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Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: Hemi Allstate] #2906831
04/05/21 11:13 AM
04/05/21 11:13 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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Thanks for the links, I can always count on the guys here.
I need some 4.50 + .030 pistons so they might can help

Last edited by cudaman1969; 04/05/21 11:20 AM.
Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: Hemi Allstate] #2908108
04/08/21 06:21 PM
04/08/21 06:21 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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How is your Hemi combo running? Does Modern sell heads or are they just a machine/head shop?

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: mopar dave] #2908148
04/08/21 07:47 PM
04/08/21 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
For a long time i have had a dream of building a Hemi for my A body. I don't know much about Hemi's except they cost a lot. 572 street/strip deal. This will be a long term project, but want to get the block and heads right away and collect the rest of the parts over time. Looking at two blocks, Bill Mitchell aluminum block 4.590x10.72 and the other the Indy Maxx aluminum block. The Indy is available in 4.500x9.980 also. Not sure which will be easier to fit my A body, but the short deck might be the ticket. Right now just curious to the quality of these 2 blocks and work need before assembly? Looks like the BM block comes with bushed lifter bores and is a little easier on the wallet than the Indy. Just looking for some opinions for now. Thanks


Instead of doing all that work (and spending all that money) why not just buy an aluminum block for your wedge motor? You'll be able to build a 572 wedge for a lot less money and it will fit easier in an A body. Just upgrade the short block and then slide it in there over the winter.

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: mopar dave] #2908163
04/08/21 08:20 PM
04/08/21 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
Yes, but i'm hearing that some had moved their steering box or the pass inner fender skirt needs modifying . Did the 68ss cars have inner fender skirts? I have a ton of questions on fitment and block pros and cons.


The passenger inner fenderwell/shock tower area has to be modified in order to get the valve cover off. If you just mock up the engine and heads in the car, the VC will come off fine, when you add the rocker stands, shafts and rockers, you have to lift the cover off pretty straight and this is where the inner fenderwell becomes a problem. The VC will hit it before you can get it over the valvetrain. The master cylinder is typically offset, there are adapters for this and the MC uses flexible hoses - you have to remove the MC to remove the drivers VC. Another thing is that you have to shorten the jacket on the steering column or it will hit the head. This is pretty easy, remove the jacket, cut it off shorter, add a new hole for the bearing and re-assemble. These cars originally had spacers between the K-frame and the frame to lower the engine - you will have to check and modify for correct bump steer as lowering the K frame throws the steering geometry off. If you are using a motor plate, I would remove the motor mount brackets from the K-frame for more header clearance and oil pump clearance, especially if you are running a dual line system.

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: 68hemiss] #2908175
04/08/21 08:53 PM
04/08/21 08:53 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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I can do these mods. I understand i only need about an extra 1/2" clearance on the shock tower/fender skirt. As for the steering column, i have an ididit column in the car with the cover shortened to the firewall. MC sounds like a no brainer. Thanks for explaining that, i really get it now.

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: AndyF] #2908179
04/08/21 09:01 PM
04/08/21 09:01 PM
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I agree Andy. A 572 wedge would be the smarter way if i just wanted to go fast. I want to go fast and look good doing it. You know those big valve covers with plug wires sticking out the top is super sexy. Always wanted to know what makes a Hemi tick and want to learn all i can about them. This will be an expensive project for sure, but will have plenty of money and lots of time once i'm retired. I think i'm gonna pull the trigger on the Bill Mitchell block real soon here. Still undecided on the stage 5 head or the Edelbrock victor JR Hemi head. I'm hearing more good about the Victor head at this point.

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: mopar dave] #2908206
04/08/21 09:47 PM
04/08/21 09:47 PM
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Mt. Eden Ky.
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
How is your Hemi combo running? Does Modern sell heads or are they just a machine/head shop?


