Hemi Book
#3012266
02/04/22 09:04 PM
02/04/22 09:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721 North Dakota
6PakBee
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
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What is the best book available if one wanted to build a second generation Hemi as a good driver? Thanks!
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: blowndart]
#3012401
02/05/22 10:27 AM
02/05/22 10:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,092 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,092
Benton, IL.
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That is the one I used to build my Hemis. That along with good advice and parts from experienced Hemi builders and vendors. Ray Barton in particular.
Master, again and still
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: 6PakBee]
#3012404
02/05/22 10:40 AM
02/05/22 10:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846
S.E. Michigan
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I'm not aware of one. Let me know if you find anything! I have the Nedbal book, I like it, but it's more high level overview material..it does not get far enough into specs and details of different combinations to provide much direction. You'll find more in the trailer queen/Toy/Race categories than you will true drivers. As far as opinions go (oh no) I feel a basically stock street hemi maybe with a cam and header upgrade is PLENTY. Once a person gets over the cost and availability considerations the main things that work against it are weight and complexity. The iron heads are super heavy, they will work fine but run aluminum if you're starting with nothing. Actually I think Mopar killed off the only new iron head you could get anyway, so that decision may have already been made for you. Stock replacement aluminum is all you need, you don't need any of the big port racing stuff. If you're used to a single 4 barrel on your wedge engine, might be the easiest to start off with the same on your hemi. If you have to have "the look" of dual quads, understandable...it's cool as heck...but it's more details to work out. If you want to be on the high end, have at it with FI. A stock street hemi cam was very similar to "first step upgrade" stuff for wedge engines sold back in the day and is perfectly fine for a driver, but a slight upgrade to something more modern will be helpful. Stock street hemi had close to 10:1 which is near accepted norms for pump gas, sure you can get away with more but that's not the idea. The same general type of ignition, exhaust etc that worked on your Wedge engine driver, is also fine for your Hemi driver. No need for anything more exotic. I documented my 572 build fairly well but I would not claim it falls into the "driver" category....Much more street/strip Toy, and there is a big difference. It was suggested a "hemi for regular guys" kind of thing be loaded to youtube, but interest seems pretty limited....
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: ZIPPY]
#3012413
02/05/22 11:05 AM
02/05/22 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721 North Dakota
6PakBee
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721
North Dakota
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I'm not aware of one. Let me know if you find anything! I have the Nedbal book, I like it, but it's more high level overview material..it does not get far enough into specs and details of different combinations to provide much direction. You'll find more in the trailer queen/Toy/Race categories than you will true drivers. As far as opinions go (oh no) I feel a basically stock street hemi maybe with a cam and header upgrade is PLENTY. Once a person gets over the cost and availability considerations the main things that work against it are weight and complexity. The iron heads are super heavy, they will work fine but run aluminum if you're starting with nothing. Actually I think Mopar killed off the only new iron head you could get anyway, so that decision may have already been made for you. Stock replacement aluminum is all you need, you don't need any of the big port racing stuff. If you're used to a single 4 barrel on your wedge engine, might be the easiest to start off with the same on your hemi. If you have to have "the look" of dual quads, understandable...it's cool as heck...but it's more details to work out. If you want to be on the high end, have at it with FI. A stock street hemi cam was very similar to "first step upgrade" stuff for wedge engines sold back in the day and is perfectly fine for a driver, but a slight upgrade to something more modern will be helpful. Stock street hemi had close to 10:1 which is near accepted norms for pump gas, sure you can get away with more but that's not the idea. The same general type of ignition, exhaust etc that worked on your Wedge engine driver, is also fine for your Hemi driver. No need for anything more exotic. I documented my 572 build fairly well but I would not claim it falls into the "driver" category....Much more street/strip Toy, and there is a big difference. It was suggested a "hemi for regular guys" kind of thing be loaded to youtube, but interest seems pretty limited.... I think you read my mind. This is intended to be a pure stock street engine. The only change I am contemplating is going to a roller hydraulic for a number of reasons. What scares me is that this will be my first Hemi. Built a reasonable amount of B's and RB's but never this. And when I read about the difficulties in getting the intake to seal and breaking off pieces of the head with the intake manifold bolts and having problems torquing the upper row of cylinder head studs.....pretty much stuff that is Hemi only I would like to have some knowledge/cautions before hand. A lot of what I have, like the heads, are NOS items and I don't want to be busting stuff like that up.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: 6PakBee]
