Another alternator upgrade question...
#2977017
10/21/21 09:33 PM
10/21/21 09:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730 Nampa, ID
MadMatt
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Tomorrow I am going to start the swap to a Denso alternator on my 1970 Dart. I have the 60 amp alternator and the AR Engineering bracket kit. I know this has been discussed countless times, and I have read all the threads and the articles from MAD electrical. But here's my specific question: Since I'm only going to 60 amps can I just leave the original alternator wire connected and add a 10 gauge wire with a 14 gauge fusible link running to the battery? Will that be safe and adequate, or do I also need to bypass the firewall connector and disconnect the amp gauge? (I know the amp gauge will no longer be accurate but I already have a volt gauge on the car) TIA!
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: BDW]
#2977042
10/21/21 10:20 PM
10/21/21 10:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730 Nampa, ID
MadMatt
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I did exactly what you described, it may be better to bypass alternator gauge, but not necessary. Thanks! I'm trying to make this as easy on myself as possible.
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: MadMatt]
#2977068
10/22/21 12:21 AM
10/22/21 12:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,033 Oregon
AndyF
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Tomorrow I am going to start the swap to a Denso alternator on my 1970 Dart. I have the 60 amp alternator and the AR Engineering bracket kit. I know this has been discussed countless times, and I have read all the threads and the articles from MAD electrical. But here's my specific question: Since I'm only going to 60 amps can I just leave the original alternator wire connected and add a 10 gauge wire with a 14 gauge fusible link running to the battery? Will that be safe and adequate, or do I also need to bypass the firewall connector and disconnect the amp gauge? (I know the amp gauge will no longer be accurate but I already have a volt gauge on the car) TIA! Yes, that is exactly what I recommend in the instructions. The new 10 ga wire from the alternator to the battery should have lower resistance than the existing path thru the firewall so the output of the alternator will flow directly to the battery rather than thru the firewall. You can check this very easily if you have a clamp on ammeter. The clamp on ammeter will show you how much current is flowing to the battery and how much is flowing thru the firewall connector. I use a clamp on ammeter to double check all of the wiring on any new project. It will quickly show you if the grounds are working and how much current is flowing in each wire.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: MadMatt]
#2977096
10/22/21 03:05 AM
10/22/21 03:05 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Having an alt able to feed the car requirements at iddle, the batt will be barelly requested to source or get charged, so the amm will be barelly an "obstacle" on the line. Bulkhead it is thought. Understand how the charging system works first and take your own decisions after that... read: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0/all.htmlMADELECTRICAL website is wrong on several statements.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: AndyF]
#2977220
10/22/21 12:25 PM
10/22/21 12:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730 Nampa, ID
MadMatt
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Tomorrow I am going to start the swap to a Denso alternator on my 1970 Dart. I have the 60 amp alternator and the AR Engineering bracket kit. I know this has been discussed countless times, and I have read all the threads and the articles from MAD electrical. But here's my specific question: Since I'm only going to 60 amps can I just leave the original alternator wire connected and add a 10 gauge wire with a 14 gauge fusible link running to the battery? Will that be safe and adequate, or do I also need to bypass the firewall connector and disconnect the amp gauge? (I know the amp gauge will no longer be accurate but I already have a volt gauge on the car) TIA! Yes, that is exactly what I recommend in the instructions. The new 10 ga wire from the alternator to the battery should have lower resistance than the existing path thru the firewall so the output of the alternator will flow directly to the battery rather than thru the firewall. You can check this very easily if you have a clamp on ammeter. The clamp on ammeter will show you how much current is flowing to the battery and how much is flowing thru the firewall connector. I use a clamp on ammeter to double check all of the wiring on any new project. It will quickly show you if the grounds are working and how much current is flowing in each wire. Thanks for the advice, especially the clamp on ammeter! I will definitely pick one up and use it!