Dave,
I think it runs good. It was meant to be street driven and pump gas friendly and it is. It runs 5.98s at 115.43 consistently @ different strips on different days with a Indy 426-2 and 4150 Race Demon RS carb. I switched to a 426-3 and a Holley Gen 3 Ultra Dominator . Out of the box pass for a base line was disappointing 6.02 @ 115.73 It was way rich,and I didn't get another pass in. So, since then I have been into the Dominator and improved it but no strip data. I do believe it is stronger. I have never had this engine on a dyno and I don't think I have optimized the ET potential of the car with only 15 runs total. It probably could use a higher stall converter for example. But, it is a lot of fun at a cruise . I think the Ray Barton intake is what I need for a next step up in power. But, I don't have room for it using an air filter.
I don't know if Modern sells the Stage V heads . I bought mine and sent the heads to Jeff K. (RIP) @ Modern back in 2009. https://www.moderncylinderhead.com/index.html The cam used is a solid roller for street / strip use from Dwayne Porter. I will provide specs if you want them?
The crank and rods are from K1 Tech. I believe that was just before Tom Molnar left K1 and went on his own ? 7.100 rods 4.5 X 4.5. bore and stroke . The CP pistons are from FHO 10.5 to 1.
I am curious what Bill Mitchell changed for upgrades to the World block. ?
I have really enjoyed this Hemi . I am glad that I went that route.

Mark



1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: 68hemiss] #2908236
04/08/21 11:45 PM
04/08/21 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 68hemiss
Originally Posted by mopar dave
Yes, but i'm hearing that some had moved their steering box or the pass inner fender skirt needs modifying . Did the 68ss cars have inner fender skirts? I have a ton of questions on fitment and block pros and cons.


The passenger inner fenderwell/shock tower area has to be modified in order to get the valve cover off. If you just mock up the engine and heads in the car, the VC will come off fine, when you add the rocker stands, shafts and rockers, you have to lift the cover off pretty straight and this is where the inner fenderwell becomes a problem. The VC will hit it before you can get it over the valvetrain. The master cylinder is typically offset, there are adapters for this and the MC uses flexible hoses - you have to remove the MC to remove the drivers VC. Another thing is that you have to shorten the jacket on the steering column or it will hit the head. This is pretty easy, remove the jacket, cut it off shorter, add a new hole for the bearing and re-assemble. These cars originally had spacers between the K-frame and the frame to lower the engine - you will have to check and modify for correct bump steer as lowering the K frame throws the steering geometry off. If you are using a motor plate, I would remove the motor mount brackets from the K-frame for more header clearance and oil pump clearance, especially if you are running a dual line system.

Why would lowering the k-frame change bump steer? Nothing changes except the distance between upper arm and lower arm pivots points, 1/2”? steering components stay in same spot.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 04/08/21 11:45 PM.
Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: Hemi Allstate] #2908377
04/09/21 11:58 AM
04/09/21 11:58 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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Don't know what your car weights, but that hemi runs real good either way. So, about a 10.5:1 pump gas deal? You can pm me the cam specs if you like as i'm curious, but i'm thinking something like 265 to maybe 275@50 with 11.5 to 12.0:1.

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: cudaman1969] #2908378
04/09/21 12:01 PM
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I should not have to lower the K anyway as i plan on using a T ram. Hood clearance doesn't mean much because of the T ram, but i may use that Barton short T ram.

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: mopar dave] #2908394
04/09/21 12:44 PM
04/09/21 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
Don't know what your car weights, but that hemi runs real good either way. So, about a 10.5:1 pump gas deal? You can pm me the cam specs if you like as i'm curious, but i'm thinking something like 265 to maybe 275@50 with 11.5 to 12.0:1.


Dave the CP pistons have a 1.37 CH and Tim said they were 10.5 to 1 . and yes it is a pump gas deal. It makes things so easy for street driving.
You are real close on the cam. up
The cam is .674 int and exhaust is .657 with the Stage V rockers 1.6 and 1.56 ratios respectively . Lobe lift .421 Duration @ .050 is 264 int. and 270 ex. LSA is 112 * .
This combo works well, and it is a handful on the street. If I were doing more strip than street I might up the compression to 11-1 and a little more cam, but then street and strip is a compromise and I will stay where I am with this for now.
On the strip it revs fast and I am often over revving first gear 1-2 shift. I need more seat time. work
Thanks,
Mark



1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: mopar dave] #2908398
04/09/21 01:00 PM
04/09/21 01:00 PM
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S.E. Michigan
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
Always wanted to know what makes a Hemi tick and want to learn all i can about them.


