. I have DLI roller rockers, MP shafts, and MP stands on MP heads. You obviously have something wrong...whether it's the cam/spring combo or an oiling issue, I don't know. Well, my thinking is, if we test the other intake springs and find that they have fatigued as well, its an oiling issue for sure, which is what I am pretty sure it is...Last time, I broke 4 of them, all intake springs. We will look at the oil feed holes in the rockers and see what they look like with the valve covers off. The only fix will be the RB rockers....And I already have a cam on order with a milder ramp rate... I was on Indy's Facebook page, man those Predator engines make some steam....
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: Cuda340]
#3087126
10/18/22 11:36 AM
10/18/22 11:36 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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Randy,
What oil are you running? Hemi's need 20-50 to keep the oil in the top half. We run Penn Grade 20-50.......Pretty sure we are doing everything right, but ....this issue is not going away without changing somthing.
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: Dragula]
#3087156
10/18/22 01:20 PM
10/18/22 01:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 114 NW Indiana
powertrip
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NW Indiana
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I was on Indy's Facebook page, man those Predator engines make some steam....
I have to agree with you there, more power and problably better reliability than a Hemi.
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: powertrip]
#3087164
10/18/22 01:51 PM
10/18/22 01:51 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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If your problems are truly related to spring oiling, here is something that can be adapted without spending 5K, and it came from one of your threads:
I know who's engine that is....He used to frequent here a lot, then he sold that car. We talked about this, and I am not sure that would provide enough "spray" for a valve spring issue....might be good for push rod tips....I would have to try it. This is why I am shocked Indy or others do not make spray bar valve covers for a Hemi...
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#3087223
10/18/22 04:42 PM
10/18/22 04:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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I had spray bars in my Hemi in the Cuda. Never had any issues with it....
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: Dragula]
#3087236
10/18/22 05:21 PM
10/18/22 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
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Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
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Looking at your first picture. Can you drill a hole in the rocker arm that would direct oil to spray on the spring?
Does all the oil still return through the valley like a small block? Can you change the drainback to allow the covers to fill with more oil and make contact with the spring? I know the springs on my small block likely sit submerged in oil at highway RPM providing them good cooling. 8 drag weeks and no spring problems. My last set had 3 drag weeks over 5 years of racing and street driving. Likely only 4000-5000 miles because I don't drive it as much as I would like.
I wouldn't be afraid to spray bar oil them heavily on the street and use a valve to shut oil off the to the spray bars when you race.
Last edited by Bad340fish; 10/18/22 05:22 PM.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: Dragula]
#3087456
10/19/22 12:25 PM
10/19/22 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I'd talk w/ Dwayne Porter before you jump ship and build a wedge. He spec'd my cam and springs. No issues here and we're using "similar" setups. I have DLI roller rockers, MP shafts, and MP stands on MP heads. You obviously have something wrong...whether it's the cam/spring combo or an oiling issue, I don't know. Well, my thinking is, if we test the other intake springs and find that they have fatigued as well, its an oiling issue for sure, which is what I am pretty sure it is...Last time, I broke 4 of them, all intake springs. We will look at the oil feed holes in the rockers and see what they look like with the valve covers off. The only fix will be the RB rockers....And I already have a cam on order with a milder ramp rate... I was on Indy's Facebook page, man those Predator engines make some steam.... So you're going to change two things at once. If it solves the issue, great, but you'll never know what the cause really was. I'm leaning towards it being a cam/spring issue. You don't need rocker arms designed for a high rpm super stocker to keep a hemi alive on the street.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: Dragula]
#3087481
10/19/22 01:37 PM
10/19/22 01:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Bend,OR USA
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Did you groove the # 4 cam journal to oil the rockers full time. If not I would, you may need to add an oil passage restrictor to your rockers if they are needle bearing on the shafts to avoid flooding the heads
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/20/22 01:49 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: Dragula]
#3087553
10/19/22 06:04 PM
10/19/22 06:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 154 Canada
cuda499
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I think back and wonder if I had put a built 572 Wedge for this car instead of a Hemi, how many fewer times, would I have had to pull the engine for somthing like this? Probably never....Pretty frustrated to have to pull the engine every other year with so little run time on it. Half temped to sell it and build a Wedge motor cause the only thing I see solving this issue is a set of $5k Ray Barton rockers... I have the barton rockers, and they are jewelry forsure, but not the only answer..... So many things get overlooked, like prime the engine with covers off to see how well oil is getting to the spring. was the spring close to coil bind? was the spring not compressed enough? did you just check a spec sheet or did you actually measure it..... because if you measured it i would be willing to bet it has less lift then you may think. There is some deflection in rocker gear. It can be done, I know because I have done it. Four years ago I competed in a drag and drive event with a cam that was .791 lift and @50 it was 282intake and 300exh, in the event we did over 350 miles in 2 days. Not huge, but i drove the car like that for years without an issue for years, and my new cam is bigger. I had norris steel rockers on a indy 1RA cylinder head. I didn't use any oil restrictors and had -10AN drain backs in back of each head.
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: cuda499]
#3087645
10/19/22 11:07 PM
10/19/22 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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Tulsa OK
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That is a great point about measured lift vs what is on the card. The difference from my cam card to the lift at the retainer is rather large. Large enough that If I was shimming the spring off of the card I would hardly have been in the zip code of the right shim pack.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: Bad340fish]
#3087790
10/20/22 01:00 PM
10/20/22 01:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563 Motor City
6PKRTSE
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That is why I like my RBRE rocker system. It has built in oilers within the bars. I have over .800 lift and street drive mine all over.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Found it!....Stupid Hemi
[Re: 6PKRTSE]
#3087792
10/20/22 01:08 PM
10/20/22 01:08 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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That is why I like my RBRE rocker system. It has built in oilers within the bars. I have over .800 lift and street drive mine all over. And the holes in the gold spray bar are pointed right at the intake springs, correct?
Last edited by Dragula; 10/20/22 01:09 PM.
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