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Has Comp fixed their cams? #3079451
09/21/22 09:37 PM
09/21/22 09:37 PM
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I know Comp had problems not too long ago with their cams eating lobes. Have they straightened this out or are they still junk?


I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #3079492
09/22/22 04:07 AM
09/22/22 04:07 AM
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From what I’ve heard from a source in the Dallas area, failure rate is up to about 25% on cams right now. The cores we get from China are junk. I bet it’s the lifters as well. Sell your soul to the devil and it will come back to haunt you.

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: fastmark] #3079516
09/22/22 07:20 AM
09/22/22 07:20 AM
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Wonder how many of those ponied up for the nitriding, used EDM lifters, and did a correct break-in procedure. Everyone will blame the cam first. twocents
Not saying there aren't issues, but...


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Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3079522
09/22/22 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Wonder how many of those ponied up for the nitriding, used EDM lifters, and did a correct break-in procedure. Everyone will blame the cam first. twocents
Not saying there aren't issues, but...


Never used to have to do all that. Which points right back at the cam as delivered.

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Sniper] #3079526
09/22/22 07:48 AM
09/22/22 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Wonder how many of those ponied up for the nitriding, used EDM lifters, and did a correct break-in procedure. Everyone will blame the cam first. twocents
Not saying there aren't issues, but...


Never used to have to do all that. Which points right back at the cam as delivered.

Agreed. up Nevertheless, those things should still be considered. It's not just a Comp Cams thing though.
The materials today are what they are...so you should expect to do things a little differently. Adapt and overcome.


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'71 Demon 340
'73 Chrysler New Yorker
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Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3079533
09/22/22 08:08 AM
09/22/22 08:08 AM
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At a 25% failure rate, shouldn't the cam grinder take stronger action than to only 'offer' additional services? Something like a strong declaration as to the failure rate without the additional services. Or better yet, make those additional steps inclusive. It would seem to me that the only reason to NOT include those additional and more costly services would because the additional costs would lead to a decline in sales.

In other words, the cam grinder has a responsibility to educate and inform their customers on the issues. Not everyone is up on cam core technology and manufacture.


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Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: fastmark] #3079544
09/22/22 08:46 AM
09/22/22 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by fastmark
From what I’ve heard from a source in the Dallas area, failure rate is up to about 25% on cams right now. The cores we get from China are junk. I bet it’s the lifters as well. Sell your soul to the devil and it will come back to haunt you.


Didn't the problems already exist with US cam cores (CWC etc.)?

Here's what Mike Jones (Jones Cams) has to say about nitriding of cams:

Quote
I've been saying for years, when you nitride a cast iron cam, the process reduces the core hardness of the material. You end up with a very hard, but thin outer layer, but the backing material is now much softer. The hard shell. helps with break-in, but the after a while the softer backing material gives way, and the hard shell starts to flake off. As soon as that starts, your cam is toast.

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=767730#p767730

and

Quote
(On nitriding) Yes, it can make the cam brittle.
And it can also cause flaking on the lobes.

We've been nitriding flat tappet cams for years(I use the same heat treater as my biggest competitor), and I only reccommend it, when there is no other options.


https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/vi...162b80591d2fb569e9ae0876072e3de6#p248246

I didn't get my Comp Cam (XS282S) nitrated but haven't installed it yet. Got Howards EDM lifters though.

Last edited by DGS; 09/22/22 08:52 AM.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: DaveRS23] #3079610
09/22/22 11:19 AM
09/22/22 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23
At a 25% failure rate, shouldn't the cam grinder take stronger action than to only 'offer' additional services? Something like a strong declaration as to the failure rate without the additional services. Or better yet, make those additional steps inclusive. It would seem to me that the only reason to NOT include those additional and more costly services would because the additional costs would lead to a decline in sales.

In other words, the cam grinder has a responsibility to educate and inform their customers on the issues. Not everyone is up on cam core technology and manufacture.


up Except when they are more interested in profits and competing with lower priced offerings. It is sad as Comp used to be the go to and not worry.
I wonder what Blueprint engines is doing or who they might be using, unless they are making them in house.

ironically enough I had a call from a younger guy two days ago with a freshly built flat tappet motor. He's fully trained on the newer cars etc. Helped his cousin build a 351up using all kinds of hi-po parts. He wanted to bring it in for tuning as it was backfiring through the carb and not running right. As usual I ask a series of questions to get a feel for what I might be getting into.
He had no clue about zinc additives, the 20 minute 2-3k RPM run in, single spring break in on performance cams, or anything else related to flat tappet cams. eek shock
He said it started fine and after about 5 or 10 minutes started missing a bit and with further run time started backfiring through the carb.

I told him I strongly suspected he may have lost a lobe or two and educated him a bit on flat tappet cams. He said he had gone to school and been working at a dealership for about 5 years but did not recall anything being taught in school on flat tappet cams. whistling
I asked if he had checked for coil bind? what's that he replied?
I told him to pull the valve covers and start inspecting the valvetrain for broken springs, rocker arms, pushrods or lack of movement/lift.

So, maybe some of the failures ARE in fact due to the end user as flat tappets are becoming somewhat like what took place with wheel bearings.

Ball bearings were common place and cheap but required maintenance. Timken's were far superior but expensive to produce. In the mid to late 60's or so, the use of Timken's became more commonplace and as manufacturing technology advanced the price on them dropped and the ball bearings became much more expensive. Along with the changeover to Timken's came different installation and set up procedures
Sorry for the rambling, I'm getting old LOL beer

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: DaveRS23] #3079656
09/22/22 01:41 PM
09/22/22 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveRS23
At a 25% failure rate, shouldn't the cam grinder take stronger action than to only 'offer' additional services? Something like a strong declaration as to the failure rate without the additional services...

