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Indy 400-I4 t ram mod #3030833
04/05/22 09:04 AM
04/05/22 09:04 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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A well known Mopar shop told me their is a mod for this tunnel that is worth some ET. You remove the plenum divider and add a 1/2" plenum spacer. Has anyone here performed any mods on this t ram with good results. Was told the mod was good for 2 tenths in their car. Post pics if you have any. Thanks

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: mopar dave] #3030838
04/05/22 09:11 AM
04/05/22 09:11 AM
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Always heard the Indy hemi tunnelrams had very small plenums and almost all combos benefit from a 1/2" or taller plenum spacer. I imagine the wedge tunnelrams are in the same boat.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8 sec street car
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'73 Chrysler New Yorker
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3030859
04/05/22 10:20 AM
04/05/22 10:20 AM
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Going to try this, having a 9/16 phenolic spacer machined up very soon.


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 4:10's and 10.5s. .
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: Tig] #3030894
04/05/22 12:15 PM
04/05/22 12:15 PM
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6PKRTSE Offline
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Originally Posted by Tig
Going to try this, having a 9/16 phenolic spacer machined up very soon.

I fabbed up some 1/2" thick anti-reverson plates for under my carbs and also 1/2" thick delrin/nylon insulator/spacer for my tunnel ram. If you look closely it is the white portion between the intake and top plate. I made several and tried none and up to 4 spacers on dyno with no significant power or torque improvements over not having any. Choose to just use the one to help keep the top plate and carbs cooler.

IMG_8664.jpg

1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: 6PKRTSE] #3030898
04/05/22 12:24 PM
04/05/22 12:24 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I understand the plenum divider needs to be removed as well. Requires some welding.

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: mopar dave] #3030917
04/05/22 01:10 PM
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What does that manifold look like inside?
How big is the plenum?
What size carbs did they use?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: mopar dave] #3030987
04/05/22 03:49 PM
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Harry's Taxi 2 Online content
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I removed mine as shown here. I didn't remove as much as I originally intended due to my lack of welding skills causing repeated cracks when cooling. The divider is hollow and requires about 1 1/2" of fill weld. (I'd suggest finding a good welder)


As for how much it helped or hurt, I have no idea as this is a new build waiting on parts.

I also made a 1/2 nylon spacer with a flat 3/8 top plate so the carbs could be shifted forward a little.




HPIM0966.JPG
Last edited by Harry's Taxi 2; 04/05/22 03:56 PM.

'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.

NOS-used when losing since 1940.

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: Harry's Taxi 2] #3031004
04/05/22 05:24 PM
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Hmmm my TR seems to be different as mine has no divider.

20211106_144238.jpg
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: rebel] #3031012
04/05/22 06:08 PM
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I've seen some older ones that don't have the divider. They also seem to have more symmetrical runners...although that may be at the expense of throttle bore to runner entrance alignment.

Do you have a side view or down runner picture?


'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.

NOS-used when losing since 1940.

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: Cab_Burge] #3031092
04/05/22 11:53 PM
04/05/22 11:53 PM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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Pic

CC6FDD95-4A32-4C9C-8CFC-3683623D5BD3.jpeg
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: Harry's Taxi 2] #3031112
04/06/22 04:44 AM
04/06/22 04:44 AM
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Tig Offline
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No divider on mine (IIRC)


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 4:10's and 10.5s. .
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: mopar dave] #3031116
04/06/22 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
Pic


That's what mine looked like before. I'd like to see that view from rebel's


'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.

NOS-used when losing since 1940.

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: Harry's Taxi 2] #3031118
04/06/22 06:30 AM
04/06/22 06:30 AM
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This is mine as cast. I measured the port from the point it starts to form the port, to the size at the flange base, its 3x larger at the plenum.

20210830_154750.jpg
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: mopar dave] #3031121
04/06/22 06:57 AM
04/06/22 06:57 AM
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fbs63 Offline
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Removing the divider alone increases plenum volume. Really depends on the cid of the engine its going on. I've done it on a Hemi manifold. Didn't back to back test it though.

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: Harry's Taxi 2] #3031134
04/06/22 08:53 AM
04/06/22 08:53 AM
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Tig Offline
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It seems Indy re-designed them. Not exactly sure which way round chronologically, I think maybe the later T/R's have less bolts for the top ?.
It seems my memory is incorrect, mine DOES have a divider. Date on the photo's are from roughly when it was purchased and kindly sent by Todd Marsh (Sasquatch) many moons ago.

Originally Posted by 6PKRTSE
Originally Posted by Tig
Going to try this, having a 9/16 phenolic spacer machined up very soon.

I fabbed up some 1/2" thick anti-reverson plates for under my carbs and also 1/2" thick delrin/nylon insulator/spacer for my tunnel ram. If you look closely it is the white portion between the intake and top plate. I made several and tried none and up to 4 spacers on dyno with no significant power or torque improvements over not having any. Choose to just use the one to help keep the top plate and carbs cooler.


Hmmm....useful to know. Probably won't make any difference then, my carbs are hanging in the breeze anyway.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Tig; 04/06/22 09:33 AM.

'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 4:10's and 10.5s. .
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: mopar dave] #3031161
04/06/22 10:02 AM
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mopar dave Offline OP
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I will talk to Indy today to get their opinion as well. I need to order the spacer from them anyway. If i cant find a professional welder for this, can i just epoxy it?

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: rebel] #3031212
04/06/22 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rebel
This is mine as cast. I measured the port from the point it starts to form the port, to the size at the flange base, its 3x larger at the plenum.


Those runners look quite a bit different than newer models. It would be interesting to hear Indy's thinking on what the various changes were intended for.

Last edited by Harry's Taxi 2; 04/06/22 12:12 PM.

'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.

NOS-used when losing since 1940.

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: mopar dave] #3031219
04/06/22 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
I will talk to Indy today to get their opinion as well. I need to order the spacer from them anyway. If i cant find a professional welder for this, can i just epoxy it?


I don't think I'd trust epoxy. it would be solid epoxy for about a 2-3" span between the groups of runner. There would be pretty substantial expansion and contraction with different materials during heating and cooling i would think.

an interesting thing i learned was that the plenum volume (poured) was approx. 20+ cu.in. more in the M1 tunnel ram intake i'm using on my current engine vs. the modified Indy intake.

Last edited by Harry's Taxi 2; 04/06/22 12:33 PM.

'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.

NOS-used when losing since 1940.

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: Tig] #3031474
04/07/22 08:18 AM
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I spoke with Wilson Manifold about the Indy T ram yesterday. They said full on drag motors like plenum volume. The extra volume makes the engine pull harder thru mid to high rpm. The divider like in my t ram is there for better fuel/air distribution. Without it, the fuel/air bounces from one end to the other of the plenum creating poor distribution. They suggested to me for my mostly street combo to not increase the plenum volume, but to add a couple anti-reversion plates as those alone may help with poor distribution. I may try the 1/2" lid spacer anyway just to see along with anti-reversion plates.

Re: Indy 400-I4 t ram mod [Re: mopar dave] #3031602
04/07/22 02:59 PM
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The only way YOU will learn about YOUR parts is to test them up wrench
I 've seen very knowledgeable racers spread misinformation intentionally and through them misunderstanding their parts shock shruggy
For instance on BB Mopar timing covers and stock balancer, do NOT mix early balancers with later (1966 and later) timing covers or vice a versus tsk Doing that will make your ignition timing off by around 10 degrees shock puke tsk
The early timing covers have the zero mark on the top of the straight timing tabs, the later curved tabs have it in the middle of the tab, around 10 degree difference scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/07/22 06:26 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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