Yep, same.

I can't help much on the aluminum block selection as I only collected iron, because of where I used to work/once in a lifetime deals that came along.

There is alot of good information availble from folks here, I got plenty of excellent advice with mine.

One thing that almost got me is, the length of time it takes to get all the air out of the valvetrain. It can cause a little bit of doubt.
It was Exactly like Bob George said it would be, 20 years ago.

Anyway I did a similar combo with less compression and cam than you are talking about, in an iron block with Victor heads. I never had a HP goal but
am hoping for 600-something at the rear wheels. I deliberately left room to grow by not porting the heads, and by starting
with a smaller-than-optimal intake manifold. Fired 4-26-20 and now am getting the car ready.

Good luck in your quest.









Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: mopar dave] #2908437
04/09/21 03:10 PM
04/09/21 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mopar dave
I should not have to lower the K anyway as i plan on using a T ram. Hood clearance doesn't mean much because of the T ram, but i may use that Barton short T ram.


My last pump gas hemi made 986 on pump gas. Was 11.4:1, with a solid roller that was a decent size.... bigger then any of the others mentioned. The engine was 572 cubes and used a indy1RA head. Building a new combo now and i looked at the victor heads, and decided on the stage5 through barton..

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: cuda499] #2908446
04/09/21 04:08 PM
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Everyone is suggesting Stage V or the Eddy Victors, even the guys that have used Indy hemi heads in the past.
I really like the cast in pedestals of the Indy's, plus they have some big valve options, what am I missing?

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: powertrip] #2908462
04/09/21 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by powertrip
Everyone is suggesting Stage V or the Eddy Victors, even the guys that have used Indy hemi heads in the past.
I really like the cast in pedestals of the Indy's, plus they have some big valve options, what am I missing?


Eddy's cant be beat for the price, and if you want all the power buy the stage 5 millennium's. Indy's [censored] dont make the power, there is a million factors. I do like the rocker stands cast into the head as well, but you know all stage 5 stuff is hipped..... is indy?

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: powertrip] #2908463
04/09/21 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by powertrip
Everyone is suggesting Stage V or the Eddy Victors, even the guys that have used Indy hemi heads in the past.
I really like the cast in pedestals of the Indy's, plus they have some big valve options, what am I missing?


After I saw a couple of them with the pedestals busted off I stopped considering them.

Not sure how common an issue that is, but I do know for sure: I don't want to find out.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: Hemi Allstate] #2908465
04/09/21 05:07 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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Sounds like a lot of fun. Nice combo. Thanks for all the info, really helps.

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: cuda499] #2908468
04/09/21 05:14 PM
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I really don't know which head will make more power the Victor or the Stage 5. Is there a difference in performance between the two?

Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: mopar dave] #2908530
04/09/21 09:35 PM
04/09/21 09:35 PM

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The Stage V's for starters require machine work (porting), the victors are supposed to be good out of the box. Stage V was having a bad quality issue with the castings being badly pitted but they solved the issue.
My Stage V custom heads were sent out to me with the bad pitting (I have pics) and I sent them back and waited over a year to get new heads. The stage V's, according to Tim Banning, are supposed to be a much stronger material than the victors and my new heads
are very nice, all machine work done by FHO. Thankfully Eric at Stage V kept me updated as to their progress with solving the issue and was adamant that I get a quality product. Power wise, if the heads both breath the same volume than the power should be the same and yes, one
costs a lot more than the other.

Last edited by Superfreak; 04/09/21 09:37 PM.
Re: Would like some advise on 2 different Hemi blocks [Re: ] #2908543
04/09/21 10:04 PM
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Thanks for the reply and the info. They both look like good heads. I spoke with Best Machine about hemi heads and they suggested the Victor because of price and they come with bigger valves, but does bigger valves guarantee more flow in a hemi head? The stage V has a 168cc chamber and the Victor has 170cc chambers. Looks like the stage v head cnc'd flows 407cfm@.700 and the Victor flows 450cfm BM tells me. Its really hard to find much tech like flow numbers and such about the Hemi engine. Surprised there is not more info out there. Must be top secrete.

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