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: MadMatt]
#2977226
10/22/21 12:38 PM
10/22/21 12:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,367 Iowa
burdar
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Since I'm only going to 60 amps can I just leave the original alternator wire connected and add a 10 gauge wire with a 14 gauge fusible link running to the battery? Will that be safe and adequate, or do I also need to bypass the firewall connector and disconnect the amp gauge? (I know the amp gauge will no longer be accurate but I already have a volt gauge on the car) TIA! This is what I did as well. I just left the factory wire attached to the alternator but I added a fusible link to it. The interior is now fed from 2 places instead of 1 and both wires are protected by fusible links. I ran the 10 gauge wire right to the starter relay. I put an inline fuse holder in the 10 gauge wire in case of a dead short in the alternator.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: AndyF]
#2977316
10/22/21 04:37 PM
10/22/21 04:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730 Nampa, ID
MadMatt
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Harbor Freight has clamp meters for as little as $15 although I don't know how accurate they are. I bought one off of Amazon for about $50 and I use it all the time. Most of them have AC/DC switch so you can use them in the house or shop to measure amps in house wiring also. I haven't always had the best luck with Harbor Freight electronics, so after looking around I went out and splurged about $90 bucks for this one at Lowe's. I think it will be a good long-term investment. https://www.idealind.com/us/en/shop.../400a-ac-dc-tightsightr-clamp-meter.html
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: AndyF]
#2977317
10/22/21 04:42 PM
10/22/21 04:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730 Nampa, ID
MadMatt
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Yes, that is exactly what I recommend in the instructions. The new 10 ga wire from the alternator to the battery should have lower resistance than the existing path thru the firewall so the output of the alternator will flow directly to the battery rather than thru the firewall. You can check this very easily if you have a clamp on ammeter. The clamp on ammeter will show you how much current is flowing to the battery and how much is flowing thru the firewall connector. I use a clamp on ammeter to double check all of the wiring on any new project. It will quickly show you if the grounds are working and how much current is flowing in each wire. Since I am going to be eliminating the voltage regulator, can I repurpose one of the other existing connections from the alternator to the VR to act as the 12V sensing wire? I'm trying to avoid hacking my wiring looms as much as I can. If I understand the wiring diagram correctly, the 2 remaining wires that originally connected to the alternator are now extraneous since I'm "losing" the original voltage regulator. *EDIT* So, I found this diagram of the charging system and VR and I'm thinking I can use the existing IGN +/Field + wire from the VR to feed the switched 12 volt lead on the alternator, and repurpose the Field neg wire to use as the 12V sensing wire. Does that make sense or am I missing something?
Last edited by MadMatt; 10/22/21 07:15 PM.
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: AndyF]
#2977338
10/22/21 06:13 PM
10/22/21 06:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Please correct me if I'm wrong ppl, BUT clamp meters are designed just for AC amperage. DC amperage needs a diff meters for high loads. Some multimeters are able to measure small DC amperage due built in shunts, but high loads on DC needs a diff tooling.
Most multimeters with AC and DC capabilities are for voltage,
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2977339
10/22/21 06:27 PM
10/22/21 06:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730 Nampa, ID
MadMatt
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Please correct me if I'm wrong ppl, BUT clamp meters are designed just for AC amperage. DC amperage needs a diff meters for high loads. Some multimeters are able to measure small DC amperage due built in shunts, but high loads on DC needs a diff tooling.
Most multimeters with AC and DC capabilities are for voltage, The one I purchased does both. To quote the product description: "The IDEAL 61-747 TightSight™ Clamp Meter is a CAT III 600 V rated auto ranging true root mean square (TRMS) digital clamp meter that measures up to 400 Amps AC and DC current via the clamp head.
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: MadMatt]
#2977354
10/22/21 07:29 PM
10/22/21 07:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,033 Oregon
AndyF
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Oregon
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Yes, that is exactly what I recommend in the instructions. The new 10 ga wire from the alternator to the battery should have lower resistance than the existing path thru the firewall so the output of the alternator will flow directly to the battery rather than thru the firewall. You can check this very easily if you have a clamp on ammeter. The clamp on ammeter will show you how much current is flowing to the battery and how much is flowing thru the firewall connector. I use a clamp on ammeter to double check all of the wiring on any new project. It will quickly show you if the grounds are working and how much current is flowing in each wire. Since I am going to be eliminating the voltage regulator, can I repurpose one of the other existing connections from the alternator to the VR to act as the 12V sensing wire? I'm trying to avoid hacking my wiring looms as much as I can. If I understand the wiring diagram correctly, the 2 remaining wires that originally connected to the alternator are now extraneous since I'm "losing" the original voltage regulator. *EDIT* So, I found this diagram of the charging system and VR and I'm thinking I can use the existing IGN +/Field + wire from the VR to feed the switched 12 volt lead on the alternator, and repurpose the Field neg wire to use as the 12V sensing wire. Does that make sense or am I missing something? The Denso 60 amp alternator needs two 12 volt connections. One is "sense" and the other is the "turn on". If you have a well behaved wiring system those two wires can both be connected to the same place. If you have a lot of voltage drop in your wiring harness then you need to find a good 12 volt source for the turn on (key on power) line and the sense wire should go someplace that can accurately tell the alternator what the battery voltage is.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: AndyF]
