Best option for straight plug big block cylinder heads?

In the brainstorming sessions right now for my car, I already have Viking shocks on order, and have a few things to try with the tuneup and some weight reduction as well. Hoping to get from 11.30's to ~10.80's, thinking I have a couple tenths in tuning left on the table but then still need to make up a couple tenths from there.

My motor has ported 906's on it (I think flowed 260 cfm @ 0.600?) with Harland Sharp rockers, 590 MP cam, an 850 Holley, TRW forged 6 pack replacement pistons, and an Edelbrock TM7 intake on it. It also has 1 3/4" Hooker headers - it looks like the largest available anywhere are 1 7/8" TTI's but they're also $1000 and I'm not sure the extra 1/8" is worth the investment.

From what I understand ported 906's eventually crack, and mine have been ported ands on this engine in 2 different cars for at least 20 years, so I'm assuming they're on borrowed time, so I'm shopping for replacements.

It looks like the 440 source heads have a straight plug, and so do the Edelbrock 5093 E-Streets. Are the E-Street heads still made in the USA? And do they have similar potential as a CNC ported Stealth? Does anyone have a CNC program for the Edelbrocks these days? I know Modern did but I haven't heard of anybody using them since the original owner died. I've searched a bunch and the 440 source heads sound like they have issues with pushrod clearance that requires grinding, and either head will require touchup of the valve guides and valve job, plus the retainers/locks on the Stealths also need to be replaced.

The Trick Flows on paper seem like a no-brainer but I don't think they'll work with my headers, and multiple people have indicated they're sensitive to the camshaft, so I'd probably need to do pushrods/rockers/cam as well in addition to just the head swap, and if I went that route I'd go 512 stroker with a new rotating assembly anyway. My shortblock is fine, I had the pan off last year and all of the bearings looked great. It would turn a $3000 project into a $12000 project, lol

Does Indy have any straight plug BB Mopar heads? The EZ's appear to be angled as well, and I assume the -1's and bigger also are angled.

Also figuring I'm not going to get any benefit from just a head swap to either the 440 source or E-Streets on my combo unless they get a decent port job on them. What do you guys think? Will I pick up enough from ported Edelbrocks or are the headers/carb/intake a bottleneck? Are there any other straight plug head options?

Thanks!

KG engines in OH has a cnc program for the Ede heads.

I will have some of those coming here in the near future to have the guide and seat work done.
I’ll flow the finished product of course.

There is another couple of straight plug options........ but I wouldn’t recommend going there.
Stage 6 and B1BS.

I’d consider the 1-3/4” headers to be something that will hold the power back.
Even on my stock 906 headed 383, going from 1-3/4 headers to 1-7/8 was a nice gain.

i have 2" tti's and angle plug edelbrocks on one of my cars; works well. easier access to plugs than iron straight plug heads.

My Trick Flow heads suprised me with the power they make. You are correct that it will take good rockers. I bought Harland Sharp and would do it all over again. I used PAC valve springs and would buy the heads knowing the valve springs are going to need replaced. Absolutely will get you where your goal is. I went with a some what mild .690 roller. AND I think the Comp .650 flat tappet would make some serious steam.what we need is someone with a dyno and take a 12-1 engine with trick flows and test a bunch of camshafts to find out were the power is. Birdtracker

The set of 440 source heads I bought ised needed valves and guides to be right. The press fir on the guides was scary and the valve stems measured like a fun house mirror. Figure you will have as much in the source heads as a set of trick flows to make them move air and not be a time bomb. My advice would be to by the source heads bare and do your own due diligence. 600hp n/a no problem. A good set of factory appearing aluminium heads would have decent resale value also if you upgraded at the next short block.

Why so much negativity for B1BS? They make good compression, and Brodix is good stuff.

My guess is a lot of guys haven’t seen what they are capable of. I know of a local 68 charger going 8.50’s with them. 5.50’s in the 1/8.

When I built my first big block for my car I used them, stock block /crank Ross flat tops, and the .690 roller. Another racer had a mega block 499 with 440-1 heads built by very reputable shop. And we ran the same times 10.0-10.10's

I 3rd the B1bs.
Also like birdtracker’s suggestion.