You know, if that number is true, it's attrocious. But heck, let's cut them some slack and assume it's actually better, say 5% failure rate...is that really "better" though???

I mean who out there, any of us for that matter, would accept an airline ticket with a 5% failure rate? How about municipal water services that guarantee you only 5% of your water being un-consumable? ...what about a bank that tells you about 5% of your transactions will fail???

Yeah, so I am purposely being dramatic here, but hasn't anyone at these companies ever studied SixSigma prinicples? (we are talking here 0.00034% failure rate)

I'm an IT person by profession, my products (software and interfaces) use these kind of metrics...so why can't an Engineering & Manufacturing company apply them?

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Diplomat360] #3079660
09/22/22 01:57 PM
09/22/22 01:57 PM
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Okay, how about Isky cams? What has everyone been using that lasts?. I agree, 25% failure rate is unacceptable.


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Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #3079687
09/22/22 03:29 PM
09/22/22 03:29 PM
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i'm not a comp cams lover but i really have to wonder how much of the failure rate is due to folks wanting more aggressive profiles. at what point is enough enough? why don't some of these grinders just say no to this? people want a flat tappet hydraulic to perform like a solid, wanting solids to perform like rollers and unreliable roller profiles with crazy spring pressures. i doubt a true 25% failure rate but i don't use them because of reliability issues i've had. i'm satisfied with the slower more reliable lobes and if someone's car is quicker than mine then so be it. at least i'm working on my junk. wiping some lobes is like crapping the bed; helluva mess to clean up.

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: lewtot184] #3079694
09/22/22 04:03 PM
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I wish I had to worry about Comp Cam failures, lol. I drive a flathead six, if I want a hot rod cam I have to send mine out to be reground and guess what? They heat treat the regrind. So why Comp recommends nitriding is beyond me. maybe they should get a better supplier for their cores.

Of course even the hot rod flathead cam is a broomstick and the springs are very light. So that plays into it.

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Sniper] #3079713
09/22/22 05:24 PM
09/22/22 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
maybe they should get a better supplier for their cores.


So you think they have a choice. Who do you recommend?

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: lewtot184] #3079717
09/22/22 05:38 PM
09/22/22 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lewtot184
i'm not a comp cams lover but i really have to wonder how much of the failure rate is due to folks wanting more aggressive profiles. at what point is enough enough? why don't some of these grinders just say no to this? people want a flat tappet hydraulic to perform like a solid, wanting solids to perform like rollers and unreliable roller profiles with crazy spring pressures. i doubt a true 25% failure rate but i don't use them because of reliability issues i've had. i'm satisfied with the slower more reliable lobes and if someone's car is quicker than mine then so be it. at least i'm working on my junk. wiping some lobes is like crapping the bed; helluva mess to clean up.


Here is what will happen, they will simply stop offering flat tappet cams.

Last edited by BSB67; 09/22/22 05:38 PM.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: BSB67] #3079721
09/22/22 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BSB67
Originally Posted by Sniper
maybe they should get a better supplier for their cores.


So you think they have a choice. Who do you recommend?



When your supplier is crap and you can't find better guess what? You do it yourself. They'd be better off taking OEM cores out of junkyard and redoing those.

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Sniper] #3079722
09/22/22 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by BSB67
Originally Posted by Sniper
maybe they should get a better supplier for their cores.


So you think they have a choice. Who do you recommend?



When your supplier is crap and you can't find better guess what? You do it yourself. They'd be better off taking OEM cores out of junkyard and redoing those.



Yep. that's what Comp should do, go to junk yards.

Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: BSB67] #3079725
09/22/22 05:58 PM
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When is not to long ago ? - Supposedly that these issues started time frame ?


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Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: bee1971] #3079729
09/22/22 06:21 PM
09/22/22 06:21 PM
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UTG has several videos on this subject. Seems popular opinion is it's more lifters than camshaft related. They blame the oil or the customer for failures, but many pro engine shops do cam break-ins by the book and still have issues anyways eventually.

Some lifters do not have the crown cut just right + they leak oil. Recommendation was to inspect/measure each lifter, pressure test it for leaking, and also that it drops into the bores and rotates smoothly.

Also read some people saying these cam companies may be taking the box of bad lifters people send back to them and doing a light tune up grind/re-polish on the ones that are not too bad and then selling those as new again.

Last edited by Neil; 09/22/22 06:22 PM.
Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: Neil] #3079735
09/22/22 06:38 PM
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I had two Comp Cams mild hydraulic flat tappets wipe lobes within 20 minutes. I've been doing this for 45 years as a professional so I know what I'm doing. I did everything right and they still wiped lobes, the Summit cam before them had no problems. Comp replaced both of them and I returned the new cams to Summit or Jegs for credit and went roller. No more wiped lobes, but retrofit hydraulic rollers were a whole nother fuster cluck and I bought Morels because they are supposed to be good lifters and they are the same height as the stock magnum lifters. I swapped to magnum heads at the same time. Anyway 3 of the Morels weren't machined properly and wouldn't oil the rockers. Finally got that fixed, after paying for two more pairs of lifters plus overnight shipping, again. They are still noisy though.


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Re: Has Comp fixed their cams? [Re: BSB67] #3079748
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Originally Posted by BSB67
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by BSB67
Originally Posted by Sniper
maybe they should get a better supplier for their cores.


So you think they have a choice. Who do you recommend?



When your supplier is crap and you can't find better guess what? You do it yourself. They'd be better off taking OEM cores out of junkyard and redoing those.



Yep. that's what Comp should do, go to junk yards.


OEM flat tappet cams never had a 25% failure rate. As a core for a quality regrind OEM cams are better choice than the crap CC is using now.

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