Good analogy...

Joe

I would have liked this comparison more if the hemi didn't have a Stage 5 single plane intake with who knows what size Holley carbs and $4000 Barton rockers. Put a stock dual plane intake and carbs and stock rockers on it and rerun the test. Even better, put that cam in a stock streethemi. That would be more comparable with Dulcich's 440. Heck the intake and rockers on that hemi are worth more than Dulcich's whole engine.

I want to see a comparison where they make the CID identical, then there won't be no comparison. People always ignore the fact the hemi was down 14 CID, that alone would be close to 20 LBS TQ and hand the advantage to the hemi as down low it would no longer lack the TQ advantage the 440 had as well as running away as the RPM went up.

The six pack cars were made to compete with the BB Chevy on the street
So where the street hemi cars

Interesting comparison, seemed to me, but they left power on the table with only 9:1 on the Hemi.
I'd prefer to see each one built more to their strengths as you would with a fresh build, but it was still good data.
The low-end TQ comparison is pretty valid; my Street Hemi was pretty "average" on the butt-dyno under 3500 RPM.
After 3500 though, it rapidly charged towards 7500 with a vengeance, and was still pulling when I'd hit the next gear.
On the dyno, it pulled 490 TQ, 540 HP before the AFBs were sorted out. Pretty decent in 1988.
Mostly stock, but + .060, 10.8:1, old-school Crower solid FT (.547 lift, 300 adv duration is all I recall now), headers, MSD, 8-qt Milodon pan & ported stock heads.
My 440s with similar mods have been snappier under 3500, which seems to be the heads (Eddys or Stealths, but not as much port size & CFM of course as the Hemi).
My 512 with Indy EZ top-end was pretty much a blend of both architectures; one of its strengths was being happy with a 3.23 gear, where the Hemi wanted 4.10s for all-around street/hwy use.
None of them were what I'd call fussy to maintain - so I'd say that knock on the Hemi's rep is from poor tuning.

The test is interesting, but I have my own opinions of course. Number one, why would anybody in their right mind run a Hemi at 9 to 1 compression? It makes absolutely no sense unless you live in a third world country where you can only get some kind of junk fuel. Number two, why would you try and run identical cam profiles on two engines with such radically different cylinder head configurations. Putting a dump truck cam like that in a Hemi is like requiring an Olympic runner to breathe through a straw.

I think a better test would be put together a couple of bone stock engines, blueprinted to the original published specifications. No porting, no trick valve job, no fancy valves, stock pistons, rods, cranks, everything. Just put in some good rod bolts for insurance. Blueprint the assembly process to make sure that manifolds and carburetors and everything fits properly, blueprint and tune the carburetors and distributors, to make sure that each engine is in optimized stock configuration. Then dyno test them that way and and see what you get. Then add camshaft with matching springs and headers. Rather than try to equalize, put in the optimum cam and header for that particular engine. Then test them again and see what you get. Then pick another modification, like intake manifold and carburetors. Again, don't equalize, optimize for the combination. Then you get an idea of what the stock long block is capable of for each motor. Then if you want to take it further add compression and head porting. But don't equalize compression, pick an octane and optimize compression for each engine to run on that octane.
Then I think we'd have some testing and a comparison that is actually really meaningful. Of course I realized that this is a TV show, and they had to pretty much run stuff that they had sitting around. They had no incentive whatsoever to do a test such as I suggest. Just the fact that they are doing the comparison will bring in enough viewers to satisfy the producer.

Everybody's speculation that the Hemi is slower on the first half of the track and faster on the top end of the track in my opinion has nothing to do with the power band / torque curve of the engine. That entire fallacy assumes there is no transmission and that you are making a drag strip run like a dino pull in high gear. Everybody seems to forget that the engine will hit red line three or four times by the 8th mile.
I think it has more to do with gearing and traction on street tires. Obviously, in all iron Hemi is very heavy. Getting one off the line on street tires can be a challenge. And most street Hemi cars aren't geared deep enough. If everything is optimized, including gearing, traction, and removing driver error, the car with the better power to weight ratio will always win in a drag race.

