Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2948757
07/30/21 09:39 AM
07/30/21 09:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,828 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,828
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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They should make him pay for it, what is a few hundred million anyway...
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: 19swinger70]
#2948864
07/30/21 02:55 PM
07/30/21 02:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,416 St. Charles, MO
wingman
Uncreative Title
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Uncreative Title
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,416
St. Charles, MO
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Wow. What the heck is wrong with people? With all the "idol worship" attitudes that some people have in regards to members of the armed forces, I can tell you it has its share of dirtbags, jerks, and nuts just like any other profession. Just wearing the uniform does not make you a hero.
1969 Dodge Coronet Super Bee 383 A4 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 440 FC7 (sold)
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2948896
07/30/21 04:31 PM
07/30/21 04:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,470 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,470
Rio Linda, CA
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In 1989 there was a gun turret explosion on the battleship USS New Jersey which caused numerous deaths. The first investigation into the explosion, conducted by the U.S. Navy, concluded that one of the gun turret crew members, Clayton Hartwig, who died in the explosion, had deliberately caused it.
After a more thorough investigation, the incident was attributed to an accidental misloading of the gun.
The point? Let's wait 'til all the facts are in before condemning a sailor accused by his superiors. They could be wrong AGAIN.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2948925
07/30/21 06:52 PM
07/30/21 06:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
OP
Master of nothing...
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OP
Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,801
Benton, IL.
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In 1989 there was a gun turret explosion on the battleship USS New Jersey which caused numerous deaths. The first investigation into the explosion, conducted by the U.S. Navy, concluded that one of the gun turret crew members, Clayton Hartwig, who died in the explosion, had deliberately caused it.
After a more thorough investigation, the incident was attributed to an accidental misloading of the gun.
The point? Let's wait 'til all the facts are in before condemning a sailor accused by his superiors. They could be wrong AGAIN. You tagged me in that response and I just want to be clear that I only posted the article. And did not make any judgement on the matter.
Master, again and still
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: Ronnman]
#2948978
07/30/21 09:29 PM
07/30/21 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 70,126 Here
DirectSubjection
Tacohead. The First and Only
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Tacohead. The First and Only
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 70,126
Here
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I believe that was the USS Iowa. Ron Correct - the Iowa. It was never fully repaired
Ride eternal, shiny and chrome
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2949046
07/31/21 06:05 AM
07/31/21 06:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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I have previously read that there was minimum crew on the ship when the fire was discovered but I was alarmed that US Navy ships would not be wired with sensors to effectively detect fires and automatic systems to successfully fight multiple fires at once. Perhaps these sytems were disabled for maintenance?
Anti-ship missiles in vast amounts by potential adversaries have certainly have been in the news and the fires a hit would start would be extreme compared to an arson fire in below decks equipment. Navy crew members must be highly trained fire fighters, and be on ships with designed in fire fighting features superior to any potential adversary. Has the modern USA Navy forgotten this lesson from the battle of Midway ?
On the other hand, modern torpedos no longer hit the side of the hull. They explode below the keel creating a gas bubble that cracks the keel of the ship in half.
{The British torpedo that hit the former US Cruiser that Argentina renamed the Belgrano shows the massive destruction of a modern torpedo.} edit: Wiki says 3 conventional torpedos hit side of hull of Belgrano.
The only hope for a modern ship is to sink the ship/submarine/drone before it is in torpedo range, or launch mini defensive torpedos that destroy the incoming torpedo. US Navy attempts to create such mini defensive torpedos to protect aircraft carriers have so far been a massive waste of money. Penn State University has a grant to improve mini torpedo.
Last edited by 360view; 07/31/21 02:30 PM. Reason: correction Cruiser/Battleship
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2949049
07/31/21 07:10 AM
07/31/21 07:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,095 Berlin, N.J.
abodyjoe
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,095
Berlin, N.J.
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In 1989 there was a gun turret explosion on the battleship USS New Jersey which caused numerous deaths. The first investigation into the explosion, conducted by the U.S. Navy, concluded that one of the gun turret crew members, Clayton Hartwig, who died in the explosion, had deliberately caused it.
After a more thorough investigation, the incident was attributed to an accidental misloading of the gun.