I guess no one who is advocating for the b1bs is considering the application here.
My suspicion here is that the c body headers aren’t going to play that well with the raised exhaust ports.

Additionally, they’re really not that good ootb, and require quite a bit of porting to flow on par with for example....... ootb TF240’s.
And they’re not inexpensive to begin with, and require special rockers.

For the OP’s build....... they really aren’t the best option.

Thanks guys, I definitely value the input- and Dwayne - you hit the nail on the head. Really curious on your results of the CNC ported Edelbrocks, thanks!

I'm worried that the raised exhaust port is not going to work with the C body headers. My car still has power steering and power brakes- there is a mile of room on the passenger side but the driver's side is quite tight, if the exhaust port was raised any it looks like the headers will hit the power steering box. I also think with the flat top pistons I have, the compression would go from pump gas friendly to needing to run E-85 at a minimum with the small chamber B1 BS's.

My car is just a weekend cruiser that I occasionally drive to the track and eventually want to do drag and drive events, so a bunch of the choices are already compromised. The 440 source or E Street heads seem most attractive to me since it *should* pick up a couple tenths and I'd also be able to reuse my cam, pushrods, rockers, intake and headers, although it sounds like moving from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" headers is worth the investment too. The 590 cam is ancient but is gentle on valvetrain parts for street driving.

I don't have the budget to do a stroker with Trick Flows and custom headers right now, and I don't think I want the car to be quicker than mid-high 10's anyway.

This also sounds like a good idea. Do the Edelbrocks have this type of fit/finish issues or are they typically a little better?

Agree x 100

I have a pair of B1Bs heads you can use to mock-up and see if they work. But I like about every other option for many of the reasons stated already. Let me know call text or PM.

is that car orange [or was at one time] by chance ?

No it’s been blue for many many years and raced weekly. Tim’s Toy.

Appreciate it! Went to look at it and I don't think any raised port head is going to work. I'm not sure how far up they're moved on the B1-BS but it's looking like anything more than ~1/2" wouldn't work. If the driver's side is moved up any, one of the tubes will hit the starter, and on the passenger side if they're raised up a tube is going to hit the torsion bar.

ok, thanks.
way back, late 70's, early 80's maybe, i remember an orange charger that [at that time] was running 9.60's/9.70's, and was wondering if that car had gotten faster using today's advancements in engine/transmission technology.

Something one might consider is some aluminum heads move the exhaust flange about an 1/8” of an inch out per head, so 1/4” total.

The E-Street heads have powdered metal valve seats,they don't recommend them for solid cam use.I think that is part of their price point vs the RPM head.

Edelbrock hasn’t used powdered metal seats in any heads in at least a couple of years.

I've got a manual steering box for a C body...2 actually
I thought I might need to fit turbos but I made do.
Borgeson box is a popular swap now, we put one in my brother's charger to not have to beat up the headers.

b1 heads are junk stay far away from them.had 3 motors with them.ran faster with indy sr heads.my next motor will have indy heads.plus indy heads are racer friendly.dont need special everything like b-1 heads.also b-1 heads are heavy.b-1 heads are not fot the budget racer

KG did my Eddy Performer RPM heads. The work looked good except for a little clean up needed around the valve guides.
I don't have before and after flow bench comparison.

If the E-street heads are the same as RPM minus the plug angle mine might be a good example of the work.

I had to use 4.5" bore head gaskets to clear the chamber. That means there's a bit of a step down into the 4.375 bore.

For a stock stroke combo, if going with the KG porting on Ede heads...... I’d forgo the chamber porting.
They don’t need to be made any bigger.

As a footnote....... new, assembled, unported B1BS heads are a touch over $3k now.

Good call, I don't think I want to give up any compression. The cnc port work looks good but Dwayne's flow bench will tell the tale! Will be really curious to see if their program is as good as what Modern used on the Stealths and Edelbrocks.



I'm worried with how nose heavy the car is that the manual box would be a pain to steer, but I'm tempted for the weight savings alone. I drove a '67 Imperial with no power steering belt for about 3 months but that was absolutely brutal, lol.

