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440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized #3017798
02/22/22 05:36 PM
02/22/22 05:36 PM
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Pasadena, Texas
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fal3 Offline OP
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Tried to make this as brief as possible. Was fine tuning on carb, all is well. Go for a drive engine starts running rough, no power. Get it in driveway, have blue smoke pouring out of exhaust, engine running like several cylinders down, engine stalls abruptly before I get to turn it off. Try to refire engine, but starter couldn't spin engine fast enough for it to start, kinda like a dead battery. After several attempts, got engine started and see gas pouring out of carb-float stuck open I discover later. Engine cuts off abruptly, again, before I can turn it off. Check oil level and smell nothing but gas. There is gas on dipstick and thin film of oil. Panic kicks in; thinking I locked engine up. Drain oil pan; fresh oil, filter. All plugs removed; carb blocked at WoT. Tried to turn engine by hand but it was a challenge. Here's a description of the plugs. Cylinders 1 & 3 dark, sooty, black carbon. Cylinders # 2 & 4 electrode partially black. Cylinders # 5,7,6, 8 plugs were clean like not firing (almost like out of the box). I know this is something significant, but I lack the expertise to draw a conclusion.

So, I go get my priming rod, and prime engine. Remove driver side valve cover to see if top of engine getting oil. Drill got oil pressure up to 45 psi (mechanical guage) and needle slowly fell to 0. I'm getting happy. I go between priming engine and turning it by hand, checking OP guage, and it gets easier to turn motor; oil is being pushed up to valve train. I'm thinking I'm on the right track. So, I think before I fire it up, I need to prime engine and turn it by hand simultaneously. Ask son to help and two days later he is with me to repeat the above process- he primes, I turn engine by hand. This time no oil pressure at all reading on gauge. But I decide to push on with my plan (this is where I might've fk'd up). Engine turned just like previous attempt except not seeing oil coming up to valve springs. Oil pressure guage still not registering, but my son notes that needle was twitching off of 0 but not rising.
What happened? I'm starting to think a cam bearing spun blocking oil passage(?). IDK. If more info needed, let me know

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3017802
02/22/22 05:42 PM
02/22/22 05:42 PM
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Pasadena, Texas
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fal3 Offline OP
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Yes & yes.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3017803
02/22/22 05:44 PM
02/22/22 05:44 PM
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Pasadena, Texas
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fal3 Offline OP
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Drill was used; went CCW.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3017804
02/22/22 05:44 PM
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Spun cam bearing wouldn't affect the oil pressure gauge

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: Sniper] #3017826
02/22/22 06:58 PM
02/22/22 06:58 PM
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Are you sure the priming rod engaged the pump? You may not get oil to the top end but you should definitely have some pressure. A needle bouncing off zero could be the priming rod slipping in the rotor - its catching just enough to slightly spin the rotor just enough to bounce the needle.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: Stanton] #3017857
02/22/22 08:28 PM
02/22/22 08:28 PM
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Did the drill motor labor when trying to get oil pressure ?

If so, pull the relief valve and make sure it’s not stuck in bypass.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3017866
02/22/22 08:47 PM
02/22/22 08:47 PM
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counter clockwise to get oil psi in a 440 !

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: calrobb2000] #3017871
02/22/22 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by calrobb2000

counter clockwise to get oil psi in a 440 !


See the third post in this thread

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3017922
02/23/22 03:10 AM
02/23/22 03:10 AM
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Which type and size motor and how old was the gas in the tank?


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Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: Cab_Burge] #3017954
02/23/22 09:11 AM
02/23/22 09:11 AM
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prime with the dampener at #6 and #8 TDC compression to preoil each head


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: RapidRobert] #3017972
02/23/22 10:15 AM
02/23/22 10:15 AM
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ontario calif
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Pack the oil pump with light grease

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3017978
02/23/22 10:35 AM
02/23/22 10:35 AM
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Pasadena, Texas
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fal3 Offline OP
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Cab- engine 440; gas is fresh b/c installed new fuel pump about 3 wks back.
Drill did not labor; I forgot about that point. Significance of this action?
I'll pull oil pump and check relief valve.
Will follow #6 & 8 primed at TDC.
Curious about packing oil pump with grease. How does this help? Not being a dick, but want to add to knowledge base.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3017986
02/23/22 11:01 AM
02/23/22 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by fal3
Cab- engine 440; gas is fresh b/c installed new fuel pump about 3 wks back.
Drill did not labor; I forgot about that point. Significance of this action?
I'll pull oil pump and check relief valve.
Will follow #6 & 8 primed at TDC.
Curious about packing oil pump with grease. How does this help? Not being a dick, but want to add to knowledge base.


If drill motor did not labor you either have a cracked oil pickup (doubtful at this point based on the engine having pressure recently), plugged oil pickup (again doubtful at this point), relief valve stuck wide open dumping pressure which reduces drag on drill motor, or large leak inside engine. Engine has been running so maybe you blew a lifter out of it’s bore (a cylinder without working valves/s will cause more drag to turn over by hand or starter).

