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Re: vapor locking
[Re: b body idiot]
#3049588
06/11/22 08:33 AM
06/11/22 08:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,391
Az
69hemibeep
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,391
Az
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Are you using the vapor separator and return line that came with 440's and hemi's ?
1969 Hemi Roadrunner 2nd owner
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: TJP]
#3049724
06/11/22 05:22 PM
06/11/22 05:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,433
St. Charles, MO
wingman
Uncreative Title
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Uncreative Title
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,433
St. Charles, MO
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I had good luck with the Edelbrock carb baseplate insulating gasket. They are cheap and don't add much height.
Anything you can do to keep heat from the engine from moving into the carb won't hurt.
1969 Dodge Coronet Super Bee 383 A4
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 440 FC7 (sold)
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: wingman]
#3049727
06/11/22 05:36 PM
06/11/22 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,593
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,593
So Cal
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What does you engine compartment fuel routing situation look like right now? Lines flopped over too close or touching intake, block, etc can get hot faster. Bend or support line away from heat sources. All my metal lines in the engine compartment have heat insulation on them. And they are routed as far as possible from heat sources. I run cheap California ethanol high evaporative gas with mechanical fuel pump and no pressure regulator. Never had issue and drive in 90+ degree heat at times. May insulated fuel line does rub across that breather tube. But it's actually made out of PVC and a long path from valve cover. It doesn't retain heat. When I replace it with a metal breather crossover, I'll put some distance between the two. ![[Linked Image]](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7904458-3_9_11Sm09.JPG)
Last edited by autoxcuda; 06/11/22 11:19 PM.
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: 440_Offroader]
#3049898
06/12/22 12:07 PM
06/12/22 12:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 679
Los Osos, Ca
CKessel
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 679
Los Osos, Ca
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This has been a popular subject for remedies and bandaids to nullify the vapor lock issue. One poster on the FBBO forum found that the current ethanol added fuels, especially here in Cali with more added chemicals, start boiling at around 150*. Think about that. Your engine is running anywhere from 170* to 220*+ just in the coolant. Add in the extra heat from what the exhaust, external surface area of the engine, accessories etc generate to add on top of what your gauge shows. Since the boiling point of the fuel is way lower it seems the venting systems that used to work now cannot keep up with the extra vapor pressure being generated. If you are able to get unadulterated gas, that would be your best bet otherwise you'll need to see what others have done to get around the situation. Like adding EFI to your ride.
Last edited by CKessel; 06/12/22 12:10 PM.
Carl Kessel
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: autoxcuda]
#3049932
06/12/22 01:45 PM
06/12/22 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,960
Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,960
Omaha Ne
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The insulated fuel line on the small block looks nice and clean. However, the 440 has the distributor in that area, which makes routing more challenging. What kind of line insulation is it BTW? ThermoTec. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-18050?rrec=trueAeroquip, Earls, etc sell it too. My concern with the above recommendations is that none of the companies responded to my requests for data on the effectiveness of their products. IE: With A carbureted system,120 degree fuel in a steel line passes by a heat source like an exhaust manifold that is radiating 800 degree heat for 2 feet. The line is X inches away. and the flow rate is Y under the same controlled conditions The fuel exit temperature without your product is ? A The fuel exit temperature WITH you product is? B Keeping in mind that with a carbureted system some of the fuel may be sitting next to that manifold while idling or cruising so the flow rate is critical especially at lower speeds / idling. While I realize it may be hard to give a clear answer as there are many variables involved but a few "Static laboratory tests" would show / prove the effectiveness of their product. I compare them to the thermal sleeves on spark plug wires that work for a short time. They do accomplish what they were marketed to do though, and that is GET $$ form your wallet to THEIRSThe one method that does work but is a PITA to implement is to run a return line to the tank with a restricted ID that will keep the unused fuel moving back to the tank while maintaining adequate pressure at WOT. This is why the fuel injected vehicles don't have issues. 
