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Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? #3078078
09/17/22 11:34 AM
09/17/22 11:34 AM
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Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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In the brainstorming sessions right now for my car, I already have Viking shocks on order, and have a few things to try with the tuneup and some weight reduction as well. Hoping to get from 11.30's to ~10.80's, thinking I have a couple tenths in tuning left on the table but then still need to make up a couple tenths from there.

My motor has ported 906's on it (I think flowed 260 cfm @ 0.600?) with Harland Sharp rockers, 590 MP cam, an 850 Holley, TRW forged 6 pack replacement pistons, and an Edelbrock TM7 intake on it. It also has 1 3/4" Hooker headers - it looks like the largest available anywhere are 1 7/8" TTI's but they're also $1000 and I'm not sure the extra 1/8" is worth the investment.

From what I understand ported 906's eventually crack, and mine have been ported ands on this engine in 2 different cars for at least 20 years, so I'm assuming they're on borrowed time, so I'm shopping for replacements.

It looks like the 440 source heads have a straight plug, and so do the Edelbrock 5093 E-Streets. Are the E-Street heads still made in the USA? And do they have similar potential as a CNC ported Stealth? Does anyone have a CNC program for the Edelbrocks these days? I know Modern did but I haven't heard of anybody using them since the original owner died. I've searched a bunch and the 440 source heads sound like they have issues with pushrod clearance that requires grinding, and either head will require touchup of the valve guides and valve job, plus the retainers/locks on the Stealths also need to be replaced.

The Trick Flows on paper seem like a no-brainer but I don't think they'll work with my headers, and multiple people have indicated they're sensitive to the camshaft, so I'd probably need to do pushrods/rockers/cam as well in addition to just the head swap, and if I went that route I'd go 512 stroker with a new rotating assembly anyway. My shortblock is fine, I had the pan off last year and all of the bearings looked great. It would turn a $3000 project into a $12000 project, lol

Does Indy have any straight plug BB Mopar heads? The EZ's appear to be angled as well, and I assume the -1's and bigger also are angled.

Also figuring I'm not going to get any benefit from just a head swap to either the 440 source or E-Streets on my combo unless they get a decent port job on them. What do you guys think? Will I pick up enough from ported Edelbrocks or are the headers/carb/intake a bottleneck? Are there any other straight plug head options?

Thanks!


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3078090
09/17/22 12:09 PM
09/17/22 12:09 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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KG engines in OH has a cnc program for the Ede heads.

I will have some of those coming here in the near future to have the guide and seat work done.
I’ll flow the finished product of course.

There is another couple of straight plug options........ but I wouldn’t recommend going there.
Stage 6 and B1BS.

I’d consider the 1-3/4” headers to be something that will hold the power back.
Even on my stock 906 headed 383, going from 1-3/4 headers to 1-7/8 was a nice gain.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3078140
09/17/22 02:43 PM
09/17/22 02:43 PM
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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i have 2" tti's and angle plug edelbrocks on one of my cars; works well. easier access to plugs than iron straight plug heads.

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: lewtot184] #3078186
09/17/22 06:06 PM
09/17/22 06:06 PM
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birdtracker Offline
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My Trick Flow heads suprised me with the power they make. You are correct that it will take good rockers. I bought Harland Sharp and would do it all over again. I used PAC valve springs and would buy the heads knowing the valve springs are going to need replaced. Absolutely will get you where your goal is. I went with a some what mild .690 roller. AND I think the Comp .650 flat tappet would make some serious steam.what we need is someone with a dyno and take a 12-1 engine with trick flows and test a bunch of camshafts to find out were the power is. Birdtracker

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: birdtracker] #3078260
09/17/22 11:41 PM
09/17/22 11:41 PM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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The set of 440 source heads I bought ised needed valves and guides to be right. The press fir on the guides was scary and the valve stems measured like a fun house mirror. Figure you will have as much in the source heads as a set of trick flows to make them move air and not be a time bomb. My advice would be to by the source heads bare and do your own due diligence. 600hp n/a no problem. A good set of factory appearing aluminium heads would have decent resale value also if you upgraded at the next short block.



Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Jeremiah] #3078301
09/18/22 08:21 AM
09/18/22 08:21 AM
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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Why so much negativity for B1BS? They make good compression, and Brodix is good stuff.

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: B1MAXX] #3078305
09/18/22 08:34 AM
09/18/22 08:34 AM
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pittsburghracer Offline
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Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Why so much negativity for B1BS? They make good compression, and Brodix is good stuff.




My guess is a lot of guys haven’t seen what they are capable of. I know of a local 68 charger going 8.50’s with them. 5.50’s in the 1/8.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: pittsburghracer] #3078315
09/18/22 08:58 AM
09/18/22 08:58 AM
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Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX Offline
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When I built my first big block for my car I used them, stock block /crank Ross flat tops, and the .690 roller. Another racer had a mega block 499 with 440-1 heads built by very reputable shop. And we ran the same times 10.0-10.10's

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: pittsburghracer] #3078317
09/18/22 09:00 AM
09/18/22 09:00 AM
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Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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I 3rd the B1bs.
Also like birdtracker’s suggestion.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: TRENDZ] #3078334
09/18/22 09:37 AM
09/18/22 09:37 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I guess no one who is advocating for the b1bs is considering the application here.
My suspicion here is that the c body headers aren’t going to play that well with the raised exhaust ports.

Additionally, they’re really not that good ootb, and require quite a bit of porting to flow on par with for example....... ootb TF240’s.
And they’re not inexpensive to begin with, and require special rockers.

For the OP’s build....... they really aren’t the best option.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3078364
09/18/22 10:41 AM
09/18/22 10:41 AM
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Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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Blusmbl  Offline OP
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Thanks guys, I definitely value the input- and Dwayne - you hit the nail on the head. Really curious on your results of the CNC ported Edelbrocks, thanks!

I'm worried that the raised exhaust port is not going to work with the C body headers. My car still has power steering and power brakes- there is a mile of room on the passenger side but the driver's side is quite tight, if the exhaust port was raised any it looks like the headers will hit the power steering box. I also think with the flat top pistons I have, the compression would go from pump gas friendly to needing to run E-85 at a minimum with the small chamber B1 BS's.

My car is just a weekend cruiser that I occasionally drive to the track and eventually want to do drag and drive events, so a bunch of the choices are already compromised. The 440 source or E Street heads seem most attractive to me since it *should* pick up a couple tenths and I'd also be able to reuse my cam, pushrods, rockers, intake and headers, although it sounds like moving from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" headers is worth the investment too. The 590 cam is ancient but is gentle on valvetrain parts for street driving.

I don't have the budget to do a stroker with Trick Flows and custom headers right now, and I don't think I want the car to be quicker than mid-high 10's anyway.

Last edited by Blusmbl; 09/18/22 10:44 AM.

'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Jeremiah] #3078368
09/18/22 10:43 AM
09/18/22 10:43 AM
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Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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Blusmbl  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jeremiah
The set of 440 source heads I bought ised needed valves and guides to be right. The press fir on the guides was scary and the valve stems measured like a fun house mirror. Figure you will have as much in the source heads as a set of trick flows to make them move air and not be a time bomb. My advice would be to by the source heads bare and do your own due diligence. 600hp n/a no problem. A good set of factory appearing aluminium heads would have decent resale value also if you upgraded at the next short block.


This also sounds like a good idea. Do the Edelbrocks have this type of fit/finish issues or are they typically a little better?


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3078374
09/18/22 11:01 AM
09/18/22 11:01 AM
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Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
I guess no one who is advocating for the b1bs is considering the application here.
My suspicion here is that the c body headers aren’t going to play that well with the raised exhaust ports.

Additionally, they’re really not that good ootb, and require quite a bit of porting to flow on par with for example....... ootb TF240’s.
And they’re not inexpensive to begin with, and require special rockers.

For the OP’s build....... they really aren’t the best option.