The third thing is that a Hemi needs constant tuning. That is a total crock. It takes No more effort to keep a Hemi in tune than any other car with dual points, solid cam and two carburetors. It's no big deal whatsoever and once it is dialed in, the need to change or adjust anything is very seldom.


Edit: top side it looks like you and me were thinking the same thing and type in the same thing at the same time!

Joel, you're talking real world results and testing.
Not like the "theory" guys that make up these tests and get paid to write their results
I always take each one of these articles with a grain of salt, you have to remember that the people writing the articles are writers that may or may not like or know anything about cars and motors

Well the one thing no one mentioned was that the 440six is going to go in Steve's charger that is at the farm.
So looks like a great Roadkill episode or 2 is on the way.
The 440 with six-pack was what he had on hand as is for his own car.
So yes you can say the Hemi was under built but was needing to be close to what the street driven 440 he has planed. If that makes sense?
Anyway I think it was a 71 or 72 so it should be a blast when they drop it in.
And the way he drives I hope they have lots of spare tires when they test.

Still makes no sense to me. That was the right cam for a street 440. Not for the Hemi.

When the 440 in this test hit is limit, the obstruction was the heads. But it was actually a very well matched combo. What is the the one thing that sets the Hemi apart? The heads. But the heads weren't tested in this test, the cam was a bottleneck that didn't let them breath. The heads and the intake are both capable of delivering way more, so it was a very mismatched package.

thats the first thing i thought, how do you have the same cam profile for a 440 and a hemi, if it were a good cam for the hemi it would have not been for the 440, i think they said the compression was about a half point lower for the hemi which did not help it, they did not prove anything that we all did not already know, but it sure was entertaining.

They also keep saying no torque on the Hemi, well dump the clutch at 4500 and see what engine wins. Real world times with our 68 Dart drag car, 440 had stock heads .030 over 11.1 pistons and mild roller 590 cam 850 DP car ran 6.80s. With stock bore Hemi 12.1 pistons 550 RB roller cam stock heads and cross ram intake two hollys same vert ran 6.60s 1/8 mile. Now 1/4 440 was 10.90 Hemi 10.31 poping running out of fuel, now that’s a back in the day bonafide test. Car and motor (440) weighed 3100. Kenny was 250, This was 1980

Rock , Flip Over

This test was done back in June of 2021

Snooze

the Street Hemi girnd cam DC used to sell seemed to work pretty good in my 413.

are you talking about the Mopar Purple Shaft 284 street Hemi grind cam in your 413?
If so you may want to try another better grind, I hated those cams in wedges

I am not sure that is a fair assessment of Freiburger, Dolcich, or Brule.

These 3 guys are not your typical automtive press. All three of them are VERY sharp and very experienced in high performance engines. But still, they are producing a TV show. They have deadlines and budgets and producers.

I loved the Mopar 280/.474 cam in my 9.5 compression 440. Ran it in a 67 b-body with 3.91 gears, factory high stall convertor, HP manifolds, Weiand 8009 intake with a 750 Holley. Sucker ran hard. 13.00 @ 117mph. Ran hard enough to get me a $1275 ticket one evening.

My personel experiences with that cam back in the late 1990s was really bad, I degree it for the shop in the customers 1968 Charger 383 automatic car, that cam wouldn't make enough manifold vacuum idling at a stop light to stop twice, NOT GOOD It had a nasty sounding idle and didn't pull real hard down low or anywhere else I degree it where Mopar advice on that cam back then I think they replace that cam part number with a similar grind several years later to make it better
The shop owner removed it after driving it once and put in a "R.V" cam that would stop it okay.
The 19-year-old owner wrap it around a power pole within 6 weeks of getting it back
I never sold another one of those cam kits, NEVER

Ditto, had one in the mid '70's, no idle vacuum. IIRC, it was discontinued and replaced with a different "hemi grind" because it hurt the low end so badly and the top end was hardly improved over the stock cam.