#3012511
02/05/22 05:16 PM
02/05/22 05:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846
S.E. Michigan
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I'm not aware of one. Let me know if you find anything! I have the Nedbal book, I like it, but it's more high level overview material..it does not get far enough into specs and details of different combinations to provide much direction. You'll find more in the trailer queen/Toy/Race categories than you will true drivers. As far as opinions go (oh no) I feel a basically stock street hemi maybe with a cam and header upgrade is PLENTY. Once a person gets over the cost and availability considerations the main things that work against it are weight and complexity. The iron heads are super heavy, they will work fine but run aluminum if you're starting with nothing. Actually I think Mopar killed off the only new iron head you could get anyway, so that decision may have already been made for you. Stock replacement aluminum is all you need, you don't need any of the big port racing stuff. If you're used to a single 4 barrel on your wedge engine, might be the easiest to start off with the same on your hemi. If you have to have "the look" of dual quads, understandable...it's cool as heck...but it's more details to work out. If you want to be on the high end, have at it with FI. A stock street hemi cam was very similar to "first step upgrade" stuff for wedge engines sold back in the day and is perfectly fine for a driver, but a slight upgrade to something more modern will be helpful. Stock street hemi had close to 10:1 which is near accepted norms for pump gas, sure you can get away with more but that's not the idea. The same general type of ignition, exhaust etc that worked on your Wedge engine driver, is also fine for your Hemi driver. No need for anything more exotic. I documented my 572 build fairly well but I would not claim it falls into the "driver" category....Much more street/strip Toy, and there is a big difference. It was suggested a "hemi for regular guys" kind of thing be loaded to youtube, but interest seems pretty limited.... I think you read my mind. This is intended to be a pure stock street engine. The only change I am contemplating is going to a roller hydraulic for a number of reasons. What scares me is that this will be my first Hemi. Built a reasonable amount of B's and RB's but never this. And when I read about the difficulties in getting the intake to seal and breaking off pieces of the head with the intake manifold bolts and having problems torquing the upper row of cylinder head studs.....pretty much stuff that is Hemi only I would like to have some knowledge/cautions before hand. A lot of what I have, like the heads, are NOS items and I don't want to be busting stuff like that up. Not much is out there, but there are a few guys here who run Hemis who are always glad to help out. Don't go over OE intake manifold torque spec. Overtorqued intake can cause a conucopia of problems. Mock up the intake, sit there with feeler gauges and look for problems with intake manifold fit, as best you can. I did not use expensive intake gaskets B/C I plan on experimenting with a few different manifolds, I don't expect the gasket to last long before I take it apart. There were issues with intake manifolds cracking when the china wall bolts were used, they're usually left off, but if a separate valley cover is used then no problem. To torque the top row of head bolts, obtain a box end crow's foot and do the calculation to reduce the number to correct the value. Rocker shaft oiling: They can get air locked, easily. Don't use thick assembly grease....use oil or assembly lube only...It takes seemingly forever for all the air to be pushed out of all 4 shafts and all 5 stands, to the point that if you are like me, you will start to question yourself. Press onward. This is one thing that got me during my build. Get familiar with the "theoretical if it were flat, minus actual 1" down fill volume" to measure dome volume and help calculate compression ratio. Buy or make the tools. PM with any questions, if I don't know the answer I may know someone who does. I can relate to your position, I approached my first Hemi carefully too, and maybe I was crazy to do a 572 as the first one.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: ZIPPY]
#3012586
02/05/22 08:25 PM
02/05/22 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721 North Dakota
6PakBee
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721
North Dakota
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Rich, thanks for the offer of help. When it comes to assembly (probably at least 18 months out) I'll undoubtedly be knocking on your door!! Thanks to everybody else that replied, I will get the book referenced, you never know.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: 6PakBee]
#3012964
02/07/22 09:25 AM
02/07/22 09:25 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326 VA
dragon slayer
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326
VA
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I am reading the book now. Looks like a good book. Having been involved with several hemi builds with an experience builder and building my own 18 months ago. I would say the first thing is to determine exactly what you want based on the parts you have. If OEM stuff make sure the block, heads, rods, pistons fully inspected, leak checked and magnafluxed. Then make your measurements of what you are working with. Block bore, deck height, head volume, rod size, piston CD. All to target your displacement and compression ratio. I am just over 10 to 1. You will be surprised depending on what you have if used stuff may be nowhere near stock measurements. You have to account for decking block to square and ensure level seating surface, same with heads. Always line hone or bore the block once you know it is good. Mockup and measure. Repeat.
