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Hemi Book #3012266
02/04/22 09:04 PM
02/04/22 09:04 PM
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North Dakota
6PakBee Offline OP
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What is the best book available if one wanted to build a second generation Hemi as a good driver? Thanks!


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Hemi Book [Re: 6PakBee] #3012377
02/05/22 08:05 AM
02/05/22 08:05 AM
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maximus Offline
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The one I have is called: How to build Max-Performance HEMI Engines by Richard Nedbal. A very good book with a lot of input from Tom Hoover. It covers each part of the engine.

Re: Hemi Book [Re: maximus] #3012384
02/05/22 08:58 AM
02/05/22 08:58 AM
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Odessa, Fl
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blowndart Offline
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Originally Posted by maximus
The one I have is called: How to build Max-Performance HEMI Engines by Richard Nedbal. A very good book with a lot of input from Tom Hoover. It covers each part of the engine.

iagree Great book with all the details that you'd need.

Re: Hemi Book [Re: blowndart] #3012401
02/05/22 10:27 AM
02/05/22 10:27 AM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
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That is the one I used to build my Hemis. That along with good advice and parts from experienced Hemi builders and vendors. Ray Barton in particular.


Master, again and still
Re: Hemi Book [Re: 6PakBee] #3012404
02/05/22 10:40 AM
02/05/22 10:40 AM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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I'm not aware of one. Let me know if you find anything!

I have the Nedbal book, I like it, but it's more high level overview material..it does not get far enough into
specs and details of different combinations to provide much direction.

You'll find more in the trailer queen/Toy/Race categories than you will true drivers.

As far as opinions go (oh no)
twocents

I feel a basically stock street hemi maybe with a cam and header upgrade is PLENTY.

Once a person gets over the cost and availability considerations the main things that work against it are weight and complexity.

The iron heads are super heavy, they will work fine but run aluminum if you're starting with nothing.
Actually I think Mopar killed off the only new iron head you could get anyway, so that decision may have already been made for you.
Stock replacement aluminum is all you need, you don't need any of the big port racing stuff.

If you're used to a single 4 barrel on your wedge engine, might be the easiest to start off with the same on your hemi.
If you have to have "the look" of dual quads, understandable...it's cool as heck...but it's more details to work out.
If you want to be on the high end, have at it with FI.

A stock street hemi cam was very similar to "first step upgrade" stuff for wedge engines
sold back in the day and is perfectly fine for a driver, but a slight upgrade to something more modern will be helpful.

Stock street hemi had close to 10:1 which is near accepted norms for pump gas, sure you can get away with more but
that's not the idea.

The same general type of ignition, exhaust etc that worked on your Wedge engine driver, is also fine for your Hemi driver. No need for anything more exotic.

I documented my 572 build fairly well but I would not claim it falls into the "driver" category....Much more street/strip Toy, and there is a big difference.
It was suggested a "hemi for regular guys" kind of thing be loaded to youtube, but interest seems pretty limited....







Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Hemi Book [Re: ZIPPY] #3012413
02/05/22 11:05 AM
02/05/22 11:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline OP
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North Dakota
Originally Posted by ZIPPY
I'm not aware of one. Let me know if you find anything!

I have the Nedbal book, I like it, but it's more high level overview material..it does not get far enough into
specs and details of different combinations to provide much direction.

You'll find more in the trailer queen/Toy/Race categories than you will true drivers.

As far as opinions go (oh no)
twocents

I feel a basically stock street hemi maybe with a cam and header upgrade is PLENTY.

Once a person gets over the cost and availability considerations the main things that work against it are weight and complexity.

The iron heads are super heavy, they will work fine but run aluminum if you're starting with nothing.
Actually I think Mopar killed off the only new iron head you could get anyway, so that decision may have already been made for you.
Stock replacement aluminum is all you need, you don't need any of the big port racing stuff.

If you're used to a single 4 barrel on your wedge engine, might be the easiest to start off with the same on your hemi.
If you have to have "the look" of dual quads, understandable...it's cool as heck...but it's more details to work out.
If you want to be on the high end, have at it with FI.