The point? Let's wait 'til all the facts are in before condemning a sailor accused by his superiors. They could be wrong AGAIN. that was the Iowa. had a high school friend that was on it at the time, said it was a horrible scene. yes they railroaded a sailor that they said was in some kind of gay lover tirangle or some crap if i remember correctly. it was found that it was something to do with powder from world war II and how it was stored and or loaded. .
Last edited by abodyjoe; 07/31/21 07:12 AM.
It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. www.MoparMisfits.com
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: abodyjoe]
#2949060
07/31/21 08:21 AM
07/31/21 08:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,273 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,273
Here
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Seems very odd to me, a modern operating warship, could be totally ruined by a single sailor, when at dock, without any significant explosive(?) device, when docked at a US modern well equipped military port.
I wonder how alj the in the heat of the battle, under attack ships, ,far out to sea survived Japaneses Kamikaze attacks in WW2.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: jcc]
#2949069
07/31/21 09:09 AM
07/31/21 09:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 70,126 Here
DirectSubjection
Tacohead. The First and Only
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Tacohead. The First and Only
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 70,126
Here
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Seems very odd to me, a modern operating warship, could be totally ruined by a single sailor, when at dock, without any significant explosive(?) device, when docked at a US modern well equipped military port.
I wonder how alj the in the heat of the battle, under attack ships, ,far out to sea survived Japaneses Kamikaze attacks in WW2. Docked with a skeleton crew as I remember, only a hundred-something men on board so it could go unnoticed for a while
Ride eternal, shiny and chrome
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: 360view]
#2949085
07/31/21 09:46 AM
07/31/21 09:46 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,497 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,497
nowhere
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I have previously read that there was minimum crew on the ship when the fire was discovered but I was alarmed that US Navy ships would not be wired with sensors to effectively detect fires and automatic systems to successfully fight multiple fires at once. Perhaps these systems were disabled for maintenance?
Anti-ship missiles in vast amounts by potential adversaries have certainly have been in the news and the fires a hit would start would be extreme compared to an arson fire in below decks equipment. Navy crew members must be highly trained fire fighters, and be on ships with designed in fire fighting features superior to any potential adversary. Has the modern USA Navy forgotten this lesson from the battle of Midway ?
On the other hand, modern torpedoes no longer hit the side of the hull. They explode below the keel creating a gas bubble that cracks the keel of the ship in half. The British torpedo that hit the former US Battleship that Argentina renamed the Belgrano shows the massive destruction of a modern torpedo. The only hope for a modern ship is to sink the ship/submarine/drone before it is in torpedo range, or launch mini defensive torpedoes that destroy the incoming torpedo. US Navy attempts to create such mini defensive torpedoes to protect aircraft carriers have so far been a massive waste of money. The Belgrano was a light cruiser not a battleship. the rest of your statement is just about as far off too. I served in the Navy, did 4 years on a destroyer and time on other ships as well. I was there when the Samuel B. Roberts hit a mine and nearly cracked in half. Nothing automated would have saved the ship, the crew did that. The worst part of that wasn't the fire, it was the water used to fight the fire, they damn near sank themselves trying to put out the fires. We ended up sending damn near every portable dewatering pump in the Persian Gulf to them, then they realized they didn't have enough gasoline to run them for long, so we sent damn near all the gasoline we had in the Gulf to them. We learned two things from that, ships need more dewatering pump and more gasoline to run them. The main engineering spaces do have automated firefighting systems. The rest of the ship has the crew. People cry about the cost of military equipment as it is, then complaint about how it's not state of the art, without all the bells and whistles. You can't have both. A warship is a compromise, every single aspect of it is carefully balanced against needs and wants. Doesn't make sense to have a warship capable of fighting any conceivable fire automatically if all that gear leaves no room for ammo, or fuel, or provisions.
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Re: Sailor charged with arson
[Re: Sniper]
#2949144
07/31/21 01:23 PM
07/31/21 01:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,933 Oregon
hooziewhatsit
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,933
Oregon
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One article I read said that numerous issues colluded to make it much worse than it would have been at sea.
Because it was there under maintenance: Lots of doors were open and had hoses/wires/whatever going through them, so they couldn't be closed off to isolate the fire. Skeleton crew Lots of extra maintenance/cleaning stuff laying around that wasn't normally there, ready to burn. Fire suppression systems may have been turned off for maintenance.
Bad situation for sure, but not really relevant to what would happen at sea if a fire broke out.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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