Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Copper in oil filter #2963033
09/11/21 05:18 PM
09/11/21 05:18 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline OP
mopar
Wirenut  Offline OP
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
Hi folks
Opened the oil filter the day before the race tomorrow as it has been awhile. I used to do it after every day of racing last season when the motor was fresh . Never anything much. Talking 3-5 passes.

This season I got lazy . Changed the oil as normal often but not the filter. There are about 40 passes on this filter. Motor has maybe 60 .

This looks scary to me . Thoughts from experience?

There is one other spot with a heavy deposit , but having a hard time loading pics from the track

image.jpg
Last edited by Wirenut; 09/11/21 05:20 PM.
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963038
09/11/21 05:27 PM
09/11/21 05:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
E
ek3 Offline
top fuel
ek3  Offline
top fuel
E

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,899
MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
looks like brass gear to me...

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: ek3] #2963062
09/11/21 06:42 PM
09/11/21 06:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
Originally Posted by ek3
looks like brass gear to me...


Good call........ and easy to check.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: fast68plymouth] #2963065
09/11/21 06:52 PM
09/11/21 06:52 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline OP
mopar
Wirenut  Offline OP
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by ek3
looks like brass gear to me...


Good call........ and easy to check.


Thanks guys.
Tomorrow I will be a spectator. I’ll drag it home after the race and get the gear out and let you know what I find .

Thanks for the opinion and giving me hope .

Gary

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963173
09/12/21 09:04 AM
09/12/21 09:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
i think bronze gear going away.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: lewtot184] #2963179
09/12/21 09:52 AM
09/12/21 09:52 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline OP
mopar
Wirenut  Offline OP
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
Pulled it out
Gear teeth look good . Bottom side of gear seams to have recess with a sharp edge worn in it

image.jpg
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963186
09/12/21 10:10 AM
09/12/21 10:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,050
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
master
HardcoreB  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,050
Shelby Twp. Mi
Good of you to cut the filter open!

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: HardcoreB] #2963195
09/12/21 10:43 AM
09/12/21 10:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,627
anywhere@ anytime
A
actionange Offline
top fuel
actionange  Offline
top fuel
A

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,627
anywhere@ anytime
What does the bushing look like in the block?

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: actionange] #2963226
09/12/21 12:52 PM
09/12/21 12:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
do you have a collar on the distributor shaft trying to control end play?

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: lewtot184] #2963261
09/12/21 02:43 PM
09/12/21 02:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
End play is not the culprit ... you have "similar" metals in friction contact with each other. If you'd had a thin steel torrington washer between the gear and the bushing you wouldn't have had this problem.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Stanton] #2963262
09/12/21 02:45 PM
09/12/21 02:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
And FWIW, that gear is still usable - just machine off the ridge and put a torrington washer between the two. The fact the teeth aren't worn means its getting along just fine with your cam.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: actionange] #2963271
09/12/21 03:39 PM
09/12/21 03:39 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline OP
mopar
Wirenut  Offline OP
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
Originally Posted by actionange
What does the bushing look like in the block?


Ok I think
I’m home now and can get a pick of it. One thing that did strike me was it appears to be flush and maybe even slightly recessed into the block . Not sure if I have any picks from the build that would show it

Thanks for all the thoughts

Last edited by Wirenut; 09/12/21 03:47 PM.
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: lewtot184] #2963272
09/12/21 03:41 PM
09/12/21 03:41 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline OP
mopar
Wirenut  Offline OP
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
Originally Posted by lewtot184
do you have a collar on the distributor shaft trying to control end play?


No

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963274
09/12/21 03:44 PM
09/12/21 03:44 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline OP
mopar
Wirenut  Offline OP
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
So when I had the gear out today I put some ot the debris chips next to it and they don’t look to be the same color . The debris looks copper to me

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Stanton] #2963276
09/12/21 03:51 PM
09/12/21 03:51 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline OP
mopar
Wirenut  Offline OP
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
Originally Posted by Stanton
End play is not the culprit ... you have "similar" metals in friction contact with each other. If you'd had a thin steel torrington washer between the gear and the bushing you wouldn't have had this problem.


Is there or should there normally be a steel washer under the gear? Could I have missed it in the rebuild? And if I did would it take this long to show itself?

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963284
09/12/21 04:33 PM
09/12/21 04:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
factory never used any shim between the gear and bushing. they had dissimilar metals. they only other place to get copper shavings i can think of is the crank thrust bearing. the thrust on the cam and intermediate shaft gears is down, but a worn bushing will allow for some thrust towards the rear of the engine in combination with the downward pressure.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963292
09/12/21 04:41 PM
09/12/21 04:41 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
W
Wirenut Offline OP
mopar
Wirenut  Offline OP
mopar
W

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
Pics in the hole
Hard to see but there is a symmetrical star or radial pater in the iron around the bushing
Thanks all for looking

95BD4B55-EA31-4268-8C58-732D8D78A96B.jpeg251388AB-570F-446F-AB96-FF732514C8FB.jpeg2FC03D10-B369-4343-BB4B-672671EA3C5A.jpeg
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: Wirenut] #2963308
09/12/21 05:28 PM
09/12/21 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
Originally Posted by Wirenut
So when I had the gear out today I put some ot the debris chips next to it and they don’t look to be the same color . The debris looks copper to me


I think you know what that means.

Although, the bushing is usually more copper colored than the gear.

See if you can get a measurement of how thick the flange on the bushing is, and compare to a new one to get an idea of how much is worn off it.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: fast68plymouth] #2963316
09/12/21 05:45 PM
09/12/21 05:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
sometimes you have to look at how far down the shaft is pressed into the gear. it's possible for the distributor and gear to go solid if the shaft is too high in the gear and the distributor tightened down. see if you have another gear, iron or bronze, to compare against. also if that may be the case it should show up at the collar on the bottom of the distributor housing. i've had issues where i thought the shaft was pressed too deep, so it may be possible for it not to be pressed deep enough.

Re: Copper in oil filter [Re: lewtot184] #2963319
09/12/21 06:00 PM
09/12/21 06:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,873
Ontario, Canada
Quote
factory never used any shim between the gear and bushing.


Factory never installed roller cams !! Solid and hydraulic cams are cast iron, gears were all steel - dissimilar metals. Steel gears against a bronze bushing - dissimilar metals. Hence no wear issues.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1