Mine was a 66 block .30 over, I used after market 4.15 stroke, rods, and pistons. Understanding hemi pistons and CD is important. If you are going stock clearance should be good but you still have to measure everything.
To get an actual static compression ratio (while I cc'd every chamber of both heads) the best way is to put a piston in at TDC with correct gasket thickness sealed with white lithium grease around rings. Install head and then cc the compressed volume. Since you know the displacement of your motor you have the uncompressed volume. So displacement divided by Comp Vol plus 1 is your static compression measured. You can compare to your calculated as a check. Then adjust head gasket thickness or deck the block depending on what you want versus what you measured.
Have access to all the tools and some experienced eyes and ears when you have questions is important. Hopefully you have a mopar machine shop and someone with hemi experience for the machining unless you do it yourself.
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: dragon slayer]
#3012986
02/07/22 11:31 AM
02/07/22 11:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721 North Dakota
6PakBee
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721
North Dakota
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I am reading the book now. Looks like a good book. Having been involved with several hemi builds with an experience builder and building my own 18 months ago. I would say the first thing is to determine exactly what you want based on the parts you have. If OEM stuff make sure the block, heads, rods, pistons fully inspected, leak checked and magnafluxed. Then make your measurements of what you are working with. Block bore, deck height, head volume, rod size, piston CD. All to target your displacement and compression ratio. I am just over 10 to 1. You will be surprised depending on what you have if used stuff may be nowhere near stock measurements. You have to account for decking block to square and ensure level seating surface, same with heads. Always line hone or bore the block once you know it is good. Mockup and measure. Repeat.
Mine was a 66 block .30 over, I used after market 4.15 stroke, rods, and pistons. Understanding hemi pistons and CD is important. If you are going stock clearance should be good but you still have to measure everything.
To get an actual static compression ratio (while I cc'd every chamber of both heads) the best way is to put a piston in at TDC with correct gasket thickness sealed with white lithium grease around rings. Install head and then cc the compressed volume. Since you know the displacement of your motor you have the uncompressed volume. So displacement divided by Comp Vol plus 1 is your static compression measured. You can compare to your calculated as a check. Then adjust head gasket thickness or deck the block depending on what you want versus what you measured.
Have access to all the tools and some experienced eyes and ears when you have questions is important. Hopefully you have a mopar machine shop and someone with hemi experience for the machining unless you do it yourself. Thanks for the comments. Unfortunately there is one local machine shop that lives, breathes, and worships Ford. However, that having been said he has done a number of RB's and I'm hoping that between him and me we can figure it out.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3013087
02/07/22 03:50 PM
02/07/22 03:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408
north of coder
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if one were to re-number a ford firing order by re-naming the drivers side cylinders 1-3-5-7, and the passenger side cylinders 2-4-6-8, the firing order would then become 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. this only works on certain ford engines, so be careful. i think i did this on my one buddy's 390 that's in his 64 galaxy. was kind of funny at the time.
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: moparx]
#3013250
02/08/22 01:27 AM
02/08/22 01:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,490 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,490
Minnesota
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If you do decide to go with that hydraulic roller cam, mock up the block, heads, cam, lifters, push rods, rocker arms, valves, and springs before you final assemble the engine. Because you will probably need to grind some clearance into the block and/or heads for the pushrods due to the taller lifters. You don't want to discover that after the engine is already mostly assembled. Don't worry about the head nuts in the valley. Just get an adapter and do the math like shown in this thread: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...0767/re-426-hemi-head-bolt-question.html
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: ZIPPY]
#3013294
02/08/22 09:40 AM
02/08/22 09:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Find someone you trust that knows these engines and talk to them. There are several here that are more than willing and capable. I bought the Nedbal book and was disappointed. Not knocking him, just didn't think the book was helpful.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Hemi Book
[Re: ZIPPY]
#3013715
02/09/22 01:47 PM
02/09/22 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Find someone you trust that knows these engines and talk to them. There are several here that are more than willing and capable. It takes one to know one...you're one of the good guys Thanks Zippy! Glad I could help you, what little I may have, b/c you did a helluva job on yours. I had help from members here years ago when I first built mine...happy to return the favor.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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