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vapor locking #3049579
06/11/22 08:17 AM
06/11/22 08:17 AM
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kentucky
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b body idiot Offline OP
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I have a 69 Superbee 440 , 4spd. having vapor locking problems any ideas on fixing problem would help .

Re: vapor locking [Re: b body idiot] #3049588
06/11/22 08:33 AM
06/11/22 08:33 AM
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Az
69hemibeep Offline
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Are you using the vapor separator and return line that came with 440's and hemi's ?


1969 Hemi Roadrunner 2nd owner
Re: vapor locking [Re: 69hemibeep] #3049589
06/11/22 08:44 AM
06/11/22 08:44 AM
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kentucky
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b body idiot Offline OP
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Yes its been on the car for about 5yrs was wondering if it needed replaced. Also wondering if its because of the fuel .

Re: vapor locking [Re: b body idiot] #3049653
06/11/22 12:47 PM
06/11/22 12:47 PM
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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if the return line and vapor separator are working properly then check fuel pressure and pump rod. the hipo 440's used a high pressure 2 valve pump, not the standard (383, lopo 440) 2 valve pump. the standard pump may only do 3psi.

Re: vapor locking [Re: b body idiot] #3049658
06/11/22 01:05 PM
06/11/22 01:05 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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if you're using ethanol based fuel it does have a lower boiling point than traditional fuel. An electric pump out back helps as well as trying to get the lines and carb isolated from heat sources as much as possible. Especially if the line runs past the intake heat crossover. old tale says wooden clothes pins work but never tried them
Don't know about the thermal wraps but I'm a bit sketchy on them. I've requested data ( temp measurements) from several suppliers with no response whistling beer

Re: vapor locking [Re: TJP] #3049724
06/11/22 05:22 PM
06/11/22 05:22 PM
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St. Charles, MO
wingman Offline
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I had good luck with the Edelbrock carb baseplate insulating gasket. They are cheap and don't add much height.

Anything you can do to keep heat from the engine from moving into the carb won't hurt.

Re: vapor locking [Re: wingman] #3049727
06/11/22 05:36 PM
06/11/22 05:36 PM
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Posts: 27,131
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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What does you engine compartment fuel routing situation look like right now?

Lines flopped over too close or touching intake, block, etc can get hot faster. Bend or support line away from heat sources.

All my metal lines in the engine compartment have heat insulation on them. And they are routed as far as possible from heat sources. I run cheap California ethanol high evaporative gas with mechanical fuel pump and no pressure regulator. Never had issue and drive in 90+ degree heat at times.

May insulated fuel line does rub across that breather tube. But it's actually made out of PVC and a long path from valve cover. It doesn't retain heat. When I replace it with a metal breather crossover, I'll put some distance between the two.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by autoxcuda; 06/11/22 11:19 PM.
Re: vapor locking [Re: autoxcuda] #3049787
06/11/22 09:49 PM
06/11/22 09:49 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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One could try fabbing an aluminum plate that would lay over the heat cross over area running the length of the fuel line. I'm thinking a drop in plate that would lock itself in place but be easily removed at shows 9with gloves wink

Re: vapor locking [Re: autoxcuda] #3049892
06/12/22 11:46 AM
06/12/22 11:46 AM
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Alberta
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440_Offroader Offline
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The insulated fuel line on the small block looks nice and clean. However, the 440 has the distributor in that area, which makes routing more challenging. What kind of line insulation is it BTW?

Re: vapor locking [Re: 440_Offroader] #3049898
06/12/22 12:07 PM
06/12/22 12:07 PM
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Los Osos, Ca
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CKessel Offline
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This has been a popular subject for remedies and bandaids to nullify the vapor lock issue. One poster on the FBBO forum found that the current ethanol added fuels, especially here in Cali with more added chemicals, start boiling at around 150*. Think about that. Your engine is running anywhere from 170* to 220*+ just in the coolant. Add in the extra heat from what the exhaust, external surface area of the engine, accessories etc generate to add on top of what your gauge shows. Since the boiling point of the fuel is way lower it seems the venting systems that used to work now cannot keep up with the extra vapor pressure being generated. If you are able to get unadulterated gas, that would be your best bet otherwise you'll need to see what others have done to get around the situation. Like adding EFI to your ride.