#2977356
10/22/21 07:36 PM
10/22/21 07:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 730 Nampa, ID
MadMatt
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Yes, that is exactly what I recommend in the instructions. The new 10 ga wire from the alternator to the battery should have lower resistance than the existing path thru the firewall so the output of the alternator will flow directly to the battery rather than thru the firewall. You can check this very easily if you have a clamp on ammeter. The clamp on ammeter will show you how much current is flowing to the battery and how much is flowing thru the firewall connector. I use a clamp on ammeter to double check all of the wiring on any new project. It will quickly show you if the grounds are working and how much current is flowing in each wire. Since I am going to be eliminating the voltage regulator, can I repurpose one of the other existing connections from the alternator to the VR to act as the 12V sensing wire? I'm trying to avoid hacking my wiring looms as much as I can. If I understand the wiring diagram correctly, the 2 remaining wires that originally connected to the alternator are now extraneous since I'm "losing" the original voltage regulator. *EDIT* So, I found this diagram of the charging system and VR and I'm thinking I can use the existing IGN +/Field + wire from the VR to feed the switched 12 volt lead on the alternator, and repurpose the Field neg wire to use as the 12V sensing wire. Does that make sense or am I missing something? The Denso 60 amp alternator needs two 12 volt connections. One is "sense" and the other is the "turn on". If you have a well behaved wiring system those two wires can both be connected to the same place. If you have a lot of voltage drop in your wiring harness then you need to find a good 12 volt source for the turn on (key on power) line and the sense wire should go someplace that can accurately tell the alternator what the battery voltage is. I think I have a good spot for the sense wire, but it wouldn't be ignition switched, it would be reading battery voltage all the time. If your saying that the other connection doesn't necessarily have to be switched 12 V then that does simplify things. I can just extend the Neg. field wire that ran from the alternator to the VR and use that to feed both the "sense" and the "turn on".
Some see the glass as half empty, some see the glass as half full. I just drink straight out of the bottle.
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: MadMatt]
#2977364
10/22/21 08:08 PM
10/22/21 08:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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Please correct me if I'm wrong ppl, BUT clamp meters are designed just for AC amperage. DC amperage needs a diff meters for high loads. Some multimeters are able to measure small DC amperage due built in shunts, but high loads on DC needs a diff tooling.
Most multimeters with AC and DC capabilities are for voltage, The one I purchased does both. To quote the product description: "The IDEAL 61-747 TightSight™ Clamp Meter is a CAT III 600 V rated auto ranging true root mean square (TRMS) digital clamp meter that measures up to 400 Amps AC and DC current via the clamp head. Oh! Cool! Just checked it... seems to be nice! I have allways thought the clamp meteres used to be for AC Only! I have one, but is just AC as far I recall.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2977369
10/22/21 08:31 PM
10/22/21 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,357 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,357
Omaha Ne
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Please correct me if I'm wrong ppl, BUT clamp meters are designed just for AC amperage. DC amperage needs a diff meters for high loads. Some multimeters are able to measure small DC amperage due built in shunts, but high loads on DC needs a diff tooling.
Most multimeters with AC and DC capabilities are for voltage, The one I purchased does both. To quote the product description: "The IDEAL 61-747 TightSight™ Clamp Meter is a CAT III 600 V rated auto ranging true root mean square (TRMS) digital clamp meter that measures up to 400 Amps AC and DC current via the clamp head. Oh! Cool! Just checked it... seems to be nice! I have allways thought the clamp meteres used to be for AC Only! I have one, but is just AC as far I recall. I have a 25 year old Fluke accessory clamp over the cable that read the DC current in mV. If it's a small current but too much for the meter being used, one can loop the wire through the clamp multiple times and then divide by the number of loops to get a more accurate reading
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Re: Another alternator upgrade question...
[Re: Torq37]
#2978668
10/26/21 05:17 PM
10/26/21 05:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,033 Oregon
AndyF
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I Win
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I got a Denso alternator a while back but haven't used it yet because I didn't like how the belt rides high in the pulley. I looked at a couple other Denso's of that era at the parts store and they had the same narrow pulley.
I noticed in the AndyF Denso conversion picture the belt is riding at the correct depth. Are wider pulleys available for the 4Runner Denso alternators? I used to make my own pulleys but they got to be too expensive to make so I stopped. That picture probably shows my design. You can get different pulleys from Summit but I can't guarantee that they are all designed correctly.
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