Packing the oil pump is not needed, you had oil pressure recently. A full oil filter and oil in the pump is all you need to get pressure.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3017989
02/23/22 11:14 AM
02/23/22 11:14 AM
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JohnRR Offline
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Originally Posted by fal3
Tried to make this as brief as possible. Was fine tuning on carb, all is well. Go for a drive engine starts running rough, no power. Get it in driveway, have blue smoke pouring out of exhaust, engine running like several cylinders down, engine stalls abruptly before I get to turn it off. Try to refire engine, but starter couldn't spin engine fast enough for it to start, kinda like a dead battery. After several attempts, got engine started and see gas pouring out of carb-float stuck open I discover later. Engine cuts off abruptly, again, before I can turn it off. Check oil level and smell nothing but gas. There is gas on dipstick and thin film of oil. Panic kicks in; thinking I locked engine up. Drain oil pan; fresh oil, filter. All plugs removed; carb blocked at WoT. Tried to turn engine by hand but it was a challenge. Here's a description of the plugs. Cylinders 1 & 3 dark, sooty, black carbon. Cylinders # 2 & 4 electrode partially black. Cylinders # 5,7,6, 8 plugs were clean like not firing (almost like out of the box). I know this is something significant, but I lack the expertise to draw a conclusion.

So, I go get my priming rod, and prime engine. Remove driver side valve cover to see if top of engine getting oil. Drill got oil pressure up to 45 psi (mechanical guage) and needle slowly fell to 0. I'm getting happy. I go between priming engine and turning it by hand, checking OP guage, and it gets easier to turn motor; oil is being pushed up to valve train. I'm thinking I'm on the right track. So, I think before I fire it up, I need to prime engine and turn it by hand simultaneously. Ask son to help and two days later he is with me to repeat the above process- he primes, I turn engine by hand. This time no oil pressure at all reading on gauge. But I decide to push on with my plan (this is where I might've fk'd up). Engine turned just like previous attempt except not seeing oil coming up to valve springs. Oil pressure guage still not registering, but my son notes that needle was twitching off of 0 but not rising.
What happened? I'm starting to think a cam bearing spun blocking oil passage(?). IDK. If more info needed, let me know


When you drained it how much fluid came out ?


running up my post count some more .
Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018003
02/23/22 11:44 AM
02/23/22 11:44 AM
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Omaha Ne
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Originally Posted by fal3
Cab- engine 440;
Drill did not labor; I forgot about that point. Significance of this action?

Curious about packing oil pump with grease. How does this help? Not being a dick, but want to add to knowledge base.

If the drill is not "laboring" it is because the pump is not building pressure which requires more torque/effort from the drill.

Packing the pump with grease fills the clearances inside the pump so it is more prone to pull (suck) the oil up in the pan.

I agree on the fact that it has already primed so this is more than 98% likely to have you chasing your tail.

The relief valve is a possibility and easily removed with out even pulling the pump.

I also agree with pulling the valve covers to verify all the lifters are still in place.
twocents beer

Last edited by TJP; 02/23/22 11:47 AM.
Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: TJP] #3018049
02/23/22 01:31 PM
02/23/22 01:31 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Online content
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Float sticks open and fuel pours into the motor. Too much fuel and a cylinder stops firing. Fuel fills the cylinder and "hydraulics" preventing valves from opening and subsequently bends a pushrod or two. Engine starts and tosses those lifters out of their bores. Now you have no oil pressure and no resistance in the pump.

Pull the valve covers before you crawl under to check the relief valve.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018081
02/23/22 02:18 PM
02/23/22 02:18 PM
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Pasadena, Texas
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fal3 Offline OP
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JohnRR- about 5-6 qts in the oil catch pan used for oil changes.
Did not think of bent pushrods or jumped lifters. I only had d-side valve cover off to find TDC; I'll remove p-side and take a peek. Thanks for the info on why use packed grease; fluid hydraulics.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: Stanton] #3018093
02/23/22 02:32 PM
02/23/22 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanton
Float sticks open and fuel pours into the motor. Too much fuel and a cylinder stops firing. Fuel fills the cylinder and "hydraulics" preventing valves from opening and subsequently bends a pushrod or two. Engine starts and tosses those lifters out of their bores. Now you have no oil pressure and no resistance in the pump.

Pull the valve covers before you crawl under to check the relief valve.
up iagree scope
Been there, done that with a broken valve spring letting the roller lifter pop out around 5600 RPM in high gear on a 1/4-mile pass: whiney:


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018209
02/23/22 07:12 PM
02/23/22 07:12 PM
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Pasadena, Texas
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fal3 Offline OP
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As recommended, I checked push rods and lifter placement; all is well. Put the valve train back together, and decide, let me try and prime the engine, again. As Dirty Harry would say "Are you feeling lucky?". Set-up all the equipment, and bam, oil pressure builds up. I'm thinking the car hates me. Why is pressure building-up? But, it was a short lived victory.
I decide, let me take advantage of the situation and turn the engine over. So I prime and turn; oil pressure still registers. It was hard at first, got a little easy, but still had to put some ass behind it. Valves are moving up/down; they're getting oil. As I'm rotating the engine, I hear what I think is a death knell. At the point where the head meets the manifold, deep in the block at cylinders #6 & #8, I hear an audible metal snick 180 degrees apart.
What's the bad news? Opinions, please. I think a tear-down is definitely in the plans.

Re: 440 oil priming mystery or is my engine seized [Re: fal3] #3018259
02/23/22 09:15 PM
02/23/22 09:15 PM
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Go to the nearest Catholic Church and get some Holy Water. Sprinkle some on you and some on the engine.
Let us know how it goes. We will pray for you.

Last edited by Transman; 02/23/22 09:16 PM.
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