A stock street hemi cam was very similar to "first step upgrade" stuff for wedge engines
sold back in the day and is perfectly fine for a driver, but a slight upgrade to something more modern will be helpful.

Stock street hemi had close to 10:1 which is near accepted norms for pump gas, sure you can get away with more but
that's not the idea.

The same general type of ignition, exhaust etc that worked on your Wedge engine driver, is also fine for your Hemi driver. No need for anything more exotic.

I documented my 572 build fairly well but I would not claim it falls into the "driver" category....Much more street/strip Toy, and there is a big difference.
It was suggested a "hemi for regular guys" kind of thing be loaded to youtube, but interest seems pretty limited....


I think you read my mind. This is intended to be a pure stock street engine. The only change I am contemplating is going to a roller hydraulic for a number of reasons. What scares me is that this will be my first Hemi. Built a reasonable amount of B's and RB's but never this. And when I read about the difficulties in getting the intake to seal and breaking off pieces of the head with the intake manifold bolts and having problems torquing the upper row of cylinder head studs.....pretty much stuff that is Hemi only I would like to have some knowledge/cautions before hand. A lot of what I have, like the heads, are NOS items and I don't want to be busting stuff like that up.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Hemi Book [Re: 6PakBee] #3012440
02/05/22 12:44 PM
02/05/22 12:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,708
central il.
S
second 70 Offline
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Use these intake gaskets and you'll be fine.

09C5A455-D19B-482E-9D1F-59B7E559D409.jpg
Re: Hemi Book [Re: 6PakBee] #3012511
02/05/22 05:16 PM
02/05/22 05:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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S.E. Michigan
Originally Posted by 6PakBee
Originally Posted by ZIPPY
I'm not aware of one. Let me know if you find anything!

I have the Nedbal book, I like it, but it's more high level overview material..it does not get far enough into
specs and details of different combinations to provide much direction.

You'll find more in the trailer queen/Toy/Race categories than you will true drivers.

As far as opinions go (oh no)
twocents

I feel a basically stock street hemi maybe with a cam and header upgrade is PLENTY.

Once a person gets over the cost and availability considerations the main things that work against it are weight and complexity.

The iron heads are super heavy, they will work fine but run aluminum if you're starting with nothing.
Actually I think Mopar killed off the only new iron head you could get anyway, so that decision may have already been made for you.
Stock replacement aluminum is all you need, you don't need any of the big port racing stuff.

If you're used to a single 4 barrel on your wedge engine, might be the easiest to start off with the same on your hemi.
If you have to have "the look" of dual quads, understandable...it's cool as heck...but it's more details to work out.
If you want to be on the high end, have at it with FI.

A stock street hemi cam was very similar to "first step upgrade" stuff for wedge engines
sold back in the day and is perfectly fine for a driver, but a slight upgrade to something more modern will be helpful.

Stock street hemi had close to 10:1 which is near accepted norms for pump gas, sure you can get away with more but
that's not the idea.

The same general type of ignition, exhaust etc that worked on your Wedge engine driver, is also fine for your Hemi driver. No need for anything more exotic.

I documented my 572 build fairly well but I would not claim it falls into the "driver" category....Much more street/strip Toy, and there is a big difference.
It was suggested a "hemi for regular guys" kind of thing be loaded to youtube, but interest seems pretty limited....


I think you read my mind. This is intended to be a pure stock street engine. The only change I am contemplating is going to a roller hydraulic for a number of reasons. What scares me is that this will be my first Hemi. Built a reasonable amount of B's and RB's but never this. And when I read about the difficulties in getting the intake to seal and breaking off pieces of the head with the intake manifold bolts and having problems torquing the upper row of cylinder head studs.....pretty much stuff that is Hemi only I would like to have some knowledge/cautions before hand. A lot of what I have, like the heads, are NOS items and I don't want to be busting stuff like that up.


Not much is out there, but there are a few guys here who run Hemis who are always glad to help out.
Don't go over OE intake manifold torque spec.
Overtorqued intake can cause a conucopia of problems.
Mock up the intake, sit there with feeler gauges and look for problems with intake manifold fit, as best you can.
I did not use expensive intake gaskets B/C I plan on experimenting with a few different manifolds, I don't expect the gasket to last long before I take it apart.
There were issues with intake manifolds cracking when the china wall bolts were used, they're usually left off, but
if a separate valley cover is used then no problem.
To torque the top row of head bolts, obtain a box end crow's foot and do the calculation to reduce the number to correct the value.