Last edited by CKessel; 06/12/22 12:10 PM.

Carl Kessel
Re: vapor locking [Re: 440_Offroader] #3049900
06/12/22 12:15 PM
06/12/22 12:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,131
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Originally Posted by 440_Offroader
The insulated fuel line on the small block looks nice and clean. However, the 440 has the distributor in that area, which makes routing more challenging. What kind of line insulation is it BTW?


ThermoTec. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-18050?rrec=true

Aeroquip, Earls, etc sell it too.

Re: vapor locking [Re: autoxcuda] #3049932
06/12/22 01:45 PM
06/12/22 01:45 PM
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Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Originally Posted by autoxcuda
Originally Posted by 440_Offroader
The insulated fuel line on the small block looks nice and clean. However, the 440 has the distributor in that area, which makes routing more challenging. What kind of line insulation is it BTW?


ThermoTec. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-18050?rrec=true

Aeroquip, Earls, etc sell it too.


My concern with the above recommendations is that none of the companies responded to my requests for data on the effectiveness of their products. IE:
With A carbureted system,120 degree fuel in a steel line passes by a heat source like an exhaust manifold that is radiating 800 degree heat for 2 feet. The line is X inches away. and the flow rate is Y under the same controlled conditions
The fuel exit temperature without your product is ? A
The fuel exit temperature WITH you product is? B
Keeping in mind that with a carbureted system some of the fuel may be sitting next to that manifold while idling or cruising so the flow rate is critical especially at lower speeds / idling.

While I realize it may be hard to give a clear answer as there are many variables involved but a few "Static laboratory tests" would show / prove the effectiveness of their product.
I compare them to the thermal sleeves on spark plug wires that work for a short time. They do accomplish what they were marketed to do though, and that is GET $$ form your wallet to THEIRS

The one method that does work but is a PITA to implement is to run a return line to the tank with a restricted ID that will keep the unused fuel moving back to the tank while maintaining adequate pressure at WOT.
This is why the fuel injected vehicles don't have issues. beer

Re: vapor locking [Re: TJP] #3049939
06/12/22 02:23 PM
06/12/22 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,131
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by autoxcuda
Originally Posted by 440_Offroader
The insulated fuel line on the small block looks nice and clean. However, the 440 has the distributor in that area, which makes routing more challenging. What kind of line insulation is it BTW?


ThermoTec. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-18050?rrec=true

Aeroquip, Earls, etc sell it too.


My concern with the above recommendations is that none of the companies responded to my requests for data on the effectiveness of their products. IE:
With A carbureted system,120 degree fuel in a steel line passes by a heat source like an exhaust manifold that is radiating 800 degree heat for 2 feet. The line is X inches away. and the flow rate is Y under the same controlled conditions
The fuel exit temperature without your product is ? A
The fuel exit temperature WITH you product is? B
Keeping in mind that with a carbureted system some of the fuel may be sitting next to that manifold while idling or cruising so the flow rate is critical especially at lower speeds / idling.

While I realize it may be hard to give a clear answer as there are many variables involved but a few "Static laboratory tests" would show / prove the effectiveness of their product.
I compare them to the thermal sleeves on spark plug wires that work for a short time. They do accomplish what they were marketed to do though, and that is GET $$ form your wallet to THEIRS

The one method that does work but is a PITA to implement is to run a return line to the tank with a restricted ID that will keep the unused fuel moving back to the tank while maintaining adequate pressure at WOT.
This is why the fuel injected vehicles don't have issues. beer


Did you go to manufacturers website specs? Aeroquip, Parker, etc.

https://specialtyhose.com/index_htm_files/Protective%20Sleeving%20eng%20bulletin.pdf

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3299
Quote
Aeroquip Heavy-Duty Firesleeve (Orange), per Inch

Firesleeve is great for protecting hoses or wires from heat, flame or abrasion. The thick, braided fiberglass tubing is covered with reddish-orange silicone rubber for a continuous operating temperature rating of -65° F to 500° F and short-term protection against 2000° flames.

All sizes (except 0.31") meet the fire resistance requirements of FAA TSO-C53a and TSO-C75 when properly installed. Aeroquip Firesleeve (0.44" and larger) is an NHRA-approved brake line covering.

Price is per inch. Maximum continuous length 120 inches



I don’t have a return line, don’t have electric fuel pump, run lousy gas…. And I don’t have a vapor lock problem.