It looks like the steering box isn't the tight spot though, the starter is. I need to pick up the TTI 1 7/8" headers to see how different they are compared to the Hookers.

Thanks guys!

I've got the TTi C body headers but the engine is still on the stand.

The MCH program removes a pretty substantial amount of material.
The intake port ends up with 15cc more volume than a TF240(240 vs 255).

At this point, I don’t know what the runner volume of the KG program is....... but I’ll measure one when they get here.

Do the KG CNC heads get a better valve job than the OOB E heads come with? That's a helluva sharp lip under (above the valve) the exhaust seat in the pics above...

Let’s just say, regarding the heads in the pics........ I think there is “some” additional flow available by finessing what’s going on around the valve seats.
Whether that ended up being 1cfm or 10cfm could only be determined by testing.

Assuming the valve seat config doesn’t hold it back, it certainly “looks” like the intake port is 300cfm capable.

I’m pretty sure the ones coming to me will still have the Ede VJ.

I've had the opposite results on B1 heads compare to Indy SR, Indy 440-1 with their stock rocker arms single shaft set ups and a lot better results comparing CNC ported 440- 1 to a set of original B1 with their single shaft set up on engine dyno testing as well as at the track racing them : : work:
I had the same thing(results) on a 426 street hemi motor compared to B1 motors, blown 484 C.I. 426 street Hemi motor with a Little Field 10:71 roots type blower dyno tested made 924 HP at 7300 RPM after a lot of tuning on the dual Carb Shop 1050 CFM blower carbs compared to a cast B1 intake with a single Dam Best 1450 CFM carb making 920 HP at 7000 RPM
Flow tests reveal 370 CFM at 28.0 inches at .700 valve lift on the 440-1 intakes and the B1 heads on the same bench flowed 430 CFM at .700, .800 and at .900 lift
Sorry for your bad results, who prepared your heads?

Inoperative power steering steers way more difficult than manual steering. Can't compare the two.

300 seems like a realistic number, compared to what 440 Source was claiming for their CNC port jobs, where it was up in the 320 range.

I'm guessing 300 is a solid 40 cfm above what I have now, so the 2 hp per cfm rule would be an 80 horse gain on my shortblock, but I'm going to be limited by potentially the carb and possibly the headers if I don't upgrade... so it's maybe a 50 hp improvement going to ported Edelbrocks over my 906's. That should get me 3 tenths according to the Wallace calculators, and I'd be happy with that.



True, between the p/s ratio being quicker and also still trying to move fluid around in the box, it's not a fair comparison. I have gone from power to manual on my '68 Charger though, and it wasn't bad. This has an easy 300+ extra pounds on the nose so I'm not sure how much worse it would be.

if you do go with 440 source heads, as was said earlier in this discussion , get a bare set, the source valves were not up to what I would use ever again.

That's it guys, hit the gym...let's go

Alright, I'll be totally upfront, I think I wasted everybody's time with this- I'm sorry. Did more investigating on the TTI 1 7/8" headers and there is a special note on the C body fitment guide that they work with angle plug heads, and list Indy EZ's, the angle plug Edelbrock RPM's, and Trick Flows. The B body notes indicate only their 2" headers fit with angled plugs, but the C body 1 7/8" ones do.

If the 1 3/4" headers are going to hold a head swap back, and the new headers fit angled plug heads, I really don't think I can justify a CNC ported Stealth or E-Street when an OOTB Trick Flow 240 is a better head in pretty much every measurable category and near the same price point, plus have room to grow if I ever go with a 512 kit in the future.

The 2 horsepower per cfm is doable but keep in mind if the heads are flowing 300 cfm@.700 and you are running a .550 lift cam you aren’t using the available horsepower.

FWIW, I'm using tti 1 7/8" headers with Trick Flow heads in a B-body. The TTI headers were a huge improvement over the Hedman 1 3/4" headers RE fitting around the spark plugs

We do have the CNC ported Stealth heads in stock with Modern's ports. Cost is $999 per head.

https://store.440source.com/Stealth...EMBLED-SINGLE-HEAD/productinfo/200-1080/