Rocker shaft oiling:
They can get air locked, easily. Don't use thick assembly grease....use oil
or assembly lube only...It takes seemingly forever for all the air to be pushed out of all 4 shafts and all 5 stands, to the point that
if you are like me, you will start to question yourself. Press onward. This is one thing that got me during my build.

Get familiar with the "theoretical if it were flat, minus actual 1" down fill volume" to measure dome volume and help calculate compression ratio.
Buy or make the tools.

PM with any questions, if I don't know the answer I may know someone who does.

I can relate to your position, I approached my first Hemi carefully too, and maybe I was crazy to do a 572 as the first one.






Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Hemi Book [Re: ZIPPY] #3012586
02/05/22 08:25 PM
02/05/22 08:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline OP
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North Dakota
Rich, thanks for the offer of help. When it comes to assembly (probably at least 18 months out) I'll undoubtedly be knocking on your door!! up

Thanks to everybody else that replied, I will get the book referenced, you never know.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Hemi Book [Re: 6PakBee] #3012964
02/07/22 09:25 AM
02/07/22 09:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326
VA
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dragon slayer Offline
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VA
I am reading the book now. Looks like a good book. Having been involved with several hemi builds with an experience builder and building my own 18 months ago. I would say the first thing is to determine exactly what you want based on the parts you have. If OEM stuff make sure the block, heads, rods, pistons fully inspected, leak checked and magnafluxed. Then make your measurements of what you are working with. Block bore, deck height, head volume, rod size, piston CD. All to target your displacement and compression ratio. I am just over 10 to 1. You will be surprised depending on what you have if used stuff may be nowhere near stock measurements. You have to account for decking block to square and ensure level seating surface, same with heads. Always line hone or bore the block once you know it is good. Mockup and measure. Repeat.

Mine was a 66 block .30 over, I used after market 4.15 stroke, rods, and pistons. Understanding hemi pistons and CD is important. If you are going stock clearance should be good but you still have to measure everything.

To get an actual static compression ratio (while I cc'd every chamber of both heads) the best way is to put a piston in at TDC with correct gasket thickness sealed with white lithium grease around rings. Install head and then cc the compressed volume. Since you know the displacement of your motor you have the uncompressed volume. So displacement divided by Comp Vol plus 1 is your static compression measured. You can compare to your calculated as a check. Then adjust head gasket thickness or deck the block depending on what you want versus what you measured.

Have access to all the tools and some experienced eyes and ears when you have questions is important. Hopefully you have a mopar machine shop and someone with hemi experience for the machining unless you do it yourself.

Re: Hemi Book [Re: dragon slayer] #3012986
02/07/22 11:31 AM
02/07/22 11:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dragon slayer
I am reading the book now. Looks like a good book. Having been involved with several hemi builds with an experience builder and building my own 18 months ago. I would say the first thing is to determine exactly what you want based on the parts you have. If OEM stuff make sure the block, heads, rods, pistons fully inspected, leak checked and magnafluxed. Then make your measurements of what you are working with. Block bore, deck height, head volume, rod size, piston CD. All to target your displacement and compression ratio. I am just over 10 to 1. You will be surprised depending on what you have if used stuff may be nowhere near stock measurements. You have to account for decking block to square and ensure level seating surface, same with heads. Always line hone or bore the block once you know it is good. Mockup and measure. Repeat.

Mine was a 66 block .30 over, I used after market 4.15 stroke, rods, and pistons. Understanding hemi pistons and CD is important. If you are going stock clearance should be good but you still have to measure everything.

To get an actual static compression ratio (while I cc'd every chamber of both heads) the best way is to put a piston in at TDC with correct gasket thickness sealed with white lithium grease around rings. Install head and then cc the compressed volume. Since you know the displacement of your motor you have the uncompressed volume. So displacement divided by Comp Vol plus 1 is your static compression measured. You can compare to your calculated as a check. Then adjust head gasket thickness or deck the block depending on what you want versus what you measured.