Not sure I can mathematically pick out one golden egg, fail safe fix item. The sleeve is $30 and the fuel line used to bend was under $20


Last edited by autoxcuda; 06/12/22 05:06 PM.
Re: vapor locking [Re: b body idiot] #3049955
06/12/22 02:56 PM
06/12/22 02:56 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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buy better gasoline scope twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: vapor locking [Re: Cab_Burge] #3049960
06/12/22 03:12 PM
06/12/22 03:12 PM
Joined: May 2019
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nowhere
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Sniper Offline
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
buy better gasoline scope twocents


Answers without a solution are useless.

Some don't have the option of buying better gasoline.

Re: vapor locking [Re: Sniper] #3050070
06/13/22 02:14 AM
06/13/22 02:14 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
buy better gasoline scope twocents


Answers without a solution are useless.

Some don't have the option of buying better gasoline.

I bought some really bad regular gasoline in the summer (August after 12.00 noon) of 1980 in Barstow, CA on the way to Las Vegas for a bracket race from a cheapo station, it was horrible on vapor locking, I ended up tying a rag around the gas line from the mechanical fuel pump up to the carb and sprayed it with water from my garden sprayer that I used to cool down the race car radiator between rounds. It would go about 5 miles and start vapor locking again rant puke That was a 1957 Dodge one ton truck with a race car hauler ramp and storage compartment with a later model Poly 318 motor in it.
That started at the bottom of the Baker grade on Hwy 15, that grade is right at 17 miles long to the top whiney
A old timer told me later to take wood clothes pins and put them on the gas line to the carb.help keep it cool, that work very well boogie up scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/13/22 02:17 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: vapor locking [Re: Cab_Burge] #3050081
06/13/22 06:46 AM
06/13/22 06:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,168
Walton, Indiana
TimS Offline
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Most of my past vapor locking issues have led me to the fuel pump push rod. The rod over time wears on one or both ends, shortens up, and doesn’t allow a full pump lever stroke. Assuming you still have the mechanical pump installed.


1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
Re: vapor locking [Re: TimS] #3050086
06/13/22 07:48 AM
06/13/22 07:48 AM
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lewtot184 Offline
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both of my cars are street driven. one runs at very reasonable temps during the summer and the other runs hotter than i like. both use carter 6903 pumps and return lines. my '69 rt uses the factory style and my 65 coronet uses something i made. i do use heat insulator gaskets for both cars and neither has ever had a hint of vapor lock. the alcohol in pump gas is a real pump gas problem with no solutions. i think the only real solution is adequate fuel pressure and a way to push the vapors out of the fuel line no matter mechanical or electric pump. basically, don't dead head the fuel line.

Re: vapor locking [Re: b body idiot] #3050112
06/13/22 09:35 AM
06/13/22 09:35 AM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted by b body idiot
I have a 69 Superbee 440 , 4spd. having vapor locking problems any ideas on fixing problem would help .


What carb and intake and air cleaner on the engine ?

10-15% ethanol fuel ?

Is the heat crossover in the intake blocked ?


running up my post count some more .
Re: vapor locking [Re: b body idiot] #3050117
06/13/22 09:40 AM
06/13/22 09:40 AM
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Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline
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Since this setup has been working reliably for a while, and you encountered problems only recently, I am guessing that the responses so far are probably much closer to the real root-cause. However, I will share my experience with this problem since no one has mentioned this as the possible culprit so far.

Small block, mechanical fuel pump, carb bowl vent line to the charcoal can and vapour return line to the tank, Carter TQ (9800 series) carb. I had meticulously set up the carb prior to getting this thing on the engine. Point being: bowl vent was functional, etc., etc.

Well, as I got the car running and kept on adjusting things eventually that caused my fuel bowl vent the get out of whack, result being: car was a bear to start as soon as I would have it sitting for as little as 10-15 mins.

At first I thought maybe it was just my fast ignition curve with about 23 deg. initial timing, but the starter wasn't fighting me...so what's next? Well, I went back to the basics, re-checked things and sure enough found out that my bowl wasn't venting anymore. Fixed that (super easy on the TQ), and went back to enjoying the car.

No heat wrapping anywhere, just a 3/8" fuel line feeding "da beast" lol

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