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: TJP]
#3049939
06/12/22 02:23 PM
06/12/22 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,593
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,593
So Cal
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The insulated fuel line on the small block looks nice and clean. However, the 440 has the distributor in that area, which makes routing more challenging. What kind of line insulation is it BTW? ThermoTec. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-18050?rrec=trueAeroquip, Earls, etc sell it too. My concern with the above recommendations is that none of the companies responded to my requests for data on the effectiveness of their products. IE: With A carbureted system,120 degree fuel in a steel line passes by a heat source like an exhaust manifold that is radiating 800 degree heat for 2 feet. The line is X inches away. and the flow rate is Y under the same controlled conditions The fuel exit temperature without your product is ? A The fuel exit temperature WITH you product is? B Keeping in mind that with a carbureted system some of the fuel may be sitting next to that manifold while idling or cruising so the flow rate is critical especially at lower speeds / idling. While I realize it may be hard to give a clear answer as there are many variables involved but a few "Static laboratory tests" would show / prove the effectiveness of their product. I compare them to the thermal sleeves on spark plug wires that work for a short time. They do accomplish what they were marketed to do though, and that is GET $$ form your wallet to THEIRSThe one method that does work but is a PITA to implement is to run a return line to the tank with a restricted ID that will keep the unused fuel moving back to the tank while maintaining adequate pressure at WOT. This is why the fuel injected vehicles don't have issues. Did you go to manufacturers website specs? Aeroquip, Parker, etc. https://specialtyhose.com/index_htm_files/Protective%20Sleeving%20eng%20bulletin.pdfhttps://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3299Aeroquip Heavy-Duty Firesleeve (Orange), per Inch
Firesleeve is great for protecting hoses or wires from heat, flame or abrasion. The thick, braided fiberglass tubing is covered with reddish-orange silicone rubber for a continuous operating temperature rating of -65° F to 500° F and short-term protection against 2000° flames.
All sizes (except 0.31") meet the fire resistance requirements of FAA TSO-C53a and TSO-C75 when properly installed. Aeroquip Firesleeve (0.44" and larger) is an NHRA-approved brake line covering.
Price is per inch. Maximum continuous length 120 inches I don’t have a return line, don’t have electric fuel pump, run lousy gas…. And I don’t have a vapor lock problem. Not sure I can mathematically pick out one golden egg, fail safe fix item. The sleeve is $30 and the fuel line used to bend was under $20
Last edited by autoxcuda; 06/12/22 05:06 PM.
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: Sniper]
#3050070
06/13/22 02:14 AM
06/13/22 02:14 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,846
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,846
Bend,OR USA
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buy better gasoline   Answers without a solution are useless. Some don't have the option of buying better gasoline. I bought some really bad regular gasoline in the summer (August after 12.00 noon) of 1980 in Barstow, CA on the way to Las Vegas for a bracket race from a cheapo station, it was horrible on vapor locking, I ended up tying a rag around the gas line from the mechanical fuel pump up to the carb and sprayed it with water from my garden sprayer that I used to cool down the race car radiator between rounds. It would go about 5 miles and start vapor locking again   That was a 1957 Dodge one ton truck with a race car hauler ramp and storage compartment with a later model Poly 318 motor in it. That started at the bottom of the Baker grade on Hwy 15, that grade is right at 17 miles long to the top  A old timer told me later to take wood clothes pins and put them on the gas line to the carb.help keep it cool, that work very well  
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/13/22 02:17 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3050081
06/13/22 06:46 AM
06/13/22 06:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,187
Walton, Indiana
TimS
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,187
Walton, Indiana
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Most of my past vapor locking issues have led me to the fuel pump push rod. The rod over time wears on one or both ends, shortens up, and doesn’t allow a full pump lever stroke. Assuming you still have the mechanical pump installed.
1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: b body idiot]
#3050112
06/13/22 09:35 AM
06/13/22 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,310
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,310
A gulag near you.
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I have a 69 Superbee 440 , 4spd. having vapor locking problems any ideas on fixing problem would help . What carb and intake and air cleaner on the engine ? 10-15% ethanol fuel ? Is the heat crossover in the intake blocked ?
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
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Re: vapor locking
[Re: b body idiot]
#3050117
06/13/22 09:40 AM
06/13/22 09:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,794
Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,794
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Since this setup has been working reliably for a while, and you encountered problems only recently, I am guessing that the responses so far are probably much closer to the real root-cause. However, I will share my experience with this problem since no one has mentioned this as the possible culprit so far.
Small block, mechanical fuel pump, carb bowl vent line to the charcoal can and vapour return line to the tank, Carter TQ (9800 series) carb. I had meticulously set up the carb prior to getting this thing on the engine. Point being: bowl vent was functional, etc., etc.
Well, as I got the car running and kept on adjusting things eventually that caused my fuel bowl vent the get out of whack, result being: car was a bear to start as soon as I would have it sitting for as little as 10-15 mins.
At first I thought maybe it was just my fast ignition curve with about 23 deg. initial timing, but the starter wasn't fighting me...so what's next? Well, I went back to the basics, re-checked things and sure enough found out that my bowl wasn't venting anymore. Fixed that (super easy on the TQ), and went back to enjoying the car.
No heat wrapping anywhere, just a 3/8" fuel line feeding "da beast" lol
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