Agree x 100

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3078376
09/18/22 11:03 AM
09/18/22 11:03 AM
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HardcoreB Offline
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Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Thanks guys, I definitely value the input- and Dwayne - you hit the nail on the head. Really curious on your results of the CNC ported Edelbrocks, thanks!

I'm worried that the raised exhaust port is not going to work with the C body headers. My car still has power steering and power brakes- there is a mile of room on the passenger side but the driver's side is quite tight, if the exhaust port was raised any it looks like the headers will hit the power steering box. I also think with the flat top pistons I have, the compression would go from pump gas friendly to needing to run E-85 at a minimum with the small chamber B1 BS's.

My car is just a weekend cruiser that I occasionally drive to the track and eventually want to do drag and drive events, so a bunch of the choices are already compromised. The 440 source or E Street heads seem most attractive to me since it *should* pick up a couple tenths and I'd also be able to reuse my cam, pushrods, rockers, intake and headers, although it sounds like moving from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" headers is worth the investment too. The 590 cam is ancient but is gentle on valvetrain parts for street driving.

I don't have the budget to do a stroker with Trick Flows and custom headers right now, and I don't think I want the car to be quicker than mid-high 10's anyway.

I have a pair of B1Bs heads you can use to mock-up and see if they work. But I like about every other option for many of the reasons stated already. Let me know call text or PM.

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: pittsburghracer] #3078459
09/18/22 01:31 PM
09/18/22 01:31 PM
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moparx Offline
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Why so much negativity for B1BS? They make good compression, and Brodix is good stuff.




My guess is a lot of guys haven’t seen what they are capable of. I know of a local 68 charger going 8.50’s with them. 5.50’s in the 1/8.




is that car orange [or was at one time] by chance ?
beer

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: moparx] #3078464
09/18/22 01:51 PM
09/18/22 01:51 PM
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pittsburghracer Offline
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Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Why so much negativity for B1BS? They make good compression, and Brodix is good stuff.




My guess is a lot of guys haven’t seen what they are capable of. I know of a local 68 charger going 8.50’s with them. 5.50’s in the 1/8.




is that car orange [or was at one time] by chance ?
beer



No it’s been blue for many many years and raced weekly. Tim’s Toy.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: HardcoreB] #3078571
09/18/22 07:57 PM
09/18/22 07:57 PM
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Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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Blusmbl  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by HardcoreB
I have a pair of B1Bs heads you can use to mock-up and see if they work. But I like about every other option for many of the reasons stated already. Let me know call text or PM.


Appreciate it! Went to look at it and I don't think any raised port head is going to work. I'm not sure how far up they're moved on the B1-BS but it's looking like anything more than ~1/2" wouldn't work. If the driver's side is moved up any, one of the tubes will hit the starter, and on the passenger side if they're raised up a tube is going to hit the torsion bar.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: pittsburghracer] #3078739
09/19/22 01:23 PM
09/19/22 01:23 PM
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moparx Offline
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Why so much negativity for B1BS? They make good compression, and Brodix is good stuff.




My guess is a lot of guys haven’t seen what they are capable of. I know of a local 68 charger going 8.50’s with them. 5.50’s in the 1/8.




is that car orange [or was at one time] by chance ?
beer



No it’s been blue for many many years and raced weekly. Tim’s Toy.


ok, thanks.
way back, late 70's, early 80's maybe, i remember an orange charger that [at that time] was running 9.60's/9.70's, and was wondering if that car had gotten faster using today's advancements in engine/transmission technology.
beer

Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3078754
09/19/22 02:09 PM
09/19/22 02:09 PM
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Anchorage, Alaska
metallicareload Offline
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Something one might consider is some aluminum heads move the exhaust flange about an 1/8” of an inch out per head, so 1/4” total.


440, 4-Speed, 3.54
1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
Re: Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads? [Re: Blusmbl] #3078765
09/19/22 02:30 PM
09/19/22 02:30 PM
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Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner Offline
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The E-Street heads have powdered metal valve seats,they don't recommend them for solid cam use.I think that is part of their price point vs the RPM head.

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