Have access to all the tools and some experienced eyes and ears when you have questions is important. Hopefully you have a mopar machine shop and someone with hemi experience for the machining unless you do it yourself.


Thanks for the comments. up Unfortunately there is one local machine shop that lives, breathes, and worships Ford. However, that having been said he has done a number of RB's and I'm hoping that between him and me we can figure it out.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Hemi Book [Re: 6PakBee] #3013065
02/07/22 03:13 PM
02/07/22 03:13 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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The biggest differences in most modern American made V8 motors is where number one cylinder is located, driver side front or passenger side front shruggy
That and a lot of other small things whistling grin
Ford has had their firing order different since day one due to them numbering the passenger side from #1 to #4 and the driver side from #5 to #8 on the driver side instead of having the even cylinders numbered on one side with the odd # cylinders on the other side, Pontiac having a really weird one with the #1 being on the passenger side front of the block confused


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi Book [Re: Cab_Burge] #3013087
02/07/22 03:50 PM
02/07/22 03:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408
north of coder
moparx Offline
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north of coder
if one were to re-number a ford firing order by re-naming the drivers side cylinders 1-3-5-7, and the passenger side cylinders 2-4-6-8, the firing order would then become 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. whistling
this only works on certain ford engines, so be careful.
i think i did this on my one buddy's 390 that's in his 64 galaxy.
was kind of funny at the time. biggrin
beer

Re: Hemi Book [Re: moparx] #3013250
02/08/22 01:27 AM
02/08/22 01:27 AM
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Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
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Minnesota
If you do decide to go with that hydraulic roller cam, mock up the block, heads, cam, lifters, push rods, rocker arms, valves, and springs before you final assemble the engine. Because you will probably need to grind some clearance into the block and/or heads for the pushrods due to the taller lifters. You don't want to discover that after the engine is already mostly assembled.

Don't worry about the head nuts in the valley. Just get an adapter and do the math like shown in this thread:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthread...0767/re-426-hemi-head-bolt-question.html



[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
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Re: Hemi Book [Re: ZIPPY] #3013294
02/08/22 09:40 AM
02/08/22 09:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
Find someone you trust that knows these engines and talk to them. There are several here that are more than willing and capable. up

I bought the Nedbal book and was disappointed. twocents Not knocking him, just didn't think the book was helpful.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Hemi Book [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3013311
02/08/22 11:37 AM
02/08/22 11:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
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USA
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hudsonhornet7x Offline
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Honestly I wish Andy F would do a Hemi book in the same likeness as his Big Block book. He did it the best in my opinion.

Re: Hemi Book [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #3013359
02/08/22 02:16 PM
02/08/22 02:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,408
north of coder
moparx Offline
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i have Andy's big block book, and i agree, it is the best book out there for B & RB engines. up bow
beer

Re: Hemi Book [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3013372
02/08/22 02:35 PM
02/08/22 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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S.E. Michigan
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Find someone you trust that knows these engines and talk to them. There are several here that are more than willing and capable. up




It takes one to know one...you're one of the good guys up


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Hemi Book [Re: ZIPPY] #3013715
02/09/22 01:47 PM
02/09/22 01:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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an8sec70cuda  Offline
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted by ZIPPY
Originally Posted by an8sec70cuda
Find someone you trust that knows these engines and talk to them. There are several here that are more than willing and capable. up




It takes one to know one...you're one of the good guys up


Thanks Zippy! Glad I could help you, what little I may have, b/c you did a helluva job on yours. up I had help from members here years ago when I first built mine...happy to return the favor. beer


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Hemi Book [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3014240
02/11/22 09:31 AM
02/11/22 09:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,721
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline OP
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North Dakota
Book arrived Wednesday and I have read it all. There are always topics that you wish were covered better but overall pretty satisfied with it. Doesn't address Melonized drive gears for roller cams, only bronze. Didn't address installing hard exhaust seats in the head. One thing I noted was that it is becoming a bit dated (2009). Lists PAW as a retail parts source. And I am confident that some of the bearing numbers probably aren't available any more. But I would buy it again. up


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".






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